Male faces 'buttressed against punches' by evolution

From BBC.com:

A new theory suggests that our male ancestors evolved beefy facial features as a defence against fist fights.

The bones most commonly broken in human punch-ups also gained the most strength in early "hominin" evolution.

They are also the bones that show most divergence between males and females.

The paper, in the journal Biological Reviews, argues that the reinforcements evolved amid fighting over females and resources, suggesting that violence drove key evolutionary changes.

Many people seem to reject this theory outright. The idea that our very bodies are designed for violence is undesirable, it suggests that under a thin veneer of civilization we are not that different from the animals. And the divergence between males and females adds another flavor of controverse. I guess it challenges the view that man is inherently good but corrupted, and that we need to return to some original state of innocence. There is a brutality that lurks in our past and outside the light of civilization, and we don't want to be reminded.

This is nothing new, even if this particular theory is wrong that doesn't mean our ancestors were pacifist hippies or something. We have the violence inside us, it's in our very fabric, our genes. Closing our eyes and disproving theories about jawlines won't make it go away. Instead we should open our eyes and look in the mirror. It's painful but it's the only way forward.

So do you guys believe these scientists are on to something or not? The apeman in me wants to argue with someone.

It seems to be the obvious answer.
Until someone comes up with something better, that is the conclusion that I would back.

a reply to: Subnatural

Makes sense

The more we unravel evolution, the more we see that a simple anatomical feature became that way from multiple pressures. Initially we thought the cranium evolved to protect the brain from injury. Now we see that other factors like mating, fighting and heat conduction play their part too.

The idea of fists for fighting makes sense too. Amongst the primates, they rarely use the clenched fist for fighting although they use some common wrestling moves and the claws. Humans do and we've been fighting each other since we could stand upright and go toe-to-toe.

It's also no coincidence that so many females are attracted to males with strong features; they signal strong bone structure.

BOOT TO THE HEAD

performed by the Frantics


PART I : THE LESSON


MASTER: Approach student, close the circle at the feet of the master. You
have come to me asking that I be your guide along the path of Tae Kwon
Leap. But, be warned: To learn its ways, you must learn the ways of your
own soul. Let us meditate on this wisdom now. So: Ohhhhmmmmm...

STUDENT1 (Ed Gruberman): Uh, sir! Sir! (Oo!, Oo!) Sir!

MASTER: Who disturbs our meditation, as a pebble disturbs the stillness of
the pond?

EG: Me! Ed Gruberman!

MASTER: E-Ed Gruberman.

EG: Yeah, uh, no disrespect or nuthin', but, uh, how long is this gonna take?

MASTER: Tae Kwon Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading
forever towards the horizon.

EG: So like, what, an hour or so?

MASTER: No, no, we have not even begun upon the path. Ed Gruberman, you
must learn patience.

EG: Yeah yeah yeah, patience. How long will that take?

MASTER: Time has no meaning. To a true student, a year is as a day.

EG: A YEAR??? I wanna beat people up right now! I got the pajamas! Yah
yah yah hwoom!

MASTER: 'Beat people up'...

EG: Yeah! Just show me all those nifty moves so I can start trashing
bozos! That's all I came here for! YO ASTA STA STA!!! Pretty good, ey?

MASTER: The only use of Tae Kwon Leap is self-defense. Do you know who
said that? Ki Lo Ni, the great teacher.

EG: Yeah? Well the best defense is a good offense, you know who said
that? Mel, the cook on 'Alice'.

MASTER: Tae Kwon Leap is the wine of purity, not the vinegar of
hostility. Meditate upon this truth with us. Ohmmmmmm.....

EG: Listen, shrimp! Now are you gonna show me some fancy moves, or am I
gonna start wipin' the walls with you?

MASTER: Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Tae Kwon Leap. Approach me that
you might see.

EG: All right! Finally some action!

MASTER: Observe closely, class. Boot to the Head! (SH-ZOOMP!)

