LGBT ... And My Personal Brick Wall

I adopted the label "bigot" today. Thank the Lord that this is an anonymous site, as I might not have otherwise had the courage to come out in public with this. I guess that also makes me a coward to some degree, which is another label I may not have easily ascribed myself.

I wasn't really focused on this. Something stuck though. I do recall some deeper thinking on the news I read about the Chase survey. I came to the conclusion I could not 'honestly' answer in a way which would preserve my employment, were I to be presented with this question by my own employer. I am neither a "member" nor an "ally" of the LGBT community.

I always thought it was enough to simply not judge. But, apparently that's not enough. I, therefore accept that I 'must' be anti-LGBT ... because that's the only apparent choice I'm left with. It doesn't really matter that I am not concerned with what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own space. It doesn't matter that my bother-in-law is openly gay and I don't condemn him for it. It doesn't matter that one of my 'close five' bats for both teams and we don't judge each other.

What seems to matter, is that I have not self-identified as an ally of the LGBT community ... in the eyes of the Chase Manhattan Bank. Their stance is an obvious "with us, or against us" position. Backed against the wall, I guess, I'm now against. It doesn't 'feel' right.

I can't recall ever asking this community for help, but I think I need it right now.

a reply to: Snarl

# Chase and don't be a fool.
your "close five"? Your brother in law? Sounds like family to me...

a reply to: Thorneblood

If there's not one other reply in this thread ... I thank you for that. This has really weighed heavily on me, and coming from you, that is a tremendous burden that has just been lifted from my soul.

After finding out more about this, I have changed my opinion on this survey. It's an OPTIONAL annual survey. If people don't want to fill it out, don't. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Original post:
I think this question AND the one about being a member of the LGBT community have NO place on the form. They are as personal as you can get.

IF this is true, I think both questions should be removed. It's ridiculous and no one's business.

Just because you're not an "ally" doesn't mean you're a bigot. There is such a stance as "neutral".

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

My apologies. You'll never hear another word from me about it. The mods can 404 this thread at their discretion.

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

My apologies. You'll never hear another word from me about it. The mods can 404 this thread at their discretion.

What? I don't understand this response...

a reply to: Snarl

Well... I think it is perspective that is your problem at the moment. If you believe that human rights, and other sundry laws, apply universally to all human beings regardless of sexual preference, religious persuasion, skin colour, and politics, then you could be termed as an ally of the LGBT community.

It depends how you really feel about the issues. I would say, that if you are not against LGBT persons, and them having rights, but are not rampant in that feeling, then you are an ally for them, because the only people who aren't, are those who oppose their very existence, and therefore anything that legitimises their existence in the eyes of the majority.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
I think this question AND the one about being a member of the LGBT community have NO place on the form. They are as personal as you can get.

IF this is true, I think both questions should be removed. It's ridiculous and no one's business.

Just because you're not an "ally" doesn't mean you're a bigot. There is such a stance as "neutral".

I think the OP misunderstood your reply.
I think your answer is a good one.
The Chase survey stepped over the line. I wonder why this is even being asked about?

originally posted by: butcherguy
The Chase survey stepped over the line. I wonder why this is even being asked about?

I don't know about the "ally" question, other than to prevent LGBT "bullying" in the workplace. As regards the other question, it's highly personal and no one's business, akin to "Are you married"? Chase Bank may want to be able to say, "We employ some number of LGBT people, so we're great"... Maybe they're wanting to jump on the bandwagon.

I see in the news that Burger King is wrapping their whoppers in rainbow paper to show solidarity with the LGBT community. I'm the first one to stand up and say that I AM an ally. A very strong one. But even I found this patronizing and weird.

a reply to: TrueBrit

It didn't 'come off' that way to me. I don't consider heterosexuals worthy of any special rights or considerations. I can't justify 'LGBT rights' in the same regard.

