Have you been pulled from the bottom of your bed ?

a reply to: ColeYounger

"They" are the spirits. And why do they want to pull you out, I don't know. From what I have noticed with my own experience and others, the door is some type of pathway or portal for the spirits. Once an elder told me to not do a superstition related to our culture, being the young girl I was, I didn't listen. Well that same very night I saw something that has been imprinted into my mind till this day. Since then, I will most likely always listen to what the elders say.

A lot of this stuff is definitely hallucinations caused by sleep chems (see dmt) ...however, I recently had a sleep disturbance where I thought there was "something" else present... but would've written it off as nothing if I hadn't felt and seen a depression on my bedding where something invisible pressed on the bed.

It could still be an hallucination... I was awakened from deep sleep and there was a "psychedelic" feel, with moving patterns and intense colors (a light was on) ... but I don't think it was.

I have had the sensation of falling through my bed, as if it had just dematerialized. I have also had the sense of someone leaning close to my head and speaking to me while I was sleeping. Never been yanked by my ankles.

originally posted by: sayzaar
a reply to: sled735

Do you feel that you DO know what's going on ? On the one hand someone says 'hypnogognia' and on the other some say they ended up on the floor whilst wide awake.
I'd much prefer that it was some kind of lucid dreaming but realise that there may be more to it than that.
One poster mentioned something was trying to get my attention. Why ? Also, that does not really explain why on one occasion after being yanked by my ankles i remember nothing more until i become awake again feeling a very cold hand letting go of my wrist. I felt like i had been taken and then put back to bed.
I don't have any of the usual alien abduction symptoms/memories that people speak of in such situations and do not believe that would be what's happening, before someone mentions it

Yes, I know what's going on. I have had paranormal experiences my whole life, and I'm no young chick.
I had a ghost that scared me from the time I was six years old until I was in my mid-teens. Even then the paranormal experiences didn't stop.
These are evil spirits; I don't know if they are demons, they could just be mean human spirits. They like to scare people because they feed on their fear. So, the more fear they can cause, that's what they do. Maybe you don't remember any more because your fear caused you to black out.
If you had said you had a loss of time, then I would say abduction, but you said you didn't think it was that. So, that only leaves blacking out.

When I was 15 I stayed for awhile at my grandmother's house, so I didn't have to switch schools when my mother moved. From the very first night there I would feel something pulling on my foot, sometimes a few times a night. It was never a sharp tug, just a slight pull. The first few times I thought it was just a reflex, the cat or something like that. The only way I could get any sleep at all was to have a light of some sort on (This was torture as I prefer pitch black when sleeping). I never felt the foot pulling outside of her house - except for one night when someone wanted to wake me and thought it a grand idea to do so by tugging on my foot!

Years later while talking to family who had spent a night or two at my grandmothers, they have all reported the same experience - my stepfather saying he actually felt something caressing his leg. There were a great many things that I experienced in that house that I still cannot understand. To this day - 20 some odd years later I still sleep with my legs bent, I can't seem to bring myself to outstretch them - which is totally irrational now as I've never had a problem since moving away from her house, just force of habit I suppose.

Does this happen to you just as you are getting to sleep?

Is it accompanied by feelings of fear (maybe intense) with heavy breathing, fast heart beat, and the inability to move your body willingly?

Has it repeated, for example you get dragged out of the bed, only to end up back where you started, then get dragged out of bed again?

Are there any accompanying hallucinations; figures in the room etc?

I only ask because this all happened to me when I was about 18, whilst it was all happening there was loud siren type sounds going through my ears. I have my own theories as to what it was.

i have had two separate types of this phenomenon. i think one type was a spiritual experience but that was never repeated; thankfully. But when i returned from overseas retired from the service this sort of thing happened on a regular basis. it spooked me at first. i thought it was potentially spiritual too. but as it happened so darned frequently i figured out it was most probably a natural thing rather than a spiritual phenomenon. i live in oklahoma...this house's slab is built over fill. the bed springs appear to amplify oklahoma's natural mini-quakes. so at random i'll get the feeling of something shifting the bed springs as if something is there. I'm pretty sure this is earthquakes rather than some sort of astral nasty, partial astral projection or neurological phenomenon. i do believe in all of those things but this appears to be natural phenomenon in my case.

originally posted by: Rainbowresidue
I just love it when people who don't know me try to tell me what actually happened, and what I actually witnessed.

originally posted by: sled735
I hear ya!!

