Quran Declares Holy Land Given To The Israelites .... but "With Conditions"

originally posted by: tadaman

Until then let them binge on retardation. It does give you mental/ societal diarrhea.

Amen

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Snakedoctorjw

One of the hardest things people can do is decipher who are good religious people and who are the bad religious people. We tend to just throw everyone in the same category. If Christians were running around blowing themselves up we would all be labelled terrorists just like the Muslims are today.

that's true, but explain why American Christian right-wingers went to Africa and convinced an entire government to put to death gay people, and the US government had to come and they were finally able to convinced them not to do that....so ....gay people there, now JUST, JUST... get a "life in prison" sentence......maybe atheists can go down to an African country and convince that government to give the death sentence to all Christians in that country....oh yeah, American atheists don't, because they believe in the first amendment, that everyone is entitled to believe their in own religion, without persecuting others.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
the truth is they have no promise to that land if they are unrighteous.

- Everyone has a different opinion on what 'righteous' is. I could give a list of 'unrighteous' things that Israel is doing .. but also that the 'Palestinians' are doing, and that Syria is doing, and that Iran is doing, and that China is doing, and that the USA is doing. If the land in Israel can only go to those who are 'righteous' then NO group of people on this planet should be there. It should be uninhabited.

- Did they ever really have the promise from God in the first place, or did someone just claim it and so it became part of their own folklore?

The Modern day Israel is in fact the Antichrist ...

It may be antichrist, but I don't think it's 'THE Antichrist'. From reading scripture, it looks like 'the Antichrist' is a single human being. But at any rate, I'm sure there are lots of 'antichrist's' out there ... and there are lots of people in the running for possibly being 'the Antichrist.

a reply to: DarknStormy

wow look at the reactionary idiot......insulting people because their government does bad things....but is too dumb to realize his own government is exactly the same and is in bed with mine.

You must be a child.

EDIT TO ADD:

Your activity in this thread has been nothing but a mess of antisemite, negative comments, token indignation for things you have not seen beyond a computer screen, and rude behavior.

Let me guess, YOU have the right answers......and we are all wrong for not being extremists like you. Please, end you.

a reply to: tadaman

Anti-Semite? What have I said about the Palestinians? Can you quote where I said something bad about them? Thanks. No the Zionist's are not Semites you fool, did you know that almost all the Jews in the world are not Semites? That is a fact so calling me an Anti-Semite is null when your speaking about modern day Jews. I think they are Anti-Semite for the slaughter of Palestinians (Christian, Arab and Jewish) who are descendants of Shem. The Zionists descend from some forest wandering tribe who converted to Judaism for political gain. Even George Soros the skunk is one of them.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

- Everyone has a different opinion on what 'righteous' is. I could give a list of 'unrighteous' things that Israel is doing .. but also that the 'Palestinians' are doing, and that Syria is doing, and that Iran is doing, and that China is doing, and that the USA is doing. If the land in Israel can only go to those who are 'righteous' then NO group of people on this planet should be there. It should be uninhabited.

- Did they ever really have the promise from God in the first place, or did someone just claim it and so it became part of their own folklore?

Well religiously speaking, righteous is what is considered righteous in the scriptures. Stealing and Murder are examples of unrighteous, upholding the law of God is righteous. This was the conditions in inheriting the holy land and even the Bible confirms that, not just Islam.

It may be antichrist, but I don't think it's 'THE Antichrist'. From reading scripture, it looks like 'the Antichrist' is a single human being. But at any rate, I'm sure there are lots of 'antichrist's' out there ... and there are lots of people in the running for possibly being 'the Antichrist.

The Antichrist will be a man, your right but it seems as though this is being implemented for his arrival. There is never going to be peace in the Middle East with the current Israel there and even if the Palestinians and Israel were to broker a peace deal, this is the sign that he's here.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Snakedoctorjw

One of the hardest things people can do is decipher who are good religious people and who are the bad religious people. We tend to just throw everyone in the same category. If Christians were running around blowing themselves up we would all be labelled terrorists just like the Muslims are today.

that's true, but explain why American Christian right-wingers went to Africa and convinced an entire government to put to death gay people, and the US government had to come and they were finally able to convinced them not to do that....so ....gay people there, now JUST, JUST... get a "life in prison" sentence......maybe atheists can go down to an African country and convince that government to give the death sentence to all Christians in that country....oh yeah, American atheists don't, because they believe in the first amendment, that everyone is entitled to believe their in own religion, without persecuting others.