EG (drunkenly): Owww! You booted me in the head!

MASTER: You are lucky, Ed Gruberman. Few novices experience so much of
Tae Kwon Leap so soon.

EG (quietly, to himself): Ow, oh, my head!

MASTER: Now we continue. Ohhhmmmmm...

EG: Hey! I wasn't ready! Come and get me now shorty, hah? Come on, are
ya chicken?

MASTER: Boot to the head! (SH-ZOOMP!)

EG (again, drunkenly): Oww! Okay, now I'm ready, okay, now, come on, try it
now.

MASTER: Boot to the head! (SH-ZOOMP!)

EG: Mind if I just lie down here for a minute?

MASTER: Now class, we shall return to our..

STUDENT2: Master?

MASTER: It is wrong to tip the vessel of knowledge, student.

STUDENT2: Many apologies, master. But I feel Ed Gruberman is not wholly wrong.

MASTER: What do you mean?

STUDENT2: I want to boot some head, too.

MASTER: Have you learned nothing from the lesson of Ed Gruberman?

STUDENT2: Yes, master. I have learned two things. First, that anger
is a weapon only to one's opponent.

MASTER: Very good.

STUDENT2: And secondly, get in the first shot. Boot to the head. (SH-ZOOMP!)

MASTER: You missed.

STUDENT2: Yeah. Well...

MASTER: You too shall be honored to learn a lesson...

STUDENT2: You don't have to, you know. I gotta be going...

MASTER: Boot to the head! (SH-ZOOMP!)

STUDENT2 (agonizing pain): Oyyy oy oyyyy.... Oh....

MASTER: Can anyone tell us what lesson has been learned here?

STUDENT3: Yes, master. Not a single one of us could defeat you.

MASTER: You gain wisdom, child.

STUDENT3: So we'll hafta gang up on ya! Get 'im guys!

(Master throws many Boot-to-the-head's and SH-ZOOMP's, and people are groaning
in pain)

MASTER: And now class, let us rejoin the mind to the body and gaze into
the heart of the candle of meditation.

UNISON: Ohhhmmmm....

MASTER: Very good, class.

a reply to: Subnatural

It is a fact without question, that repeated punching reinforces the bones in the hands and forearms, hence boxers being able to punch through a brick without breaking their hand.

If one of us regular joes tried this........lol, well your gonna have a hard time opening bottles for a few weeks.

Or the kickboxers that can kick a concrete pillar and not break their leg etc....

Why wouldnt this be cumulative over generations?

Seems very plausible to me.

a reply to: Subnatural

The idea that our very bodies are designed for violence is undesirable, it suggests that under a thin veneer of civilization we are not that different from the animals.

But we are animals.

If you wish to be disagreed with then I'm your man.

The evolutionary differences between the facial features of men and women has more to do with their divergent roles as hunters opposed to homemakers.

I have posted in the past here on ATS that aggression and greed are in our DNA. Dating back to when hunter gatherers were trying to be the one's with the biggest hunt or catch.

Only to be ridiculed by many on here.

Peace is a pipe dream and will never happen to the human race until an evolutionary process changes our very fabric of dna.

It is the way we are. I just don't get why people think we should and can live in peace and harmony. The past tells the story friends.

All of the politically correctness is only fueling the fire of hate. Onlythis time it is hate that is bottled inside until one absolutely explodes.

I read about this recently, science has now proved something that us women have always known.

It isn't by chance that we prefer men with certain attributes, such as strong jaws and broad shoulders, it is natural selection.

As for men being warmongering competitive aggressors, well history speaks for itself. However there are shades of grey and it is obvious some nations and cultures have got a grip on man's aggression by utilising it more constructively, such as in the West, instead of rampaging around feudalist style, it is channelled away from tribal style violence and used in far better ways.

