The Kaaba/Mecca connection to the Bible

I'll just be putting down a few points on the Kaaba/Mecca/the stone and their co-relation to the Bible.

1. Direction of worship
Jesus himself said that Jerusalems days as the center of monotheistic worship were numbered.
"believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem."

Mohammad moved the qibla (direction of worship) of worship from Jerusalem to the Kaaba. Today, 1.4 billion Muslims the world over pray in the direction of the Kaaba....5 times a day. No other spot on the planet comes close to being the focal point of monotheistic worship, as the Kaaba.

Also, the concept of a qibla (direction of worship) is not unique to Muslims. The Bible mentions that Daniel, prayed towards Jerusalem thrice a day, even when he was in a foreign country.
he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before. - Daniel 6:10



2. Cubical places of worship in the Bible
The Kaaba is not the only cubical structure that is associated with religion and worship of God. The Bible also contains references to cubical structures of worship.
In Ezekiel 40, we read of his vision of a cubical place of worship. The chapter tells us that what he saw was not located in Jerusalem, where the Israelites already had built their temple, but rather an unnamed city in the South. And we know Mecca is to the South of Israel.



In Revelation 21, the "NEW Jerusalem" that descends from heaven is visually interpreted by many Christian theologians as being a gigantic CUBE.




If this interpretation is correct, then it fits perfectly the Islamic teaching that the Kaaba is a replica of a similar structure in heaven. Funnily, some Christians have gone as far as claiming the Kaaba is a "counterfeit" of the cube mentioned in the Bible!



3. Pilgrimages and rainfall
Mecca is called "Bakka" in the Koran. "Baka" is also mentioned in the book of Psalms, as a place of pilgrimage.

Blessed are those whose strength is in you, whose hearts are set on pilgrimage. As they pass through the Valley of Baka, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools. - Psalms 84

Many years ago, I didn't think the passage mentioning rain and pools fit Mecca because I had imagined that region to be an extremely dry desert region, receiving very little rainfall. However, it turns out that once in a while the region receives enough rain to flood the entire structure! Mecca IS Baka!



Despite the evidence, this valley of Bakka and that place of pilgrimage remains "unidentified" or a matter of speculation by Christians and Jews. Some say that it actually means "valley of Balsam trees". Even then, a quick google search shows that Balsam trees grow wildly in the valley of Mecca!



4. The black stone
The black stone, which is not of this earth... is said to have originally been a WHITE stone, but turned black representing the sins of mankind throughout the ages. Interestingly, the Bible says the "saved" are given a "white stone",(an object that appears only once in the Bible). Some Christians interpret the white stone as being symbolic of being washed of sin...mirroring the Islamic idea that the Kaabas stone - when it was white - once represented a state of being sinless. But this is again, a highly speculative matter.

God knows best.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Mohammad moved the qibla (direction of worship) of worship from Jerusalem to the Kaaba.

... because the Jews and Christians in Jerusalem rejected his new religion and Muhammad knew he couldn't conquer Jerusalem, so he conveniently 'had a vision' in which God allegedly told him to move it to Mecca. Muhammad knew he had to have his religious center in a place that he could fight and conquer. Jerusalem was too hard of a conquest. So Muhammad chose a softer military target.

I didn't think the passage mentioning rain and pools fit Mecca

The old well Zam Zam was there for the caravans. There's your water ...

The black stone, which is not of this earth...

Is nothing more than a meteorite. That's why it's black. And it may not even be the original meteorite. The meteorite was removed by the Qarmatioans in the fourth (Muslim) century and then wasn't returned until many years later. It can't even be confirmed if it's the same meteorite or not.


The superstitious worship of rocks in Islam has it's roots in the pagan religions of the area. Islam did the same thing with stones that the Christians did with setting the date for Christmas. Islam incorporated the pagan stone worship beliefs so the pagans would feel comfortable with Islam and convert. Same thing the Christians did with setting Christmas near the pagan winter solstice celebrations. Same/same.

