With any leak, you turn off the water before you fix the pipe

Perhaps the US government needs more plumbers as representatives and fewer lawyers. Both are important to society of course but one is overrepresented in government and the other fixes problems without ever needing to bend reality or the truth.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: MarlinGrace

Because our illustrious government has not created a verification system. The reason there is no problem with Canadian border because Mexico is 1000 miles to the south, and there is good paying work in Canada.

Exactly, if illegals can't get jobs or benefits they won't come because like the Canadians they won't have an incentive to come.

The problem is that congress and the lobbyist they work for don't want to stop a cheap undocumented slave labor force to be exploited. So what do they do, they use diversion tactics that takes away focus from the real issue (companies hiring illegals) and put focus on a scapegoat (Border patrol) that won't really fix the issue.

This isn't just Congress, this is every administration since I was 17 that I know of, and that was 39 years ago. This isn't businesses fault, no more than it is the illegals. The government can stop this anytime they want. Businesses want cheap labor, government supplies it, and the illegals know it. Hence they come.

Lobbyist don't go to DC to acquire cheap labor they already have it, but it's in small business that uses illegals, car washes, detail shops, landscapers, homeowners, ranch owners. etc. GE doesn't use them, Apple, Microsoft, none of the big ones, they don't speak english, and they are there for labor not anything remotely tech. They don't assemble cars or trucks they mow lawns, clean houses, lay brick, pour concrete.

The E-verify system , prosecution or offenders and other verification methods is the way to stop illegal immigrants.

E-verify doesn't work it only verifies that it's a viable SS number and not the person it is assigned to. But if our government could get off their butts and create a system yes then it would slow to a trickle, whatta ya bet that happens right after this new comprehensive amnesty plan.

You even have the American Farm Bureau saying that not only do they hire illegals, but they need them in order to survive.

www.fb.org...
The difficulty with E-Verify for agriculture in particular is we currently do not have in place a system that allows us to get legal workers. We hear stories from all across the country about the difficulties farmers have in getting workers who are authorized to work and if E-Verify is required of farmers

So they don't want to solve the problem so what do they do , they put focus on the border knowing that it won't stop the illegals from coming and it gives them an opportunity to make additional money from gov't contracts in supporting the borders and building the fences.

So they have had this leak for 39 years, more really my grandfather used to complain about it when I was a kid. Does it sound like they have ever wanted to fix it? There answer has always been the same there are no American kids that will work like this. I would love to find out I think they would be wrong.

originally posted by: derfreebie

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: Xcouncil=wisdom
a reply to: interupt42



MarlinGrace
I see you have explored this analogy in depth...
It gets convoluted I see

Yeah it kind of flows out of my head like a water leak. Sometimes it dribbles and sometimes I need the keyboard fast. But the interesting thing is we look at it the same way. Just like a water leak. Defined in it's simplest terms.

Twisted like minds are not only rare if not unique in threes--
it may be justifying the simple premise we're not the
twisted ones compared to our presumed judges..

The presumption would be.. they have a clear ability to judge.

Loved the row boat example, but you forgot the steady supply of batteries.

a reply to: interupt42

Well how can you blame obama if you blame the people that are hiring them?!?!?!?!?
Figure that out and you will get many more on your side.

I agree with you 100% tho, why are we getting made at the people just taking what is being offered to them?

a reply to: MarlinGrace

This isn't just Congress, this is every administration since I was 17 that I know of, and that was 39 years ago. This isn't businesses fault, no more than it is the illegals. The government can stop this anytime they want. Businesses want cheap labor, government supplies it, and the illegals know it. Hence they come.

Totally agree and that was my point , neither side want's to fix it. I wasn't try to pin the blame on the Reps or the Dems but rather both.