That is probably the answer, give men some physical task to do and chances are he will have utilised his excess testosterone, excess energy and aggression on say, harmless building materials, or a football. As well as being too tired to bother being aggressive he will have hopefully achieved something worthwhile.

It is the age old thing of civilization requiring civilized behaviour while our genetics are playing catch up. But we know about it and we are able to manage it so we should, we should always be looking at constructive behaviour.

What about bone structure surrounding the nuts?

Evolution sort of left us hanging in the breeze there….

a reply to: intrptr

I believe 'keeping them cool' is fortuitous to the 'swimmers' and general good health of that area.

I have studied this a bit, the evolution of the human form etc and the general belief is that that area has to be 'ready for action' per se rather than tucked away somewhere safe. The arms etc are considered the 'defenders' of this area.

originally posted by: intrptr

What about bone structure surrounding the nuts?

Evolution sort of left us hanging in the breeze there….

That's funny!

Maybe it's proof women with their internal nads are more highly evolved?

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Subnatural

The idea that our very bodies are designed for violence is undesirable, it suggests that under a thin veneer of civilization we are not that different from the animals.

But we are animals.

If the power, water and food suddenly stopped, we'd tear each other apart in a very short amount of time.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Subnatural

The idea that our very bodies are designed for violence is undesirable, it suggests that under a thin veneer of civilization we are not that different from the animals.

But we are animals.

Yeah, that's true, I guess I worded that a bit poorly.

I wonder if evolution had anything to do with the skull structure of these guys.

The bony structures in their heads are adapted to protect the brain from the tremendous impact. Bighorn sheep have a double-layered skull honeycombed with bone struts to protect their brains during their impressive head-banging battles. Thick tendons link the skull and spine to help recoil from the impact.

bighornfighting.blogspot.com...

originally posted by: Psynic
If you wish to be disagreed with then I'm your man.

The evolutionary differences between the facial features of men and women has more to do with their divergent roles as hunters opposed to homemakers.

That's a possibility too, you do risk falling down on your face when you are out hunting. Or just getting slapped by a sabre-toothed tiger or something. Women would have been relatively safe, taking care of kids and gathering plants. IF the roles were divided like that, I'm not 100% certain. But it seems likely I guess.

I guess it could be both are true though.

originally posted by: liejunkie01
I have posted in the past here on ATS that aggression and greed are in our DNA. Dating back to when hunter gatherers were trying to be the one's with the biggest hunt or catch.

Only to be ridiculed by many on here.

Peace is a pipe dream and will never happen to the human race until an evolutionary process changes our very fabric of dna.

It is the way we are. I just don't get why people think we should and can live in peace and harmony. The past tells the story friends.

All of the politically correctness is only fueling the fire of hate. Onlythis time it is hate that is bottled inside until one absolutely explodes.

I agree, I like the idea that mankind has to overcome itself, we have to be better than ourselves. Of course that is easier said than done.

Nah,

I'm sorry. This just seems like an idea cooked up by people that have never worked in a field of medicine involving trauma.

The instrumentation, hardware and techniques for repairing maxillofacial injuries does not reflect the offered theory. Not only that, but human anatomy is way, way to diverse to be making a claim like that.

It's hogwash and the more i think about it the more "political" it seems.

If you are a fighter, the "buttressing" takes place in "real-time": it's called scarring, parenchyma and recovery from injury. We are adaptable to violence, not designed for violence.

a reply to: Bybyots

We are adaptable to violence, not designed for violence.

We have the ability to heal from injury, not exactly the same as being adapted to violence.

I don't have any real problem with this hypothesis but it does beg the question; how come it hurts our hand so much when we punch someone? If faces evolved to withstand punches, shouldn't hands have done so as well?

a reply to: Phage

They probably have, as much as that part of their function would allow. Their primary function being other than bludgeoning, that has taken precedent ie the ability for intricate tasks as well as heavy work like carrying and precision work such as spear throwing and tool using.