Pre-Islamic Central Arabia was tribal and all the tribes had their own gods. The gods were made of stone, and many were not carved stones but natural stones. They thought the stones had 'divine power'. The names of the two hills As Safa and al-Marqa signify a stone. Pagans ran between the hills to touch and kiss the Isaf and Naila idols on them. This pagan behavior has been incorporated into the Islamic Hajj.

Pagan worship of black stones is nothing new to that area of the world. St. Clement of Alexandria (190AD) said that Arabs worshipped the black stone of Dusares at Petra. Also Maximus Tyrius said that the Arabians worshipped a god that was represented by a quadrangular stone. This predates Islam by hundreds of years. That's where Islam gets it's giant cube from ... pagan roots. Hubal was worshipped at Mecca in natural stone form. Circumambulation worship of a rock isn't a new thing. The pagans practiced it.

There was a cult of worship of the pagan goddess Al’Lat in Mecca and the black stone in the Yani beneath the Kabah is considered to be a symbol of her.

Stone and Stone Worship

The religion of the nomads of Syria and Arabia was summarized by Clement of Alexandria in the single statement, "The Arabs worship the stone," and all the data afforded by Arabian authors regarding the pre-Islamitic faith confirm his words. The sacred stone ("nuṣb"; plural, "anṣab") is a characteristic and indispensable feature in an ancient Arabian place of worship.

Arabia and the Arabs

There lay back of the religion of the Arabs a belief in one god, but this had been overlaid with varied superstitions, and a groveling idolatry, confused and contradictory without any of the grace and fancy of the Greeks, or the subtle symbolism of Egypt that had long been the worship of the Arabian peninsula. Three hundreds and sixty idols of men and brute animals were ranged along the walls of the Caaba when Mohammad proclaimed, in that great national temple, the unity of God. Each of these idols, no doubt, represented a superstition prevailing in some particular tribe ..

Bottom line ... the Kaaba and Mecca aren't in the bible. They are an invention/military conquest of Muhammads. And the meteorite worship is just a continuation of the stone worship of the pagans of the area .. who also worshipped in cube stone form.

There are different ways at looking at it I guess .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Okay .... I"ve watched 15 minutes of this. It's got some serious good information. I have to get a notepad and watch the whole thing.

Initial notes from your youtube posting ... it says .... It's very clear that the Islamic worship of the meteorite in the Kaaba comes from the pagan worship of a meteorite in the Temple of Diana. Diana even had the same crescent moon and star symbol that Islam uses. Mecca is the Harlot ... Babylon the Great. the waters where the harlot sits is the Zam Zam well of Mecca. It has become the global center of moon and star worship via the continuation of the Babyloninan magic square cube. Even the call to worship comes from the Babylonian call to worship of Bal from towers ...

I've gotta' go get a notepad and watch the whole thing ...
It's very interesting.

The rock and the myth of it turning from white to black has several likely explanations.

For about 15 years I worked as a jeweller and learned a lot from gemologists, so I know a thing or two about rocks.

Possibility #1
The rock was white hot after it 'fell from the sky.' Meteorites get awful hot on entry to earth's atmosphere. As the rock cooled it became black.

Possibility #2
It is not a meteorite, but instead a rare for the region rock that was dug up as a white stone then turned black. It is far from uncommon for rocks and gems to come out of the ground with brilliant colours only for them to fade and usually go milky white when left out in natural light. The colours are uv sensitive you see. So it's also very possible this 'magic' rock was simply uv sensitive and turned back in the sunlight.

Either way a magic rock is just dumb. Trust me, I've worked in a new age shop where people believed rocks could do all manner of things from cure a belly ache to make you rich. We tried experiments on these claims and other than producing some foul tasting and poisonous water in one case (it was meant to be a gem elixir to cure stomach aches) it was all pure bunk.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n


3. Pilgrimages and rainfall
Mecca is called "Bakka" in the Koran. "Baka" is also mentioned in the book of Psalms, as a place of pilgrimage.

