The proselytising atheist, why?

originally posted by: rangerdanger
The oppression of thousands, and countless acts of murder and betrayal by religion.

Im not "anti-god" but you bet your ass I'm anti-religion.

All modern religion does is hold humanity back, with bronze age beliefs.

What is religion holding humanity back from?

a reply to: borntowatch

First:

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

That quote refers to education as it was, not as we understand it today. I believe that "The proselytizing (insert any group here)" should be condemned, no matter what belief system one may espouse. Being curious, exploring, and discussing your belief system with intelligence, patience, and respect for another's freedoms WITHOUT DOGMA often lead leads to the best discussions. When you are dealing with like minded individuals that is.

Belief systems are typically very personal, and have even replaced national and ancestral identities in cases. This happened through proselytizing. I think people tend to become very passionate, and sometimes very dogmatic, when their beliefs are challenged or condemned (hence the Aristotle quote opener). We should all be educated enough to sit at a round table of totally opposite beliefs, and have a discussion about them with one another. We can talk about what we belief and why we believe it, and whether it is based on fact or faith, respect the rights of others.

In response to the OP, I think "proselytize" is different from "negative rhetoric" and could not be applied to atheists historically. I think that members of both sides of the argument (especially at an impersonal screen over the internet) are prone to emotional rhetoric, ranging from passionate to insulting.

For instance, Mr. X may tell Mr.Y & Z that in his belief system, anyone who eats broccoli will be forced to carry a dwarf star eternally in an afterlife. Mr. Y tells Mr. X & Z that his belief system says almost the same thing but carrots, not broccoli, will send them to their doom. Finally Mr. Z asks for evidence to prove these beliefs, because his belief system is to rely only on provable fact.

This example could turn into a great conversation, or lite a fuse. Mr. X & Y's belief system is based entirely on FAITH, which is their right. Mr. Z's belief system is based on FACT, which is his right. What kind of people they are, how well informed each is in the other's belief system, and HOW they have learned their own belief system will determine which way it goes. Tolerance, patience, and respect for the freedom of others will go a long way here. Dogma, ignorance, or if even one of the three belief systems including proselytizing as a goal, would turn it ugly.

I also believe there is a huge amount of disinformation and misconceptions on people on both sides of your argument. I have met religious people who accept their religious texts as FACT, and refuse to accept that they are driven by FAITH, which is in fact, a FACT. I have met Atheists who accept FACTS as true, even when they are misinformed, see those who practice FAITH as completely abhorrent. Also a FACT, science has yet to prove the non existence of "something", and evolves theories over time that could potentially change the current FACTS.

It all comes down to your quote:

I am sick of it, sick of the constant preaching by the same old atheists, sick of the demands I follow their faith. Sick of the fact I have to be pressured to believe what they want me to believe - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you were sitting at the park tomorrow, and struck up a conversation with someone next to you who told you they were an atheist, how would you feel at that moment? Would you be open to discussion, or avoid it?
IMHO, i believe that many an atheists could make that very same statement statement as quoted above. This is why most conversations on the topic digress into negative, useless, and unproductive rhetoric.

Finally, I found a fantastic paper by Stephan Lewandowsky and Ullrich K. H. Ecker of the University of Western Australia and Colleen Seifert and Norbert Schwarz of the University of Michigan . It is a scientific paper on how society tends to defend their beliefs when challenged even more so when facts are provided.

It is really fascinating:

LINK TO PAPER ON MISINFORMATION

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: benrl



Lots of people (such as yourself) seem unable to come to terms with the word atheist, despite that being exactly what you/they are.



Atheists dont be default claim that there is no god, most (such as you and I) state that we do not know, and so can be described as agnostic-atheists.....



There can be no fence sitting on this issue, you either believe in god/s......or you do not.



When asked 'do you believe in god/s?'....if you answer yes you're a theist.......if you answer ANYTHING else (including 'I don't know')..........you're an atheist

In regards to the OP.....



For the past 3000+ years theists would have burnt us at the stake for not believing in their god/s.....and now that you're receiving just a little bit of force-feedback you're whining about it?



You should be expecting some resistance in this day and age, you should be expecting differing opinions.....because that's the world we live in now.......so you're all gonna have to suck it up and deal with it.

How would your attitude and post differ if you did know for sure?

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: rangerdanger
The oppression of thousands, and countless acts of murder and betrayal by religion.

Im not "anti-god" but you bet your ass I'm anti-religion.

All modern religion does is hold humanity back, with bronze age beliefs.

What is religion holding humanity back from?

Personal knowledge and connection with god? I am in a way very questioning of man made religion since it is from my point of view many times religion cares more about the words describing god, than seeking the thing behind the words and letting god tell you what god is.

A 100 children, babies, innocents have died in the time it took me to write this sentence.

1000's upon 1000's more will die by tomorrow, and this will continue every single day for the rest of your life (unless something drastic changes).

That's not even the worst part, the majority will be dying from famine, disease, murder, neglect, torture, RAPE.

When I realised this many years ago, I converted myself from a Christian that prayed every day, into an atheist / agnostic.

I wouldn't like to 'convert' anyone myself. But when the brainwashed preach to me and condemn me,.. DAMN RIGHT I'm gonna give you something to think about.

I do think the Op for the topic could put in a hint as to the type of person they want to answer e.g. fellow christians, fellow atheists and we should out of politeness, respect the decision. However, many of the topics in religion are like this one- open for all to comment.

a reply to: deadeyedick

I'd describe myself as a Gnostic-atheist

And I'd probably be insane

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: rangerdanger

The oppression of thousands, and countless acts of murder and betrayal by religion.