Lobbyist don't go to DC to acquire cheap labor they already have it, but it's in small business that uses illegals, car washes, detail shops, landscapers, homeowners, ranch owners

Yes lobbyist already have it but they also want to keep it that way as they are by far the largest abuser of using illegal immigrants. Also small business doesn't have the money to sway (lobby) congress on the regulations that allow for illegals to come. The large lobbyist is what is keeping the issue from getting fixed and congress (whether Rep or Dem controlled) is what is making sure that it doesn't get fixed by proposing distractions such as putting focus on the borders and not the business that hire them.

The Agricultural industry couldn't even survive without them and they aren't even publicly shy about admitting it.

The American Farm Bureau:
www.fb.org...

The difficulty with E-Verify for agriculture in particular is we currently do not have in place a system that allows us to get legal workers.


We hear stories from all across the country about the difficulties farmers have in getting workers who are authorized to work and if E-Verify is required of farmers

GE doesn't use them, Apple, Microsoft, none of the big ones, they don't speak english, and they are there for labor not anything remotely tech

No , but that is a whole different and in my opinion bigger problem. They use temporary skilled legalized foreign workers with h1 visas to replace the high paying jobs with low pay. You can't compete salary wise with someone who has a much lower cost of living than you. You watch once the economy totally crashes and our standard or living drops to the bottom , than you will see companies all the sudden finding enough skilled workers in the US.

Its all about the money and finding the cheapest cost of doing business and the highest profit margin. Which I have no problems with, the part I have a problem with is : The private industry with the biggest dollars are buying our gov't off and creating the rules to their benefit. In essence the big Oligopolies control the consumer and the market.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: MarlinGrace

This isn't just Congress, this is every administration since I was 17 that I know of, and that was 39 years ago. This isn't businesses fault, no more than it is the illegals. The government can stop this anytime they want. Businesses want cheap labor, government supplies it, and the illegals know it. Hence they come.

Totally agree and that was my point , neither side want's to fix it. I wasn't try to pin the blame on the Reps or the Dems but rather both.

Lobbyist don't go to DC to acquire cheap labor they already have it, but it's in small business that uses illegals, car washes, detail shops, landscapers, homeowners, ranch owners

Yes lobbyist already have it but they also want to keep it that way as they are by far the largest abuser of using illegal immigrants. Also small business doesn't have the money to sway (lobby) congress on the regulations that allow for illegals to come. The large lobbyist is what is keeping the issue from getting fixed and congress (whether Rep or Dem controlled) is what is making sure that it doesn't get fixed by proposing distractions such as putting focus on the borders and not the business that hire them.

The Agricultural industry couldn't even survive without them and they aren't even publicly shy about admitting it.

The American Farm Bureau:
www.fb.org...

The difficulty with E-Verify for agriculture in particular is we currently do not have in place a system that allows us to get legal workers.

This is what I was trying to say, E-Verify only verifies the validity of the SS number, nothing else. What this causes is Jaun's income is just charged to Mrs. Smith's SS number, if it puts her in a higher tax bracket she has to fight that with the IRS, but the government doesn't care they get our tax money either way. You don't need E-Verify to hire legal employees because there is no distinction between legal and illegal in the system. When you dial the verification number it just says yes that is a good number, not that it belongs to so and so. It's just flat out nuts.


We hear stories from all across the country about the difficulties farmers have in getting workers who are authorized to work and if E-Verify is required of farmers

GE doesn't use them, Apple, Microsoft, none of the big ones, they don't speak english, and they are there for labor not anything remotely tech

No , but that is a whole different and in my opinion bigger problem. They use temporary skilled legalized foreign workers with h1 visas to replace the high paying jobs with low pay. You can't compete salary wise with someone who has a much lower cost of living than you. You watch once the economy totally crashes and our standard or living drops to the bottom , than you will see companies all the sudden finding enough skilled workers in the US.

Its all about the money and finding the cheapest cost of doing business and the highest profit margin. Which I have no problems with, the part I have a problem with is : The private industry with the biggest dollars are buying our gov't off and creating the rules to their benefit. In essence the big Oligopolies control the consumer and the market.