Many years ago, I didn't think the passage mentioning rain and pools fit Mecca because I had imagined that region to be an extremely dry desert region, receiving very little rainfall. However, it turns out that once in a while the region receives enough rain to flood the entire structure! Mecca IS Baka!

Lake eyre in Australia is dry most if the time too. Occasionally we get enough rain for it to fill completely as well. Lake Eyre could be Baka!

That theory proves nothing as my Lake eyre example shows. You are just describing a typical place in a desert climate. There are many places around the world where that happens. It does not prove that Mecca has any connection to Baka other than your space cube with a magic rock stuck to it being a place of very strange pilgrimage.

a reply to: markosity1973
Talking about waters ... Revelation 17:1 - One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters.

Revelation 17:9 - This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

If you want a Kaaba/Mecca bible connection (which is the theme of this thread), then take a look at Revelation ... The great prostitute who sits by many waters ... Mecca sits on the Zam Zam Well and is surrounded by many waters - Persian Gulf, Arabian Sea, Red Sea, Gulf of Aden, Gulf of Oman, Mediterraneas, Caspian and Black Seas. AND Mecca sits on seven hills.


** this is for those who believe in Revelation ... I"m not sold on it. However, I have to say that the video posted by the2ofusr1 has me wondering about it a bit more. He made it work rather well.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

I knew it was the site of the Ottoman Empire, and Suleiman the Magnificent was the forerunner of the anti-Christ.

Yes, I already knew Turkey was going to be the place.

a reply to: FlyersFan

The video in my post explains the verses from Revelation.

The video is my video, btw.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
I'll just be putting down a few points on the Kaaba/Mecca/the stone and their co-relation to the Bible.

1. Direction of worship
Jesus himself said that Jerusalems days as the center of monotheistic worship were numbered.
"believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem."

Give the whole verse. It says "The time will come AND NOW IS" and continues with "They who worship the Father must worship HIM in Spirit and in Truth for the Father seeketh such as to worship Him" and by that you just gave credence to the Trinity, so you just committed shirk.

]Mohammad moved the qibla (direction of worship) of worship from Jerusalem to the Kaaba. Today, 1.4 billion Muslims the world over pray in the direction of the Kaaba....5 times a day. No other spot on the planet comes close to being the focal point of monotheistic worship, as the Kaaba.

So even in the Golden Dome Mosque in Jerusalem, they bow toward Mecca? They are in Jerusalem in the very place where you just said Jesus said there was to be no more worship. You can't have it both ways. Give up the Golden Dome, it doesn't belong there, it is an abomination. Your verse you posted disqualifies it from being legitimately in Jerusalem. You just beat your own argument.

Also, the concept of a qibla (direction of worship) is not unique to Muslims. The Bible mentions that Daniel, prayed towards Jerusalem thrice a day, even when he was in a foreign country.
he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before. - Daniel 6:10

It wasn't because Jerusalem was holy to him, Jerusalem was his HOME. He was not Babylonian or Assyrian, he was from Jerusalem. I really wish you people would read the Bible more instead of just posting parroted things from your imam apologists who don't read the Bible.

2. Cubical places of worship in the Bible
The Kaaba is not the only cubical structure that is associated with religion and worship of God. The Bible also contains references to cubical structures of worship.
In Ezekiel 40, we read of his vision of a cubical place of worship. The chapter tells us that what he saw was not located in Jerusalem, where the Israelites already had built their temple, but rather an unnamed city in the South. And we know Mecca is to the South of Israel.

That's because the Ka'aba is a Zoroastrian Fire Temple, but think about it, the Ka'aba housed the 360 idols, and yet the building still stands, that you all bow toward. Think about that one. Mohammed had the Ka'aba restored while the 360 idols WERE STILL IN IT, 30 years before his temper tantrum. Yes, the timeline of Islam, 30 years as the prophet STILL bowing down to idols before destroying them, think about it.

In Revelation 21, the "NEW Jerusalem" that descends from heaven is visually interpreted by many Christian theologians as being a gigantic CUBE.