Just wait. Everyone will have their own experience someday, then their scientific mind will shatter into a thousand pieces! They'll have to seek out people like us to ask what's going on?

And I just love people who think that everything is paranormal, and can never use occams razor. There is a difference between being open minded, and letting your brain fall out your ear.

As I said, and which you both obviously missed, I have also witnessed paranormal stuff as well. However, those events tend to inhabit places and follow trends, they aren't “one offs” that just randomly wonder into your house and happen once in awhile. Also when something happens when you are in bed, meditating, or doing something with a high probability of your brain entering Stage 1 Sleep, chances are that it has a scientific reason involving entering Stage 1 sleep, or exiting REM sleep.

BTW... Stage 1 sleep is between being awake and asleep, you cannot tell if your brain has entered it without a polygraph. To be honest its even very difficult to differentiate between stage 1 and awake using a polygraph. If you've ever been sitting somewhere boring, and sort of “phased out”, or been talking to someone and started babbling nonsense, THAT was your brain starting to fall asleep. People also enter it frequently when meditating yet they think they are still awake.

Now with said, I have worked in a very old hospital, from the 1800's, where not only myself, but entire shifts of people witnessed paranormal events. I also lived in an apartment where there were problems. They started off immediately with smells, and slowly ramped up to being physically poked, seeing a “gray mist” moving around the place at random times, etc... They stopped after I got mad enough to tell whatever it was to “quit it”, after which it decreased to random occasional events of running into the mist from time to time, but all the more violent stuff stopped. I figured that it was just moving around and not bothering me or my stuff, so I just ignored it from then on. Also those events never happened outside that apartment, and ceased 100% when I moved away.

However the difference is that I don't attribute everything to the paranormal, I seek a logical answer FIRST. When you attribute everything to the paranormal, sort of like the folks who claim pictures of dust are “ghost orbs”, you lose all credibility as being someone who is even remotely objective. Now with that in mind, and from what the Op mentions here, he is describing classic hypnogognia. There are also a couple of members here that are describing Hypnopompnia associated with some level of Sleep Paralysis.

originally posted by: defcon5

originally posted by: sled735
What I experienced was not any type of hallucination! I was wide awake when these invisible hands grabbed my ankles and pulled me down to the foot of the bed. I felt the hands but didn't see what it was.

its not possible for you to make this determination. If your brain is in an altered state, you cannot asses what is real or not real, what perspective will you judge from? Hypnogognia happens in stage 1 sleep, where its common for people to believe that they are still awake as these “paranormal” experiences happen to them. What the reality is though, is that the brain is starting to fall asleep, and the chemicals that make you dream start altering your perception. Again, if your perception is altered, you are not in a position to judge if your perception is altered. That's sort of like saying you can tell me what the moon looks like accurately while looking through a broken telescope.

It very much is possible for her to make her own determination whether or not she was fully cognizant and awake, or if she was actually experiencing an altered state just like sleep paralysis.
I have experienced those altered sleep states many times and know instantly after finding myself awake within that altered state, that I am in fact, subject to one of them, so then when it has happened, I know within a couple seconds what is really happening and I can mentally "pull" myself out and away from that state, and get right up out of bed. I know not many people can do that, but I have always been able to mentally defuse whatever is causing it, and break free within a few seconds, but the point is, it is not impossible to make correct determinations of these things.

It is only "impossible" for main stream psycho analysts who have a profit driven reason to define it as impossible, to get academia and science on board with the compunction of a continuing income stream, and keeping a job, and keeping from being financially destroyed if they speak against these "payed for main stream theories"

I will give you a little tip: Becoming "fully unplugged" from ALL agendas that makes people on this planet continue to be slaves, is a lot more work, and costly in many ways, than most people are willing to allow themselves to make it happen.