The thing is Homosexuality has always been condemned by all religions. Where America may accept it, another country will not tolerate it and most likely never will and just because the West welcome it with open arms doesn't mean it's right. I agree people should be allow to make their own choices and decisions but in a religious country it will not be the same and if another country doesn't want homosexuals there, then that is their choice.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
The thing is Homosexuality has always been condemned by all religions.

Well ... Abrahamic religions yes. Zoroastrianism which predates those, and in which those are somewhat based, discourages it. Others ... no. Religion and Homosexuality Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism .... no problem. Native American Indians had no problem with it and it was considered 'good luck' for a man to marry a woman AND a man who was homosexual. Confucianism doesn't care and neither does Taoism.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
righteous is what is considered righteous in the scriptures. Stealing and Murder are examples of unrighteous, upholding the law of God is righteous. This was the conditions in inheriting the holy land ....

If the condition is 'do not murder' and 'do not steal' ... then no one should inherit the holy lands. I can't think of any group of people - religious groups or political groups - that doesn't wave something wicked in their present or past history. Heck .. the murder spree Joshua went on should kick the Jews out and the 'spread islam at the point of a sword' all through the 700s and 800s would exclude the Muslims. Christians have the crusades and christian on christian violence through the centuries so they can't have it either. I guess the Abrahamic religions all need to leave.

a reply to: FlyersFan

There is more to it than Just being righteous, we are at the point now where we can determine whether people are of Semetic origin or not and these people who are in Israel right now are not of Semetic origin's. Firstly, a non-Israelite cannot control Israel under Jewish law.

From October 8th, 2013 - New York Times

The four mitochondrial lineages common among Ashkenazis are now very rare elsewhere in the Near East and Europe, making it hard to identify with certainty the lineages from which they originated.

With the entire mitochondrial genome in hand, Dr. Richards could draw up family trees with a much finer resolution than before. His trees show that the four major Ashkenazi lineages in fact form clusters within descent lines that were established in Europe some 10,000 to 20,000 years ago. The same is true of most of the minor lineages.

“Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed,” Dr. Richards and colleagues conclude in their paper. Overall, at least 80 percent of Ashkenazi maternal ancestry comes from women indigenous to Europe, and 8 percent from the Near East, with the rest uncertain, the researchers estimate.

Dr. Richards estimates that the four major lineages became incorporated into the Ashkenazi community at least 2,000 years ago. A large Jewish community flourished in Rome at this time and included many converts. This community could have been the source of both the Ashkenazim of Europe and the Sephardim of Spain and Portugal, given that the two groups have considerable genetic commonality, Dr. Richards said.

So there is one example of why the Jews of today do not have a legitimate claim to Israel, the majority of them are not Semites to start with but in saying that, there are some who are but very few and they are treated like the Palestinians because they are the darker skinned Arab looking Jews. Remember, the Zionist's used the Bible Torah as their legitimate claim to Palestine so they know that what they were doing was wrong. Once they were in, all religious ambitions were thrown in the bin.

So what does anyone do? Nothing because this was predicted to happen, the question is whether people would pick it up. They are there now and the only way they will be leaving is with the world crashing around them. They admit they will bring the world down with them if Israel look's like falling. They have blackmailed the world. The link below is a book about there end game.

The Sampson Option: Israel's Nuclear Arsenal & American Foreign Policy

Israel is built off murder and deceit and the Bible even warns about these people in the book of revelation. Does this ring a bell?

I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan - Revelation 1;2, 9

This is a direct reference to the Modern day Zionist movement and that cannot be denied. Here's why

- They cannot prove they are descendants of the Israelites to start with

- They do not operate under Jewish religious law

- They slaughtered 20,000,000 Christians in Russia whilst confiscating their land and property during the Bolshevik Revolution

- Look up Crypto Jews from Turkey and you will find the culprit behind the Armenian Genocide

- They have the world bluffed

Why are we supporting this group of people and how is it that these people have got to high position jobs (Joe Biden is a Zionist) within our governments? Not only that though, they control what you are told through the media, they control just about everything and people cannot see it. Are people really this stupid? This Muslim who doesn't even live in the Middle East himself is spot on.