It's a CITY with gates and walls, 12 gates, one for each of the tribe of Israel, with their name on each gate. Which of the 12 tribes are you going to go through to get into the city?

If this interpretation is correct, then it fits perfectly the Islamic teaching that the Kaaba is a replica of a similar structure in heaven. Funnily, some Christians have gone as far as claiming the Kaaba is a "counterfeit" of the cube mentioned in the Bible!

Not me, I know it is a Zoroastrian fire temple, but hey, since you don't know history, I suppose I will let you look it up yourself and educate yourself.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

That's because the Ka'aba is a Zoroastrian Fire Temple, but think about it, the Ka'aba housed the 360 idols, and yet the building still stands, that you all bow toward. Think about that one. Mohammed had the Ka'aba restored while the 360 idols WERE STILL IN IT, 30 years before his temper tantrum. Yes, the timeline of Islam, 30 years as the prophet STILL bowing down to idols before destroying them, think about it.

Not me, I know it is a Zoroastrian fire temple, but hey, since you don't know history, I suppose I will let you look it up yourself and educate yourself.

Now the Zoroastrian link IS interesting. Have you any links etc that you can provide us? I would love to learn more about that. It's interesting that you say the 360 idols were destroyed, because he still chose to keep the black rock which was probably one of those idols if this is true.

a reply to: markosity1973
Here's a little info for ya' on the Zoroastrianism (Persian) influence in Islam ...

The Muslim 'ascent of Muhammad' was 'borrowed' from Zoroastrian fables .... the Pahlvi text called Arta. Pray five times a day bowing to the fire temple (now the Kaabah/Muzdalifah).... Zoroastrian. Call to prayer from the tower ... Zoroastrian. The notion of acquiring religious merit by reciting the Koran comes from the Persian belief in the merit of reciting the Avestan Vendidad. The Muslim doctrine of 'mizan' in which the actions of men will be weighed is 'borrowed' from the Persians (koran, sura 21:47). The Muslim fable of the angel Gabriel holding the scales to weigh the deeds of the dead on Judgment Day is adapted from the Persian story that two angels will stand on a bridge between heaven and hell and judge souls as they pass into the afterlife. The Muslim view of heaven (paradise) mirrors the Zoroastrian.

Some info on the fire worship ... Muzdalifah was a place of pagan fire worship and Muslim historians refer to this hill as the hill of the holy fire.

The running between the hills is from the pagans as well.

Pagan Origins of Islam

Muhammad discarded the 360 idols but retained for Islam, the Ka’aba with its Black Stone, justifying it with the claim that Abraham and Ishmael originally constructed it. However, there is no historical or archaeological evidence for the existence of the Ka’aba beyond a few hundred years before Muhammad's lifetime. In fact, Muhammad's own words disprove any connection he was attempting to make between Abraham, Ishmael and the Ka’aba

And the CUBE building isn't from the Christian bible like Skorpion tries to claim. It's from the PAGANS of that area.

The pagan gods of pre-Islamic Arabia were worshipped in the form of rectangular stones or rocks. For example, the pagan deity 'Al-Lat', mentioned in Qur'an 53:19, and believed by pre-Islamic pagans to be one of the daughters of Allah, was once venerated as a cubic rock at Ta'if in Saudi Arabia. An edifice was built over the rock to mark it apart as a house of worship.

There is no denying that the Black Stone was one among many stones and idols venerated at the Ka’aba by the pre-Islamic pagans. The Black Stone was kissed during pre-Islamic pagan worship. Though Muhammad threw out 360 other objects at the Ka’aba, he retained this Black Stone and continued the practice of kissing it. It is this same stone that the pre-Islamic pagans once kissed, that Muslims kiss today when visiting Mecca.

