Jesus made the law even more difficult.

Jesus reformed the Israelite religion by introducing some new concepts that many would agree are plain difficult to observe in daily life. Jesus said...Lust equalled adultery, hatred equalled murder, divorce was permitted only for adultery, slaps are to be responded by turning the other cheek, calling someone a fool resulted in hellfire, give your shirt to a man when asked for your coat, walk two miles when asked to walk one... And the ultimate...to love the enemy. He basically made the existing Israelite laws even stricter. ___________________________________________________ So how is it that the Christian plan for salvation is promoted as being so easy that all it takes is a confession that Jesus died for the worlds sins? Or is it that Jesus gave all those tough instructions and then died to cover them anyway, in case Christians didn't carry out his instructions? Or maybe understood that his followers would never live up to his teachings, but anyway set high moral standards...in an ''aim for the stars, land on the moon'' kind of way?___________________________________________________ My point is that christianity isn't exactly an easy religion. Adherents are expected to live up to impossibly high moral standards...standards that defy human nature...making it nearly impossible to be saved. Discuss.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
My point is that christianity isn't exactly an easy religion. Adherents are expected to live up to impossibly high moral standards...standards that defy human nature...making it nearly impossible to be saved. Discuss.

My point is that you don't understand Jesus or Christianity ... so instead of hit or miss internet discussions, you should actually go to a Christian Church and attend a bible study or a religious study like Catechism class. Then you'll get the answers straight from the source and in a manner that everyone can understand.

You have said you want Christianity to die. Maybe if you went to a class and actually learned what it believes from the source itself, then you'd better understand that it's not a scrupulous legalistic mess.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n
Solely for conversation, I believe he specifically only left ONE law to his followers: Love God with all your heart soul and mind, and your neighbor as yourself. (or something very close to that effect)

The rest of his commentary to me is examples to express HOW that is accomplished. Hey...I'm no theologian, but that one law is pretty good imo and Im not considered one of his followers.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Correct me if I am wrong but you are Muslim, you have told others not to say things in your threads if they are Atheist. You have another thread ongoing at the moment that a lot of ATS members have commented on and yet you have not responded and now you are starting another thread about Christianity despite saying in the past the following

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
you have spoken like some authority on Islam just because you claim to have studied it for sometime. Those who are genuinely interested in researching Islam further can google the Islamic side to the "issues" raised in the OP. People don't usually learn science from those opposed to science. So there's no reason for people to learn Islam from those opposed to it.

Flyerfan bought this up with you in another thread and yet you have ignored them to start yet another one about Christianity. As Flyerfan said in your previous thread and using your own words "There is no reason to learn Christianity from those opposed to it"

As much as I dislike organised religion, you do seem to bashing the Christian Faith!

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Jesus reformed the Israelite religion by introducing some new concepts that many would agree are plain difficult to observe in daily life. Jesus said...Lust equalled adultery, hatred equalled murder, divorce was permitted only for adultery, slaps are to be responded by turning the other cheek, calling someone a fool resulted in hellfire, give your shirt to a man when asked for your coat, walk two miles when asked to walk one... And the ultimate...to love the enemy. He basically made the existing Israelite laws even stricter. ___________________________________________________ So how is it that the Christian plan for salvation is promoted as being so easy that all it takes is a confession that Jesus died for the worlds sins? Or is it that Jesus gave all those tough instructions and then died to cover them anyway, in case Christians didn't carry out his instructions? Or maybe understood that his followers would never live up to his teachings, but anyway set high moral standards...in an ''aim for the stars, land on the moon'' kind of way?___________________________________________________ My point is that christianity isn't exactly an easy religion. Adherents are expected to live up to impossibly high moral standards...standards that defy human nature...making it nearly impossible to be saved. Discuss.

no, he said GOD saw it that way. and the god he was referring to was the god of this world, who is otherwise defined in the old testament as satan. the god of this world made laws for humans, that humans couldn't keep and he did it on purpose, because humans are his enemy.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

A point of order.

Jesus died for our sins, because he knew that even the best of us were flawed, and would not be able to constantly, and unfailingly abide by his edicts. That is the way I see it.

Essentially, adherents of the faith are supposed to aspire to standards which defy human, animal nature, but they are not meant to attain those standards in every, or indeed many cases. It is striving toward those goals, carrying in your heart determination to do your very best with regard to those edicts, that is what is asked of by Jesus.

Also, to take the rules themselves out of context is somewhat misleading, although I am sure that is not your intent, since I have always found you to be a scrupulous poster. However, it is important to remember that God has forgiveness, and indeed, there are no sins in the Bible, for which it is written that no forgiveness will be forthcoming, if one repents truly and completely.