If you've got a problem with my brother-in-law, you've got a problem with his whole family ... and I don't care if your problem is with his sexual orientation or something else. He's family.

If you've got a problem with my bi-sexual friend ... you might have a problem with me. I don't automatically come to someone's aid just because they're on my 'friend's list.' It wouldn't be wise to pick on him "just because." If you called him a name, based on him making a pass at you, he has to deal with that.

Maybe I'm still a bit conflicted.

a reply to: Snarl

Here's the only thing you need to remember to absolve yourself of guilt or responsibility.

Do you judge and confront others for their sexual orientation or identity?

No?

Do you consider sexuality to be something that's important, when determining your opinions of any given person?

No?

Then you are not a bigot. Doesn't matter if you aren't an ally.

I myself am gay. I dislike, almost to the point of loathing, the LGBT community, because much like any other organization it's been taken over by extremists. They use extremist language and take issue with non issues all the time.

Just as their counter parts do on the right. The reason this happens is simple!

If ya can't beat 'em, the adopt their tactics.

Don't let anybody tell you how to define yourself and what labels you can or cannot apply.

Forgo the label part altogether, you feel better.

-tenth

Has this actually been verified true or not. It's a Brietbart news story which is obviously Far Right Wing stuff that could all just be BS.

If it is true I'm wondering WTF business is it of Chase Bank whether you're an ally of the LGBT crowd or not??? What if you don't agree with Gay Men but think Lesbian Woman Rock, then what would they say????

Snarl, I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

Funny thing...they never ask my sexual preference when I go to deposit money. I think they take LGBT money all day long. I'm like the OP...I'm pretty much neutral about the issue, and don't like to be forced into a preset "stance". It's on a case by case basis for me.

a reply to: Snarl

I think that we are all allied in the search for justice, everyone of us, I find solace in that; I dunno, maybe it'll work for you too.

an... "ally"? Thats a bit of a strong word...

originally posted by: mOjOm
Has this actually been verified true or not. It's a Brietbart news story which is obviously Far Right Wing stuff that could all just be BS.

Agreed. I find it hard to believe that in this day and age, a corporation would put that question on a form. But with every other crazy thing that's happening in this country, I suppose it's possible.

a reply to: Snarl

Employee surveys are optional and one can opt out or not complete a started survey.

I don't ever take them because they are usually idiotic and always have questions which could be construed as worded wrong by my own standards. Usually employers create them so they can get ideas of demographics and also what type of policies to hammer into people's heads.

In this case if over 50% of the employees stated they weren't allies of glbt then that would give the legal department the indication that there is a risk of discrimination lawsuits in the future. They would probably create more sensitivity training to cover their bases in the future.

Just an example.

It's all a liability thing.

Edit: Also notice how you never saw those kind of questions prior to the anti-discrimination laws concerning lgbt before?

Yeah not a coincidence.

The LGBT have lost their way. Politicians are exploiting them at the moment and teaching them that there IS a line in the sand. It has nothing to do with right or wrong it is just a political spectrum now. Members of the LBGT community (most that I see anyway) have forgot what it is like to see things differently than what appears to be most people. Now if they hear someone say something that is not agrees by what seems to be most people, that person is labelled a bigot or worse.

Acceptance of the LBGT community was going good and they had all the laws they needed to protect themselves just like any other human. Now however it is being force fed to people and some dont like being told what to believe, think, or say. I am one of them. I have no issue with LBGT but I will fight them tooth and nails if they think they can bully me around.

LBGT have been reduced to common bullies. Sad really.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Then you are not a bigot. Doesn't matter if you aren't an ally.

That's how I felt yesterday. Now ... I'm struggling ... I kid you not. It feels like I'm being forced to 'pick' a side ... and there is nothing that sticks in my craw like being forced.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Agreed, all it comes down to is votes just like they are going to try with single women make them feel like they can't do any better unless they vote for the dems.

www.nytimes.com...

Can you smell it? It smells like election season is starting.