This hypnagogic hypnopompic situation has merit and is a fact that it occurs, but it does not "OWN" everyone as the only reason or explanation as what truly happened.

Many people are plenty smart enough to make many determinations on their own, that others will reject and claim they aren't smart enough to know about, by saying the science doesn't support. Which is actually rubbish.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
It very much is possible for her to make her own determination whether or not she was fully cognizant and awake, or if she was actually experiencing an altered state just like sleep paralysis.

And you'd be wrong...
When someone is hypnotized they exhibit theta waves, the same as you would in stage 1 sleep, yet if you ask someone if they were awake, they'd you tell you they were. People who meditate also often go "in and out" of sleep, but believe they are awake the entire time.

By their very definition hypnogognia, hypnopompnia, and sleep paralysis are events that occur when the brain is entering a state of sleep, yet to the person they will believe they are awake.

Now, yes, someone that has experienced sleep paralysis in the past can determine from experience when it is happening again, but you still cannot tell what the state of your brainwaves, or brain chemistry, are. To someone that has never had it explained to them, or is experiencing it the first time, they would have no idea what had just happened, and would believe that they experienced something paranormal.

BTW... That is EXACTLY why for centuries people who experienced these events attributed them to paranormal events, which is where you get the legends of Incc/Succubi from as well as tales of things like the “gray witch”. Science has now explained the events, so people who experience them can only now recognize that they are natural. If that would not have happened, you would still believe that it was something paranormal that was happening to you.

a reply to: defcon5

Edit:
Okay, I re-read your last post, and give you credit with some of it, but the most important thing I am trying to get through to you on, is that some people are entirely intelligent enough to think about these events, and "discern" by aptitude and level of awareness, about what happened to them, as a naturally occurring event with a scientific and physiological cause and effect, or a real paranormal event.
But if you reject that paranormal things happen at all, then all of the above isn't going to help.

But we weren't discussing hypnotism.
I can see you are still plugged in too far, and aren't ready or willing to get away from it and so you will continue to tell others, and everyone else that they have no power to make any self determination, because you understand what they are saying happened, better than they do. A preacher and true believer for the main stream status quo!

CONGRATULATIONS!

I will be keeping my eye on you, and when you break free from your hypnagogic hypnopompic state that you are ALWAYS in, I will be there to shake your hand!

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed
Let me even further elaborate here since you're not getting it, and tell you that you now recognize what is occurring to you because you know (from science) what the symptoms are. You are not determining your “brain state” based on being able to tell what is going on in your brain, but rather by having experience with knowing the symptoms.

If that doesn't make sense, let try and explain further...
When you experience these things, you don't go “heck, look at my brainwaves, my brain is still in REM sleep, I must be having sleep paralysis”, you go “heck, I can't move, I see something in the room with me, I must be having sleep paralysis”... So you are making the determination based on known, and scientifically proven to you, symptoms, not because you can tell what your brain is doing....

No, you cannot innately know what your brain is doing anymore then you can innately know what your red blood cell count or exact O2 saturation levels are.

Right now, without checking it, tell me what your blood pressure is?
You can't because the same as brain waves, you cannot determine that without checking it on a piece of equipment.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
a reply to: defcon5

Edit:
Okay, I re-read your last post, and give you credit with some of it, but the most important thing I am trying to get through to you on, is that some people are entirely intelligent enough to think about these events, and "discern" by aptitude and level of awareness, about what happened to them, as a naturally occurring event with a scientific and physiological cause and effect, or a real paranormal event.

We're getting closer here, so let me try this one more way...
You understand that you are experiencing this, because based on the symptoms that you experience, science has explained to you what is going on. Right?

If you lived back in the dark ages, they believed that these events were paranormal, and the official “science” of it was that you were being “visited by a demon in your sleep”. SO... Based on the symptoms, if you lived back then you'd believe that you were being attacked in your sleep by demons.
Right?

