The NY Times Trashes Walmart. Walmart Grows a Pair and Eats The Time's Lunch.

Dear ATSers,

This thread showcases what I hope will be a growing trend in America. Facts are beginning to be brought out to fight malicious stereotypes. The excessive, emotional claims carried as clubs to beat down any discussion may now be threatened, and this article may be a milestone in that trend. I hope it continues, and I hope this is as much an encouragement to you as it was to me.

Not surprisingly, The New York Times (and many, many ATSers) doesn't care for Walmart. A columnist for the paper, Timothy Egan, wrote an article entitled "The Corporate Daddy." The Daily Caller link, below, discusses Walmart's response.

The response itself was posted on Walmart's blog and attributed to David Tovar, their Director of Corporate Communications. (Yes, I know you desperately want to call it obviously false and biased. Try dropping your banner and try showing that it's wrong. Oh, it's snarky, all right, but wrong?) I'll label The Daily Caller comments with a DC.

“Thanks for sharing your first draft, below are a few thoughts to ensure something inaccurate doesn't get published.”

DC The retail giant apparently couldn't resist sarcasm after it found what it considered numerous problems with Egan’s piece in which he criticized the company for paying its 2.2 million employees what he called “humiliating wages.”

“Walmart is a net drain on taxpayers,” wrote Egan in the missive. “We are the largest tax payer in America,” Tovar wrote in his edit. “Can we see your math?”

DC The company also chastised Egan for using vague statistics.

“Walmart disputes these figures, claiming the average full-time store worker makes at least $12 an hour,” wrote Egan.

“Be specific,” reads Tovar’s edit. “Full time average associate wage is $12.91.”

“But these numbers are skewed by higher pay for management,” wrote Egan.

“False: Only includes associates paid hourly,” Tovar corrected.

“The average ‘associate’ at Walmart makes $8.81 an hour – poverty wage,” offered Egan.

“Argument incomplete — in this study, starting wage 3 years ago was $1.50 over minimum wage. That’s a good thing,” reads Tovar’s red ink.

DC On the topic of veterans, Walmart has won unlikely support. First Lady Michelle Obama, who made veteran hiring one of her top issues, praised the company last year when it announced it would be hiring 100,000 veterans.

DC “Walmart is setting a groundbreaking example for the private sector to follow,” she said in a statement at the time.

Egan pointed out that Walmart reaped $17 billion in profits last year, that it’s highest paid executive earned over $20 million and that the six Walton heirs are worth $150 billion.

From Tovar; “Possible addition: Largest corporate foundation in America. Gives more than $1 billion in cash and in kind donations each year.”

DC Egan then cited an opinion poll to suggest that the public dislikes Wal-Mart.

“A new poll by Lake Research Partners found that 28 percent of consumers surveyed have an unfavorable view of Walmart – almost five times the negative sentiment felt for Costco,” Egan wrote.

“Pretty sure any corporation, politician even media outlet would like to have a 72% favorability rating,” Tovar responded.

DC Egan did not mention that Lake Research Partners’ clients are mostly Democratic politicians and labor organizations.

dailycaller.com...

No company is perfect, of course, and there are some who have a preference for paying more at "Mom and Pop" stores. That's fine, go ahead. If enough people decide to shop at the small shops, they'll stay open. If people want to shop somewhere else, then they'll close. I totally agree. But this emotional demonization and hysterical dishonesty about Walmart, or anything else, should stop for our own mental health.

It just hit me! Walmart has only done one thing wrong, all the rest has been invented. Walmart isn't unionized. Now I know why people hate it with a passion.

I expect there will be one or two comments. You can check the link first, if you'd be so kind. There's even more there. See you tomorrow.

With respect,
Charles1952

I can attest for starting out above minimum wage (only for myself of course).

A couple of years ago after being a stay at home mom and out of the workforce for over 11 years, my husband's hours got cut in half. I was left in a rush trying to figure out what I was going to do.

I tried Wal-Mart. I filled out an application and turned it in. I gave it two days then called. Still nothing. Desperate, I drove to Wal-mart at 12:00 am where I knew a 3rd shift manager would be on duty. I went in scared to death (been home too long) asked for them to page the manager. When the manager came up, I met him with a handshake.

I explained to him that I needed this job. I would do what it took if they gave me a chance. It didn't matter if I cleaned toilets or not. After a few minutes he wrote down my name and number. I shook his hand, thanked him for his time and left.

That morning around 8:00 am. I got a call for an interview. I was hired that day.

They started me out at almost $2.00 above minimum wage even though I had been out of work for so long and had no high school diploma. I got a dollar raise after my first evaluation and another after my yearly evaluation.