And the circumambulation around the pagan cube building comes from the pagans as well. It was kept by Muhammad and incorporated into his worship of the pagan stone kaaba under the guise of his new religion, Islam. It's darkly ironic that Muslims go around claiming the other religions are full of paganism, and they falsely claim that Christianity is polytheistic ... when in fact Islam is seeped in paganism and there could be a very good case made that Islam = Hubal worship ...( the cube building and the crescent moon and star ... etc )

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: WarminIndy




Now the Zoroastrian link IS interesting. Have you any links etc that you can provide us? I would love to learn more about that. It's interesting that you say the 360 idols were destroyed, because he still chose to keep the black rock which was probably one of those idols if this is true.

Zoroastrian Fire Temple

Because the one in Mecca is designed exactly the same, it can't be anything else.

Ka'aba (from an Islamic Site)

At one stage of this destruction of idols, the tallest of the idol Hubbol was brought down after Ali had to stand on the shoulders of the Prophet to carry out God’s orders. The Prophet of Islam was reciting the Verse from the Qur’an

“Truth hath come and falsehood hath vanished.”
This was done in the 8th year of Hijra, January 630 AD after the bloodless victory at Makka by the Prophet of Islam

Mohammed died in 632 AD, so the Zoroastrian Fire Temple with the idols stood until 2 years before his death. That means he was bowing down that whole time to the idols.

And then they try to tell us that Mohammed didn't worship Hubal, but there it is, the last idol taken down was "Hubbol". Did they destroy Hubal?

Zorosastrian Fire Temples

Construction of the Ka'aba

It was destroyed once by fire. That means a fire was burning inside it, which means there was a fire pit. The construction is the same as Zoroastrian Fire Temples, which means that Abraham could not have built it as Abraham was well before Zarathustra and Ahura Mazda. Many of the legends and beliefs incorporated into Islam do come from Zoroastrian and Persian sources, including the belief that angels are light and fire.

ETA: And what FlyersFan just said.

a reply to: FlyersFan and WarminIndy

Cool guys, thanks for sharing so quickly

I was unaware of the zoroastrian connection until now.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
[then they try to tell us that Mohammed didn't worship Hubal,

Last I read crescent moon was originally the symbol of Hubal, the moon god worshiped by Pagans (and probably Muhammad) at the Ka'aba. It was adopted as the symbol for Islam. Islamic coins as early as the 7th century have the symbol on them. It is obvious that it is paganism that was also carried forward ... carried forward in a big way.

I'm not saying that Muslims worship a moon god ... that I don't know.
I'm saying the pagan symbol was brought forward.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

1. Direction of worship
Jesus himself said that Jerusalems days as the center of monotheistic worship were numbered.
"believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem."

Yep and Jesus was correct. Christians pray neither toward Jerusalem nor any mountain. There is no specific direction in Christianity to pray and worship.

Some churches i.e. Catholic / Coptic and Episcopalian the centre of attention in the church is the tabernacle. Where a tabernacle is present in catholic churches, this is the most revered part of the church and people bow to it to acknowledge the presence of Christ. (A host is kept in the tabernacle at all times and it is believed that the miracle of transubstantiation occurs during mass i.e. the host is literally the flesh of Christ)
Most churches have a cross and a lot of people pray toward the cross. Mostly however Christians just talk to God as if here were a person and the focus of direction is 100% irrelevant because God is omnipresent.

As Muslims God has tried to show you the correct way to pray through one of his messengers on more than one occasion. In Zeitoun, Egypt the Virgin Mary appeared to millions of Muslims and she showed them the correct way to pray in a very simple manner - she kneeled before a cross on top of the (Coptic, not Catholic) cathedral and prayed. This is a very obvious show that praying to Jesus is the right direction because the cross represents Christianity.



A similar thing happened recently in the Ivory coast when a Muslim woman prayed for peace in her country outside a catholic church in Agboville in front of a statue of mary. The hands on the statue changed position. The woman freaked out because she was not Christian, but again it's a pretty obvious statement that praying to Christ is the direction to pray, not Mecca because the statue sits outside the church and is a symbol of Christianity once again.