The problem isn't H1 visas the cap is 85,000, the problem is the 12,000,000 illegals being a burden to the overall system. Hospitals, schools, jobs, social services, SNAP, WIC, everything. That's what's killing us and our own people that really need the help. But I think we are close to having had enough, my mom lives in Murrieta and if those folks are protesting things are bad, they have a very large retirement community.

Changes are coming I just hope its not through violence.

To my friends that say fixing the border isn't the fix, but stopping the incentive to come "work" here is.
I have agreed with that for decades
However, over those decades something has changed
Its more beneficial to come here not work and just receive the benefits of this nanny state.
And those benefits then create more incentive to work illegally

So, you can come here, get healthcare and food assistance, housing assistance and if you get employment that isn't reported to and taxed by the government, you can keep on receiving the benefits provided by the legal tax payers.

Yes the system NEEDS repair.

The repairs must begin with shutting off the flow at the border.
The idea that just reducing the incentive by punishing the employers that give work to the productive members of these illegals is good, but what about eliminating the social services provided to people that have come here illegally?
I'd think that would also make a lot of sense.
Like you guys have said, way to many incentives that make us look like a nice homeless shelter.

Its like another analogy I like to use

Stray cats.
If you keep feeding them, they will keep coming back, and they will bring their friends.
And again, if you build a big enough wall, the cats will stop coming and you only have to deal with the ones that are already here.

Stop the illegal flow across the border.
!!!!!!!!!

a reply to: Xcouncil=wisdom

Its more beneficial to come here not work and just receive the benefits of this nanny state.

So, you can come here, get healthcare and food assistance, housing assistance and if you get employment that isn't reported to and taxed by the government, you can keep on receiving the benefits provided by the legal tax payers.

Again lets look at Canada.

1. Are we Americans going by the tens of millions to Canada illegally each year to feed of their free healthcare and benefits? Do they offer healthcare to illegals or Canadian citizens?


The only way to stop the problem is to not give them incentives to come.

Is it harder to try to stop the tens of millions via thousands of miles of entry to the country or prosecute the companies that are giving them purpose to come here.


So why isn't there such a HUGE CRISES on the American and Canadian border despite the more lax border regulations and fewer man power?

We have the same problem here in South Africa. We have though millions of foreigners pouring in. As the USA might appear to be the shining light in the central and Northern Americas; South Africa is the shining light of Africa.

This will never end as long as our society is governed by the rules which support Capitalism.

Yet another problem paperless money would solve.

I would not mind if leaky pipes dripped tasty tacos. That is not a statement meant to be misunderstood as racist. I have considered going the other direction, illegally.

a reply to: Xcouncil=wisdom

The way you've constructed your post, from the spelling errors to the syntax, speaks to the level of intelligence I've come to expect of individuals who hold such views.

originally posted by: ExquisitExamplE
a reply to: Xcouncil=wisdom

The way you've constructed your post speaks to the level of intelligence I've come to expect of individuals who hold such views.

Why thank you!
its nice have to my noted intelligence expert making me on subject obvious

a reply to: Xcouncil=wisdom

I'm glad you can respond to an insult with humor, that's a good quality, and forgiving.

Without getting too into it, in my estimation, there are many more pressing problems with American governance than this border issue, which would actually be much less of an issue if our foreign pocily had been different in the 70's and 80's.

Let me make this abundantly clear by emboldening it: Many of the impoverished people entering the south-western United States have been displaced as a direct result of American foreign policy in Central America in the past half-century.

Ask Oliver North about it. Couple that with the fact that America has enacted this ridiculous "War on Drugs", which severely penalizes certain individuals for narcotics trafficking, while at the same time actually making it easy for others to traffic narcotics, the money from which they funnel and launder for other no-doubt unsavory projects.

Given all that, I'm not sure that we, as average Americans, don't actually owe them something, despite having no hand in any of their poverty.