Im not "anti-god" but you bet your ass I'm anti-religion.



All modern religion does is hold humanity back, with bronze age beliefs.

What is religion holding humanity back from?

Personal knowledge and connection with god? I am in a way very questioning of man made religion since it is from my point of view many times religion cares more about the words describing god, than seeking the thing behind the words and letting god tell you what god is.

It is a matter of perspective and that is different for all. One thing i do know for sure that faith is our path to communication with the creator no matter what your perspective is. When one enters into a state of faithful focus then the spirit connects with yours and reveals your path to your spirit. You may not even notice and everyones path is not the same or pretty for that matter and does not always involve a building or community. He has a reason for all.

a reply to: deadeyedick

That I can agree with.

originally posted by: borntowatch
Seriously, you want to remove the believers freedom to vote, remove democracy.

Excuse me? I didn't say that at all.

What you want by my understanding is a dictatorship where those you oppose are silenced.

Well, then your understanding is seriously flawed.

You dont accept others opinions and demand full control.

You are really making things up here...

a reply to: borntowatch

Short answer: Everyone is religious, it just depends on what they are religious about.

There is more religiosity found in football fans than there are in most Christians. What they worship is arbitrary; it is only how they worship it when it becomes apparent to everyone else.

a reply to: borntowatch

Why does it annoy you?

Sounds like you have a preconceived notion of how you want the direction of a given thread to go.

When a religious thread is posted on a site with many opinionated sceptics, and a motto of "deny ignorance", invariably, and regardless of the topic, there will be people who think an OP is "ignorant" and will likely say something about it! ;-j

It is to be expected... and revelled in as it is an amazing age to have such freely shared freedom of thought, and such easy access to a myriad of communities.

Expecting any individual or group (athiests in this instance) to not post an opinion on a religious thread is a form of ignorance. There are many sites out there dedicated to various gods where a religious thread will be coddled to a set world view on religion, where "atheists" will be banned from posting... this site is dedicated to questioning, and as such will voraciously question any idea... especially ideas that hold at their core some perceived notion of absolute truth.

Taken with the fact that many people on this site see insitutionalised religion as a weed to furtile thought, anything that even hints at indoctrination will be quickly scrutinised.

Sorry... this OP just seems like an immature whine because "you're not getting your way".

If the ferociousness of his site is overwhelmikng, there is always the option of going to a site where people will pander to an idea set.

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: benrl

Lots of people (such as yourself) seem unable to come to terms with the word atheist, despite that being exactly what you/they are.

Atheists dont by default claim that there is no god, most (such as you and I) state that we do not know, and so can be described as agnostic-atheists.....

atheist  
Use Atheist in a sentence
a·the·ist [ey-thee-ist] Show IPA
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[9][10]

Pardon my ignorance, I use words as the English language defines them.

Not what ever niche group decides they mean.

originally posted by: deadeyedick

How would your attitude and post differ if you did know for sure?

Oh, But I believe I know for sure.

I can entertain a thought with out accepting it.

My subjective experience has lead me to be as Sure about my world view as I am about anything else.

My post might be different if I "suspected" but for Me I know, and other people having countering views from me is not a danger to my own belief.

a reply to: borntowatch

If God is real then there is a spiritual war going on. If that is the case, then there is your answer.

The extremely funny part if that atheists that work hard at telling everyone there is no God do not know what 'drives' them to do so.

a reply to: borntowatch
Funny, all I seem to see these days are threads about how atheists are satanists, or are evil, or are whiny children, or one of any number of insults.

The real question is, why the push by members of this site recently to vilify atheists?

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: rangerdanger
The oppression of thousands, and countless acts of murder and betrayal by religion.

Im not "anti-god" but you bet your ass I'm anti-religion.

All modern religion does is hold humanity back, with bronze age beliefs.

What is religion holding humanity back from?

Peace.

originally posted by: Maximus2014
a reply to: borntowatch

If God is real then there is a spiritual war going on.

Not necessarily. Satan could just be a fallen angel with no power that God is just allowing to do certain things in order to test people's faith in spirit.

The extremely funny part if that atheists that work hard at telling everyone there is no God do not know what 'drives' them to do so.

Most of them do know, and it is their bad experiences with false Christians that makes them respond the way they do.

Because of the actions of some false Christians without Love, Peace, Joy, Patience, Gentleness, Self-Control, Goodness, Forbearance, and Kindness which are all The Fruits of The Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) they dislike Christianity (or religion in general) even those they were never following it since they never lived in The Spirit.

originally posted by: Maximus2014
a reply to: borntowatch

If God is real then there is a spiritual war going on.

Not necessarily. Satan could just be a fallen angel with no power that God is just allowing to do certain things in order to test people's faith in spirit.

The extremely funny part if that atheists that work hard at telling everyone there is no God do not know what 'drives' them to do so.

Most of them do know, and it is their bad experiences with false Christians that makes them respond the way they do.

Because of the actions of some false Christians without Love, Peace, Joy, Patience, Gentleness, Self-Control, Goodness, Forbearance, and Kindness which are all The Fruits of The Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) they dislike Christianity (or religion in general) even though they were never following it since they never lived in The Spirit.

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: benrl

For the past 3000+ years theists would have burnt us at the stake for not believing in their god/s.....and now that you're receiving just a little bit of force-feedback you're whining about it?

This comment is funny when you consider the persecution believers have faced at the hands of secularists