I still think there is strong geopolitical evidence that Putin could wind up being the Beast. Right now, Russia is playing all its cards right to be the strongest player in the Middle East.

The evidence presented here weakens that somewhat. However, it's still not impossible. Consider, no one really knows for sure what Putin's family ancestry is. They know he was born in Leningrad, but not where his family came from. The Seleucid Empire traditionally reached up into the Southern reaches of the USSR, as far as what became Georgia I believe.

Of course, there is also the question of spirituality, too. However, Putin has met with the Ayatollah in Iran and reportedly came away from the experience profoundly moved.

During that meeting, according to the report, Khamenei talked about the history of Russia and what lies ahead, which surprised Putin. Afterward, Iranian diplomats said that Putin’s behavior had changed drastically. When Putin returned to Moscow, a reporter asked what he thought of the Iranian supreme leader. Putin is quoted as saying: “I don’t know much about the Messiah, the Christ, just what I have heard or read in the Bible, but I saw Christ, the Messiah, in the leader of Iran.”

And does the antichrist have to come from Turkey or merely rise in Turkey? Russia is on the move expanding its turf. Would it be so crazy to think that Russia could use it's natural gas ambitions and newfound alliances to build its own Empire and declare it from Turkey with Vlad as the head? And if reports are true, Vlad is a spiritual man of some faith, if the Ayatollah affected him, would a conversion be out of order in order to cement such a thing?

Just speculation.

As far as the Mecca/Harlot thing, it's good speculation. I've thought for a while that if you were looking to create a system that subverts you would give it a lot of stuff that looks really good and virtuous on the surface and then find ways to subvert it and justify bad behavior with some simple twists like taqqiya.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I still think there is strong geopolitical evidence that Putin could wind up being the Beast. Right now, Russia is playing all its cards right to be the strongest player in the Middle East.

The evidence presented here weakens that somewhat. However, it's still not impossible. Consider, no one really knows for sure what Putin's family ancestry is. They know he was born in Leningrad, but not where his family came from. The Seleucid Empire traditionally reached up into the Southern reaches of the USSR, as far as what became Georgia I believe.

Of course, there is also the question of spirituality, too. However, Putin has met with the Ayatollah in Iran and reportedly came away from the experience profoundly moved.

During that meeting, according to the report, Khamenei talked about the history of Russia and what lies ahead, which surprised Putin. Afterward, Iranian diplomats said that Putin’s behavior had changed drastically. When Putin returned to Moscow, a reporter asked what he thought of the Iranian supreme leader. Putin is quoted as saying: “I don’t know much about the Messiah, the Christ, just what I have heard or read in the Bible, but I saw Christ, the Messiah, in the leader of Iran.”

And does the antichrist have to come from Turkey or merely rise in Turkey? Russia is on the move expanding its turf. Would it be so crazy to think that Russia could use it's natural gas ambitions and newfound alliances to build its own Empire and declare it from Turkey with Vlad as the head? And if reports are true, Vlad is a spiritual man of some faith, if the Ayatollah affected him, would a conversion be out of order in order to cement such a thing?

Just speculation.

I think the video I made didn't show the fact that Suleiman's favorite wife was Roxanne, the daughter of a Russian Orthodox priest. She had been kidnapped from Russia and placed in his harem, where she quickly rose to favor, and gave birth to his sons, that became leaders, but were so weak they caused the downward spiral to losing control of the empire.

So yes, there is a Russian connection.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

May I ask what 'religion' you subscribe to? I'm a bit fuzzy on that.
As for the responses you've gotten, they make sense to me.

Just curious; are you promoting either side here?

Oh, also. I worked at a large hotel where cabbies parked outside to catch fares. Many (or most) of them were immigrants from Somalia and Sudan and other Muslim places in Africa. They would get out their prayer rugs from the trunk while waiting and do their thing near the employee entrance/taxi stand.
They ALL faced north when doing so - not East. Not East/Southeast. (Both would have "worked" to face Mecca.) North. Toward Canada. Hmmmm.