He isn't just warning Muslims, he has been in Australia doing lectures, all around Asia, maybe the world, he is warning everyone because he understands how the world is being operated and who is behind it.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: DarknStormy
righteous is what is considered righteous in the scriptures. Stealing and Murder are examples of unrighteous, upholding the law of God is righteous. This was the conditions in inheriting the holy land ....

If the condition is 'do not murder' and 'do not steal' ... then no one should inherit the holy lands. I can't think of any group of people - religious groups or political groups - that doesn't wave something wicked in their present or past history. Heck .. the murder spree Joshua went on should kick the Jews out and the 'spread islam at the point of a sword' all through the 700s and 800s would exclude the Muslims. Christians have the crusades and christian on christian violence through the centuries so they can't have it either. I guess the Abrahamic religions all need to leave.

No this is the problem which I pointed out to another poster earlier. People find it hard to determine the difference between a Good Christian and a Bad Chirstian. The same could be said for Jews and Muslims. The only way you can determine is through the religious books. Being a Good follower is upholding the teachings of the texts, being a bad follower is ignoring the texts and you will find that most of the Crusades, Terrorists, or anyone else who have killed in the name of religion are not Good religious followers. They use religion as a mask which them brings the entire teaching into question.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
Israel is built off murder and deceit .....

Most countries and most religions are. Israel is no better and no worse than the rest.

It all comes down to this - did God really promise Israel to the Jews 4,000 years ago? (answer - unknown) And was a part of that alleged promise that they had to behave a certain way?(yes) DId they misbehave? (yes) If they did, is there anyone worthy of picking up the alleged promise and living there? (No).

No one can prove that God actually made the promise to begin with.
So I don't think it matters. That's it. I'M OUT/

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: DarknStormy
Israel is built off murder and deceit .....

Most countries and most religions are. Israel is no better and no worse than the rest.

It all comes down to this - did God really promise Israel to the Jews 4,000 years ago? (answer - unknown) And was a part of that alleged promise that they had to behave a certain way?(yes) DId they misbehave? (yes) If they did, is there anyone worthy of picking up the alleged promise and living there? (No).

No one can prove that God actually made the promise to begin with.
So I don't think it matters. That's it. I'M OUT/

Did Jesus actually exist 2000 years ago and fly into space like Superman or is it just a Myth? It has no relevance today either going by your logic. If anything, going by your logic would suggest that Islam is the most relevant because it's the youngest out of all the religions.

originally posted by: RocksFromSpace
Very interesting video about how the Quran Declares Holy Land Given To The Israelites.... but "With Conditions".. all of which Israel and the Jewish people have broken. So the covenant with God to the land claimed by Israel is null and void.

The Bible itself declares that the Israelites lived as "foriegners" in the land...
the land is mine and you reside in my land as foreigners and strangers. - Leviticus 25:23

Further, we see that the entire deal was conditional. Israelites could not keep the land if they behaved sinfully. The Israelites were supposed to live according to the laws prescribed for them in their Torah...
You rely on your sword, you do detestable things.... Should you then possess the land?’ - Ezekiel 33:26

As of today, Israel is guilty of doing detestable things. The population is around 30% atheist...they hold gay parades and run brothels...they even insults Jesus on TV. Therefore, The modern state of Israel is not exactly the holy kingdom as fantasized by many Christians.

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: DarknStormy

That's a good first step. Now ... WHO does he think should be getting the land? And is his opinion based on 4,000 year old ancient documents of an alleged promise from God? And why should anyone in 2014AD care about an unsubstantiated claim from 4000 years ago? It seems that both the Jews and the Muslims are using that alleged promise from God to further their own land grab agendas.

No, he is merely explaining the situation, he cannot change it or alter it. What is done is done for a reason. It's not about taking the land off the Jews. Islam also recognises the Jews as the people who were promised the holy land but because they were not meant to return, they look at this Israel as an imitation or imposter. So it's not so much that Israel is a country but the way it is operated and who is controlling it. Israel is owned by the Rothschild's.