They were good to me. Very good. They gave me a shot when my family needed it most and I will be forever thankful for that. I made sure I worked hard in payment for that chance they took.

I think they get demonized a lot. But I think people overlook a lot of the good as well.

JMO.

They are a scape goat most of the time and they have every right to defend themselves against false statements.

There are aspects of their business model that one could criticize, but I do have to give them a nod of approval on the door greeters. Most, if not all of them are either elderly or mentally impaired people who would have no chance of earning a paycheck anywhere else.

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe
I read your posts and I must say that if you hadn't mentioned it, no one would have ever guessed that you didn't have a HSD, you are wise beyond whats on paper.


Unions are dirty criminal orginizations for the most part, their thug tactics aren't much removed from their mafia days. They want a cut of the pie.

WALMART DRIVVLE. SPARE ME.

The only reason I don't like Walmart is because it makes it harder for a little market or store to survive. These small businesses used to dot the streets before, corner markets were common in neighborhoods. These people made a living, they rarely got rich unless they sold lots of beer.

Now, it's getting more and more big corporation and low paying surf jobs. Some people will travel twenty miles to shop at Walmart and there will be another supermarket within a half mile.

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

I'm sorry but I'd prefer out armed soldiers not have the hopes of coming home and scoring a job at walmart, seems like that a bar set far too low.

Side note, Walmart starts full time managers in Montgomery county PA at 9.00... or at least that's what they offered me and 3 dollar extra to work over night. I declined.

a reply to: abe froman

Unions are dirty criminal organizations for the most part, their thug tactics aren't much removed from their mafia days. They want a cut of the pie.

Now that the US corporations are almost done with their "union busting", is the quality of life better in the US than it was 20 years ago when we had strong unions?
This is no mere coincidence.
It's a good thing we have benevolent corporations to look out for us huh?

originally posted by: Antipathy17
a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

I'm sorry but I'd prefer out armed soldiers not have the hopes of coming home and scoring a job at walmart, seems like that a bar set far too low.

Side note, Walmart starts full time managers in Montgomery county PA at 9.00... or at least that's what they offered me and 3 dollar extra to work over night. I declined.

Most of the Military is not educated. There is no way you could hire them into college necessary jobs. By no means are they stupid but you don't join the Army hoping that you get to be in the infantry.

a reply to: rickymouse
There used to be laws against monopolies here in the US, but I guess wallyworld has no monopoly, we still have Amazon!
But seriously, can you name any entity that can "compete" with walmart?
Good thing we can buy some of that free speech, I'm gonna talk against this "person" named walmart.

It's become fashionable for both citizens and media types to carry water for corporations, it's a curious thing. It's as if people are threatened that the age of unchecked capitalism and unabashed consumerism might be fading.

It matters little what Wal Mart, Tovar, the Daily Caller or The New York Times says. I come to my facts and opinions based on my own experiences...which have sucked.

Fact: No one I know, including myself, likes Wal Mart and only shop there if they have to. A circumstance created by Wal Mart as they drove smaller establishments out of business.

Fact: Even if you do not patronize Wal Mart, it still dictates your shopping habits. The price and selection of most staple goods is determined by Wal Mart simply because they are the single largest buyer, world wide. Manufacturers yield to Wal Mart's quality and packaging standards. For instance, toilet paper or paper towel producers.

As for their workforce, they look miserable to me. And state after state reports that Wal Mart employees are on their welfare rolls. The internet is rife with documented tales of Wal Mart workers.

In fact you can spend all day reading tales of woe recounting how some employee or supplier or merchant or town
was screwed by Wal Mart.

a reply to: charles1952

Great link, and great arguments.

My reasons for disliking Wal Mart:

- The product they sell sometimes has quality concerns. When that is food, it matters a lot. When its electronics....it is just choosing to spend money more wisely on a non-wal mart manufactured product (like the HP computers with the serial number ending in WR)

- My blood pressure cannot take the shoppers there. Seriously. Its like a huge swarm of locusts crowding into the store.

Everything else about Wal Mart is fine. And I do venture there occasionally.

a reply to: g146541

Walmart is not evil, it actually is a good store. It is not good for the stability of the communities to put all their faith in these chain stores though. They are efficient and because of this, they actually reduce the number of workers for the quantity they are handling. This relates to less jobs in the community as the other businesses close. There is only so much money to go around in these communities.

They built a big new theater here recently. That closed down the other theater within weeks of it's opening. The group that owned the other theater probably lost a lot of money and won't be doing anymore investing in the area. The company who put in this new theater is not from around here, so the money leaves, I suppose the same happened with the one that closed, it was an investment from outside the area. The heads of these cities are stupid. They should try to get locally owned and operated businesses so the money remains in the community. Instead they look at tax revenue, giving these giant stores and business really low taxes for many years...at which time they pull out and go somewhere else.

