My Theory of 'radiation induced' evolution.

If evolution doesnt happen slowly over time, perhaps cosmic radiation causes mutations instead!?

At Fukushima there has been some mutations already, which appear to be non detrimental.

Normal within species mutations are usually negative.

Perhaps positive mutation within species and macro-evolution can be explained by a 'radiation evolution'?

Well, the title caught my attention.

Ill stick around till you finish.

Edit: Well life is adaptive by its very nature. "Adaptive Radiation"

I wont pretend to know anything about radation and genetics, but i could see rad sources at specific densities could be used as a controled mutation.

Its an interesting theory and one would like tor ead more about. It will have to wait till i get out of work.

Flagged for later.

My theory then, builds on evolution instead of trying to completely negate it, but tries to find a trigger to the effect of evolution, which I suppose to be radiation.

originally posted by: shaneslaughta
Well, the title caught my attention.

Ill stick around till you finish.

Thanks I hope you will check back, I must have accidentally posted it prematurely.

Thanks shane for the warm reception of my THEORY. I myself am interested in our origins. Perhaps micro-evolution within species is triggered by normal environmental factors and selective breeding.

For myself this still leaves huge holes in the theory.

It is possible that a virus could cause evolution, it could arrive in a meteor, pan spermia style, and then affect which ever animal it got in. I consider this to be a 'design change' and set that type of 'evolution' apart from Darwin's version also.

Not trying to derail, you just taught me a new word.
I never thought of it before, isnt it interesting that comets and meteros can "seed" life all over the universe via panspermeia.
Not trying to be funny, just an observation.

I thoroughly believe that genetic evolution could be advanced with radiation, hell it might happen natrually.
Thinking about all the stars and different radation they emit.

originally posted by: shaneslaughta
Not trying to derail, you just taught me a new word.
I never thought of it before, isnt it interesting that comets and meteros can "seed" life all over the universe via panspermeia.
Not trying to be funny, just an observation.

I thoroughly believe that genetic evolution could be advanced with radiation, hell it might happen natrually.
Thinking about all the stars and different radation they emit.

Well yes that's the point! Its still part of our environment... Space.

SO. If panspermia delivers the genetic material and if cosmic radiation helps to mutate this genetic material... These are huge insights in to how our own planet 'evolved' in to its current state.

Darwin's theory is in need of more information to ever become anything other than a theory...
Radiation and virus induced evolution are two possible triggers that could finally lead to a conclusion, on how animals truly macro-evolve.

a reply to: Lagrimas

Are you speaking of a defensive evolutionary response to virus? I dont know a whole lot about it, but its tuly fascinating.

originally posted by: shaneslaughta
a reply to: Lagrimas

Are you speaking of a defensive evolutionary response to virus? I dont know a whole lot about it, but its tuly fascinating.

horizontal gene transfer can change dna, a virus can therefore actually 'genetically modify' its host.

Which is why I mentioned design earlier. The design of the DNA is altered by the virus.

Technically an alien race could have given some monkeys a virus that gave them consciousness, from all the way out in space using some sort of long range probe and a specially designed virus, that changed portions of the monkeys DNA.

Forced evolution, using intelligent design.

Forced evolution, using intelligent design.

Judging by the scale of the universe i would say it could be highly possible there are "engineers" out there.

Maybe the container that holds the universe is the "engineer".

Im a hge fan of probabilites and the universe provides plenty of them.

Im going to shut up now as i can feel myself drifitng off topic again.

originally posted by: shaneslaughta

Forced evolution, using intelligent design.

Judging by the scale of the universe i would say it could be highly possible there are "engineers" out there.

Maybe the container that holds the universe is the "engineer".

Im a hge fan of probabilites and the universe provides plenty of them.

Im going to shut up now as i can feel myself drifitng off topic again.

Haha no, no! Nobody else has shown any interest in my thread, thanks for your replies!

Yes its possible that "God" is a metaphor (as is the 'infinite creator') for whatever it is that pumps out the 'stuff' or CREATES that which we know.

If your theory is correct.....where's Godzilla?

Checkmate radiationists!



sorry

originally posted by: Prezbo369
If your theory is correct.....where's Godzilla?

Checkmate radiationists!



sorry

Haha yes quite.

Something must cause the macro-changes though, so if Darwin's theory alone doesn't explain it, then perhaps triggers are a good place to seek out answers?

originally posted by: Lagrimas
My theory then, builds on evolution instead of trying to completely negate it, but tries to find a trigger to the effect of evolution, which I suppose to be radiation.

Without any observation and testing to come to this idea, it is still a hypothesis.

sorry but im a real scientist and a stickler for words.

So far you are on to an actual tenet of biology. Radiation does cause mutations, if you think of your dna structure as like bowling pins set up in a line from here to somewhere thousands of miles away and then thousands of bowling balls taking out everything in its way and knocking holes through this line. That is what radiation does to your body all the time. Even if you sat in a lead box ten feet thick, something would still be hitting you all the time.