This is simply another side of the anti Israle kick. What? So the Muslims have the right to purge Israle out of the land and there by do Gods work? That's what this amounts to.

originally posted by: Logarock
originally posted by: [post=17813033]DarknStormy

This is simply another side of the anti Israle kick. What? So the Muslims have the right to purge Israle out of the land and there by do Gods work? That's what this amounts to.

The Zionists done the same to the Palestinians and still wont let them back into Israel. What goes around comes around bro.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n


Christians were not looking for a la la land return of Israle but simply the return of the people.

If this guy were trying to make a case that this isn't the return he must do it now according to the area of scripture that has to do with the return after the diaspora. That's found in Ezekiel. He wants to focus on an earlier area of scripture that has to do with conditions of living in the land to begin with. They were punished already for that and quite brutally as they were warned.

The conditions of the return are found in Ezekiel and are not a reestablishment under the original covenant agreement.

I am not asking anyone to believe it or not but simply pointing out that this guys approach is incomplete. This mans justifications for his thesis are place on the wrong area, now defunct or superseded by a new promise.

a reply to: Logarock

This is not just a Muslim thing

The truth is that the Jewish faith and Zionism are two very different philosophies.

They are as opposite as day and night. The Jewish people have existed for thousands of years. In their two thousand years of Divinely decreed exile no Jew ever sought to end this exile and establish independent political sovereignty anywhere. The people's sole purpose was the study and fulfillment of the Divine commandments of the Torah.

The Zionist movement created the Israeli state. The latter is a persuasion less than one hundred years old. Its essential goal was and is to change the nature of the Jewish people from that of a religious entity to a political movement. From Zionism's inception the spiritual leaders of the Jewish people stood in staunch opposition to it.

Many Jews are against the State of Israel also and it's for the same reason that the Sheikh is speaking about.

However, despite the media blackout and easy resort to terror the simple truth remains unrefuted and irrefutable: ACCORDING TO THE JEWISH FAITH AND TORAH LAW THE JEWISH PEOPLE ARE FORBIDDEN TO HAVE THEIR OWN STATE WHILE AWAITING THE MESSIANIC ERA!

Exact same thing the Sheikh is talking about.

Torah true Jewry waits patiently for the Messianic redemption. They have nothing to do with any kind of pseudo "Jewish State" and its aggressions against other peoples. They have a deep sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians who have suffered the most from Zionism's false teachings and barbaric actions. The Zionist state is not a Jewish state. The Zionists alone are the only ones responsible for their actions. Authentic Jewry has and will continue to oppose the very existence of this blasphemous state.

Case closed.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: sk0rpi0n


Christians were not looking for a la la land return of Israle but simply the return of the people.

since what year? Because the whole christians for israel movement is fairly new....intensified after atheists managed to establish israel in 1948.

If this guy were trying to make a case that this isn't the return he must do it now according to the area of scripture that has to do with the return after the diaspora.

then Christians and jews also have to prove that using relevant scripture. And scripture tells us that israels stay on that land depended upon its moral behavior. Strange how christians defend an a people who insult jesus on national tv.

That's found in Ezekiel. He wants to focus on an earlier area of scripturethat has to do with conditions of living in the land to begin with.

earlier area of scripture? When did God give israel permission to run brothels, hold gay parades and insult jesus?

They were punished already for that and quite brutally as they were warned.

The conditions of the return are found in Ezekiel and are not a reestablishment under the original covenant agreement.

so when will God punish them for their present behaviour? (gay parades, prostitutuon, insulting jesus? )do the ''conditions'' allow israel to insult jesus and reject him as a false prophet among other things?

a reply to: 3n19m470

Yes, but the Old Testament is not necessarily all false, for example, there may be some kind of worldwide flood(shells are found on mountains, and a lot of cultures tell of some kind of flood), but did not wipe out mankind altogether(or maybe it did and the UFOs just restored us). and perhaps this is why written records all kind of started at about 7000 years ago.

wiki Bible inerrancy, and you'll see that the New Testament is much more accurate than the Old. Perhaps this is why it sounds much more enlightened than the Old. I think we really should divide the Old and New Testament into two separate books altogether. It should go like this: Old Testament - Judasim, New Testament - Christianity, Quran - Islam