I think it is also worth realising that Christianity, when taken up for the right reasons, and in a way commensurate with the teachings of Christ, is a much harder path to walk than faithlessness, and harder to navigate than some other faiths as well.

The Bible reminds us often, that none of us are perfect, that all of us require forgiveness at some stage. I think if you add that over arching theme to the edicts of Jesus to his disciples and followers, it adds a layer of understanding to the rules themselves, and the ethos under which they were spoken.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

The yoke of salvation is easy. The path of spiritual maturity is not.

Its like birth and growth. Its easy to be born, you have no say in it, but growing up to be a mature adult requires learned integrity.

It is so simple to become a Christian but is so hard to act like one ...So we serve God in love and lean on Him for our support and strength .

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Muslims sum things up so well with logic when it comes to this issue.



And heres one for the Atheists



And here's a Jew explaining the truth about the Qu'ran

a reply to: DarknStormy

And heres one for the Atheists

Richard Dorkins........................wow that guy has wit

/roll eyes

Generally Muslims conjure up the least logical arguments of all, as that video shows.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Jesus didn't make God's law "stricter", all he did was bring the Truth of what it really is to the world, in a more simple way, whether others would believe it or not.

In Matthew 7:12 Jesus said:

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Jesus declared that treating others in the way that you want to be treated IS the Law and IS the (teachings of the) Prophets. It may not be easy to do for those people who do not care about others (forgiving them, loving them, giving to them, helping them), but it is very simple.

It's very simple, but that doesn't mean that it's easy. In the very next verse (Matthew 7:13) after telling people that treating others as you would like to be treated is The law and Prophets (Matthew 7:12), Jesus admits that although he gave this simple teaching - this 'strait gate' that leads to heaven and life many will choose "the wide gate" that leads to destruction anyway.

Matthew 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' will go to heaven but only those who did the will of The Heavenly Father (Matthew 7:21). It doesn't matter if you make prophesies, cast out demons, perform many miracles (Matthew 7:22), even Satan can perform many great signs and wonders in order to deceive many through false prophets and false Christs (Matthew 24:24). What allows you to enter The Kingdom of Heaven, is following the teachings that Jesus gave while he was explaining all of these teachings to people which he summarized in (Matthew 5:44-45), which also agrees with what he said in (Matthew 7:12), that treating others as you'd like to be treated is The Law and The Prophets. If you do not do this, then you are Lawless and have never known Christ or The Heavenly Father (Matthew 7:23).

People think that following tradition will bring them to Heaven (Galatians 1:14), but Satan uses the religious to try to prosecute God's True Church in order to destroy it (Galatians 1:13). If you believed Jesus, you would no longer be a slave to religion, but would be a Child of God (Galatians 4:7) because you glorify God by being like him. How does one be like God in order to be a Child of God instead of a Child of The World? These teachings we given in Matthew 5:44-45. Love your enemy, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who harm you, then you will be acting like a Child of God - The Heavenly Father because he sends sunlight to the good and evil and rain to the righteous and unrighteous.

Jesus did not come to bring a religion'. Jesus Christ came to bring Truth, because it is The Truth that will set you free (John 8:32). Christ came to call us to freedom so that we will no longer be in the yoke of slavery (Galatians 5:1), but the freedom that Christ has given us is not to selfishly please the body but by love to serve on another(Galatians 5:13), because all of God's Law is truly fulfilled in one command and that is that we love your neighbors as ourselves (Galatians 5:14). If we do not love our neighbors, in order words, if we do not care about treating others as we would like to be treated then God will allow us to destroy ourselves (Galatians 5:15), because those who sow of The Body will reap corruption, but those who sow of The Spirit will reap Life Everlasting (Galatians 6:8).

a reply to: Prezbo369

Nah I disagree, I think a book telling you that no-one has ever seen God and then the followers of that book claiming Jesus is God isn't logical. That's a Christian thing btw.

Jesus made the law easier

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets

He basicly asked people to use their common sense, see themselves in a position of others. It was not following old rules blindfolded but more opening their eyes for what is right and what is wrong.

originally posted by: dollukka
Jesus made the law easier

Absolutely. And it's rather sad that the Muslim misinterpretation espoused by the OP makes Jesus out to be a legalistic pigheaded mess. Jesus is just the opposite. He cares about mercy and love and forgiveness ... not if someone eats bacon or how the person cuts their beard or how a person plants a garden etc etc (all Leviticus nonsense).