See...?
So its not your PRECEPTION allowing you to determine the state of your brain to make the diagnosis, you're making your diagnosis based on the symptoms and what present science tells you they mean.
Make sense?
So what I told you, that “you cannot determine the state of your brain without being hooked up to a polygraph”, is true.

a reply to: defcon5

I edited my last post for you and added in some other thoughts for your consideration. I can see what you are doing to try to explain the whole ball of wax, but all of those scientifically backed explanations, do not support anything paranormal, and so if it really is paranormal, then that leaves the experiencer alone and wounded with an uncaring scientific community of those who aren't willing to help, because they are ruled over by a library of reassurance that things paranormal can't happen.

And I know already that this is not the truth about everything that happens, so who would be in the wrong?

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed
Go back and read this all the way through:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: defcon5

I do agree with you up to a certain point, and in those darker ages where everyone zealously pointed a finger at anything calling it paranormal, may have been quite explainable, but not in every case.

I do know personally even though it cannot yet be proven, that there are demons , and many other things that are enemies of mankind in the extreme, and other things that are not enemies to us, but can, and do cause a lot of things happening to the living as paranormal but are still unaccepted by the current paradigm as fact.

With that said, I also know that some folks who were absolutely dedicated to science as able to explain everything in life, and have had experiences in the paranormal, which destroyed them as happy and decent people, because it took away the scientific knowledge they had, and replaced that with something corrosive and damaging to their well being, so science to me is all good and true in much of life, but it has HUGE holes in it, and when subjects of that scientific community fall into one of those holes, the rest of that community leaves them under the bus to rot, which exposes that community as a false God.
Hey thanks for discussion so far, I like reading your posts and look forward to more
I gotta hit the hay...
Peace

a reply to: sayzaar
Yes, I have had this happen. I am 43 and I think I was around 26 when it happened. I lived alone in an old apartment building. I had just gone to bed, and all of the sudden something grabbed both of my ankles and pulled hard. Somehow my covers were moved up to expose my ankles and I was yanked. Back then I had a Semi waveless water bed and when whatever grabbed and pulled me ,the force made the bed slosh and made a wave.

I have never forgotten that night, and it scared the heck out of me, I thought maybe my Appt was haunted as I had not lived there long, but nothing ever happened again. There is NO WAY I was dreaming I had just gotten snuggled in on a cold Windy Winter night, just after I did that Ahhhhh, bed sigh.

I wanted to post this as I think it's relevant;

Not long ago my wife and I got in bed. We'd been lying there for a few minutes and both of us were still wide awake. She jumped out of bed screaming that she felt a hand on her leg, and she knew it wasn't me because I was turned the other way, and besides, it was towards her shins. She turned on the light and we looked around but she was adamant that it was a cold hand, she felt the different fingers.


Maybe it's a sport amongst ghosts? Maybe they think it's funny or something? Do ghosts get bored? lol

originally posted by: twfau
Does this happen to you just as you are getting to sleep?

Is it accompanied by feelings of fear (maybe intense) with heavy breathing, fast heart beat, and the inability to move your body willingly?

Has it repeated, for example you get dragged out of the bed, only to end up back where you started, then get dragged out of bed again?

Are there any accompanying hallucinations; figures in the room etc?

I only ask because this all happened to me when I was about 18, whilst it was all happening there was loud siren type sounds going through my ears. I have my own theories as to what it was.

It happens out of the blue, no particular emotions involved.
When it happens it is just the once, no repetition.
No hallucinations. I've never seen anything but have felt the hands on my ankles and wrist.

I would be very interested to know what you think was involved with your own experience.

I have a background in Psychology, and when researching sleep disorders I became convinced it was sleep paralysis; when the body is asleep but the mind experiences a mixture of the dream and the real world. It explained a lot of my symptoms; hallucinations (the dragging out of bed I count as a hallucination - but every now and then I'd see a man in the room), the fact I couldn't move my body immediately before it happened, and sometimes I would be able get out of the dream and end up back in the bed, except I wouldn't be awake because I'd get dragged out again!

It might not be the answer to yours, but I think it is worth looking into.