I am more against putting large stores outside of a distance you can walk to them than anything else. When you have to jump in a car to go to the store, it costs you money. People do not take this into consideration. They will drive twenty miles total to save a couple of dollars, loosing overall.

a reply to: kosmicjack
Damn but you touched on a point I was going to, but I had to make my bride some coffee and toast before I rushed her of to her job.
She is one of those that are happy in their chains, I'm glad the master retired me!
On the Times and Walmart...
I believe the biggest story was missed!
As this is a conspiracy theory entertainment website, let's look for a conspiracy shall we???
I do not know who the writer is who wrote the walmart "hit piece" or if he has a reputation to keep up.
My guess being a journalist nowadays, maybe not. we have readers, not reporters anymore for the greatest part.
But just theorize with me here...
Walmart profits are down and they need some publicity, Someone sets up an easily refutable article in a MAJOR paper.
CEO comes along and sprinkles sunshine and rainbows on the bad dark article and makes it sparkle!
Public being addicted to remote conflict as evidenced by the sheer mass number of "reality shows", eats up the counter hit piece and says, "What a great bunch of guys that Walmart is"!!!
If this reporter was in fact a journalist, why did he not dig into the real dirt surrounding Walmart and find the real bodies??
For instance where Walmart pays off politicians to ...umm... "expedite" new store sites..
Much more dirty crap can be dug up with a simple Google search.
I see a conspiracy theory here.
Everybody I know as well hates Walmart too, for the reasons you post and more!

a reply to: rickymouse
You say...

Walmart is not evil

Aaaaand, you lost me right there!!
A child entering the first grade can see that ANY and EVERY corporation at the heart HAS to be a psychopathic, sociopathic entity to survive, the truly evil ones THRIVE.
Are you trying to tell me the quality of life is up from 20-30 years ago here in the US???
Now go ahead and tell me how benevolent corporations are...

a reply to: rockn82

Many people join the military for the education. You have to have a HSD at least to be considered. That or a GED with college courses for credit hours.

originally posted by: rickymouse
The only reason I don't like Walmart is because it makes it harder for a little market or store to survive. These small businesses used to dot the streets before, corner markets were common in neighborhoods. These people made a living, they rarely got rich unless they sold lots of beer.

Now, it's getting more and more big corporation and low paying surf jobs. Some people will travel twenty miles to shop at Walmart and there will be another supermarket within a half mile.

I've lived in various countries where there are supermarkets that just sell food and countries where there are hypermarkets that sell *everything*. Where the supermarkets just concentrate on selling food, there are all sorts of specialist stores that sell everything from high-end music equipment to gaming PC's, house lighting, furniture.
When there are hypermarkets, all those shops just disappear because nobody has the time to go across.

It seems to be as case of "if we can buy something cheap at the hypermarket, then we don't need to drive over to the specialist store" and so they go out of business.

My personal issue with Walmart is that these days (within the past few years), they've adopted the now common practice of making all of their hourly associates part-time workers, working just enough under so they don't have to offer benefits, etc. Sure, the pay rate may average $12 an hour, but when you're only getting 20 hours a week, you're still going to be forced to have another job, etc. And that other job will also be part time, so even though you work over 40 hours a week, no benefits for you. It's Obamacare, and that system is completely jacked.

Quality wise. You get what you pay for. That said, you can find some good deals, and even some quality at Walmart. They have HUGE purchasing power. Which then gets to the other thing that people hate about it. Due to this ability, it drives any small business selling the same things, out of business. Well, that's really just society, not Walmart. Only way for a small business to make it is to sell niche products or services. Something the big guys can't or won't sell.

While you can save some money, it is a horrible shopping experience though. Good if you are getting some specific things and getting the hell out, but man, I go crazy inside that store, and quickly need to just get out. Probably because for some reason, some families feel the need to bring THE ENTIRE FAMILY to the outing, where they proceed to completely clog the aisles instead of actually shopping.

People have quite a revisionist memory.
Those mom and pop stores were frequently out of stock or just plain didn't carry things that you would want, the prices were (and still are at the few still around) jacked way up and the few employees they hired made minimum wage or less if they were paid under the table.

a reply to: Gazrok

Sure, the pay rate may average $12 an hour, but when you're only getting 20 hours a week, you're still going to be forced to have another job, etc. And that other job will also be part time, so even though you work over 40 hours a week, no benefits for you.

Best of all, between the 2 companies they can work you 79 hours a week for the slave wage and NEVER have to pay out any overtime!
I don't think corporations would have engineered this intentionally, it must just be an unfortunate coincidence, right?
Gotta have that second job to pay the MANDATORY health care.