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
My point is that christianity isn't exactly an easy religion. Adherents are expected to live up to impossibly high moral standards...standards that defy human nature...making it nearly impossible to be saved. Discuss.

My point is that you don't understand Jesus or Christianity ... so instead of hit or miss internet discussions, you should actually go to a Christian Church and attend a bible study or a religious study like Catechism class. Then you'll get the answers straight from the source and in a manner that everyone can understand.

You have said you want Christianity to die. Maybe if you went to a class and actually learned what it believes from the source itself, then you'd better understand that it's not a scrupulous legalistic mess.

I would agree, if the "source" weren't a corporate establishment refusing to report its pedophile members, encouraging sexual diseases in third world countries, and withholding staggering amounts of resources from the people it promises to serve in the name of its god.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

A previous poster is correct. These are NOT Commands, these are examples of how Christians should try to behave.

The one and only command was to love your neighbor as yourself.

However, Jesus knew all people are flawed and no one can meet the standards he set and suggested and even the 10 commandments.

So Jesus said to his followers, do your very best to follow the commands and standards. When you falter (who hasn't told a little lie to save the feelings of another) when you fall, you are not condemned to hell.

All you have to do is believe in Jesus and call on Him, ask for forgiveness and your slips, falls, sins, mistakes will be forgiven - and then He asks his followers to go and try not to sin anymore.

Jesus says his true followers will try their best to live up to the command to love your neighbor as yourself and all the other examples of "right living" he gives to us naturally selfish, self centered, and rebellious humans. But again when we fail, we only need to ask Jesus forgiveness, believe in Jesus as the son of God, and then try not to repeat our mistakes and we will go to heaven.

Jesus also makes it clear, no one can earn their way to heaven, ones actions are not what allows entrance into heaven. It is a contrite heart and a faith in Jesus as our Savior who will welcome us into heaven.

Jesus wants Christians to follow the 10 commandments, love others as they love themselves, be kind, be non-judgmental of others (Jesus examples to Christians was to love and accept the outcasts of society, those most people shun or find unlovable), to help the poor (especially widows and orphans), and to see all people as equal (in Christ their is no male or female, no master or slave, no marriage in heaven), be generous to others, when people sin it is not the Christians job to condemn but to offer love. Yes, Jesus does ASK his followers to do what most find impossible, to love and treat everyone with the utmost respect and love, no matter who or what they are.

I am perplexed when Christianity is twisted into something judgmental and unkind when Jesus and the New Testament makes it clear that Christians are NOT to be judgmental or unkind - rather to strive to be as non-judgmental and as kind and loving as possible. The key is strive, when one fails, one only need to confess in prayer to Jesus and then to try and not fail again.

By the way, I also agree with a previous poster that you attend a Bible Study, or read the entire New Testament for yourself so you understand Christianity as it appears you are attempting to do.

a reply to: AfterInfinity
That's the worst of the Vatican.

There are local Christian bible studies and local Catholic Catechisms that non christians can go to in order to learn what the bible (which is a Christian book) says. The OP gets his Jesus info from the Muslims and their legalistic notions. If a person wants accurate info ... go to the source. In regards to the bible - that would be Christianity .. not Islam.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

To get a complete picture of Jesus quickly, I suggest you get what is called a "red letter" Bible. It has the actual words of Jesus in red. You can get a quick and complete picture of Jesus teachings by just reading the red type in a red letter Bible.


It is so easy to pull a few lines out of context from any religious book, Quran, Koran, Old Testament, New Testament, etc and make the religion look foolish.

It has always been my contention that one can not comment on something you don't agree with unless you have thoroughly read and understood the other point of view. Our Sunday School class spent 12 weeks looking at the Koran and we were not allowed to bring politics into the discussion or make negative comments, we were just to learn and do our best to understand the point of view of the Quran. Try doing this with the New Testament.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

If you want to understand the teachings of Christ, I think it's best to read the Sermon on The Mount, because in The Sermon on The Mount he teaches people how to be a 'Child of God':

Matthew 5:44-45
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

If someone is raping others, not caring if others become ill, or holding back resources from people in need, then they are not following the Teachings that Christ gave in order to be a Child of God.

Not only is love, blessings, and helping others for our neighbors, but it is also for our enemies, in hope that we can overcome the hatred, curses, and selfishness which is harmful to others.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Jesus reformed the Israelite religion by introducing some new concepts that many would agree are plain difficult to observe in daily life.

You can see that he didn't, just by observation.
What he did do was set himself up as the new "Moses" and gave his own version of law for his congregation, the church.
Judaism went off in another direction once there was no longer the temple in Jerusalem, into the rule of rabbis rather than the temple priesthood.