Our DNA can repair itself though. We have even found the auto correcting parts of our DNA and it is similar to code written for computer languages.

Cosmic radiation like the sun and other stars, and even more local sources like; X-ray machines, MRI, CAT scans, even Granite countertops give off radioactive particles, (think bacon in a hot pan, or i like to to imagine radiation as tiny little molecular scaled bullets flying at you at nearly the speed of light. Shredding your skin.

At Fukushima there has been some mutations already, which appear to be non detrimental.

I like your use of the term non detrimental. Meaning it doesn't due harm to the organism. Most mutations are neutral, they bring no help or harm. and some happen in strands that aren't being used. (There are a lot of those. Remind me later. )

In an area like Fukushima, there is a dangerous amount of particles spewing out of there. (Think of that bullets analogy but on the scale of niagara falls) our auto correct can only do so much at a time. anything that tries to reproduce in that environment will have a high likelihood of
Passing on bad genetic information.

originally posted by: Lagrimas

originally posted by: shaneslaughta
Not trying to derail, you just taught me a new word.
I never thought of it before, isnt it interesting that comets and meteros can "seed" life all over the universe via panspermeia.
Not trying to be funny, just an observation.

I thoroughly believe that genetic evolution could be advanced with radiation, hell it might happen natrually.
Thinking about all the stars and different radation they emit.

Well yes that's the point! Its still part of our environment... Space.

SO. If panspermia delivers the genetic material and if cosmic radiation helps to mutate this genetic material... These are huge insights in to how our own planet 'evolved' in to its current state.

Darwin's theory is in need of more information to ever become anything other than a theory...
Radiation and virus induced evolution are two possible triggers that could finally lead to a conclusion, on how animals truly macro-evolve.

Darwin's theories were incomplete and although most of his observations were correct he didn't have a working knowledge of genetics, or DNA and so they are now outdated. No one checks there work against what Darwin wrote. We are way beyond that. He wasn't even the first person to start writing down these thoughts. He was a friend and student of Thomas Huxley. He was also an innovative thinker.

Which brings us to viruses which are just another way that our DNA can be modified. By the way, in the common process of our own cells dividing there are incorrect copies made somewhere around 10,000 every time.

a reply to: Lagrimas
interesting thought,but highly unlikely,IMHO. A genetic mutation in 1 generation would be detrimental theoretically.A bird born with 4 wings would not fly twice as fast,if it could fly.A one eyed cat would lose depth perception.A true valuable,or enhancing mutation,would take many generations to develop,and be inheritable thru them.A one time effect like radiation may not be passable thru the bloodlines,and even if it were,would it be a benefit,or could it cause extinction?

Micro vs macro.

It's all really just micro, but when a group of organisms gets divided from the main group they can change in different ways. Given enough time, they can change in such drastically different ways that if you brought back subjects from each lineage, they would no longer have enough matching strands to be able to reproduce offspring. This why we have to catalog them as dif species. Given enough time and drastically different enviroments or even food sources, these two lineages will begin to no longer look similar either. Then they are refered to as dif genus. But really these classifications are falling apart as we realise that there is really only one kind of life on this planet. We are just that diverse. a reply to: Lagrimas

How would you target where the mutation takes place? i don't mean body part but which part of the DNA sequence.

Gene therapy has the same issue, they can't target where the injected codes goes to... so a code for an "ear" will grow(if it actually grows) on the nose instead of the location of the ear.


The radiation will 99% of the time will be detrimental, because your going for a trial and error with a working body.

It will be like forming a pottery by blindly making scrapes in the wet clay, in hopes of it becoming a better pot than the original.

originally posted by: blkcwbyhat
a reply to: Lagrimas
interesting thought,but highly unlikely,IMHO. A genetic mutation in 1 generation would be detrimental theoretically.A bird born with 4 wings would not fly twice as fast,if it could fly.A one eyed cat would lose depth perception.A true valuable,or enhancing mutation,would take many generations to develop,and be inheritable thru them.A one time effect like radiation may not be passable thru the bloodlines,and even if it were,would it be a benefit,or could it cause extinction?

Genetic mutations are happening to you constantly. Just by the act of your cells dividing, or going out in the sun. When you have a child you are taking a snapshot of your current biological information. (Thats why older people are at more risk for passing on birth defects). While that child is forming and growing up, that information is still constantly changing.

Evolution doesnt refer to the changes that happen in one lifetime. Evolution requires reproduction. Everytime an organism reproduces micro evolution has occurred

Some very thought-provoking ideas here! I agree, it may take many generations before the entire picture comes to light.
We hear that wildlife around Chernobyl is flourishing, and very little genetic defects are being noted- but what about 100 years from now? Will scientists look back and say " That is when it happened"?