Will Obama Have the Last Laugh Over Syria?

Many proclaimed Putin’s negotiations with Assad to get rid of his WMD stockpile, as smart move in preventing U.S military action that may otherwise have toppled Assad (Russia’s ally).

However: At the time I cautioned otherwise; pointing out that the last two leaders to have completely eliminated all their WMD stockpiles suffered the death penalty (Saddam & Gaddafi).
And out of all the countries of this world worthy of “humanitarian bombing” North Korea stands out as a shining example. Yet they possess all 3 types of WMD and as a result, nobody will touch them, as a war could potentially kill even more civilians, than there are even North Koreans.
Likewise: It might be good getting rid of Saddam, Gaddafi and Assad, if only no one was liable to walk into their military bases during that inevitable, chaotic period, of regime collapse, and put at least some of their WMD’s onto the terrorist equivalent of Ebay.
This especially matters in a part of the world where U.S policy orbits around Israel, and where it is more than likely that (short of 72 virgins, plus a authenticated ticket to paradise!) these weapons could not be purchased by a covert "buying to eliminate mission" (as happened to many Soviet era weapons to hit the black market back in the early 1990’s).

I also noted that with around 80% of Americans wanting Obama to ask Congress to bomb Syria www.nbcnews.com...
That with Congress then remaining extraordinarily hostile to that idea…
abcnews.go.com...
To the point the vote was postponed
www.huffingtonpost.com...
And that with Britain’s parliament having already voted against the government’s plans to bomb Syria
www.telegraph.co.uk...

I believe that Putin’s deal with Assad was not a great chess move at all, but almost a massive favour to Obama, in saving this U.S President the utter humiliation (already witnessed by David Cameron) in democracy preventing warfare.

And had any warfare happened: I doubt it would have amounted to very much, as the last thing any Western leader wanted was the jihadists capturing Assad’s WMD’s. Even when they’d been advocating it American, British and French leaders had already made clear to their nervous publics that there would be no troops put on the ground, to surely be shot at, by both sides. www.bbc.co.uk...

But Now…

20th March 2014: Almost half of Syria's declared stockpile of chemical weapons has now been removed, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons says. www.bbc.co.uk...

It is also worth noting that the first thing the OPCW did was destroy the equipment needed for loading-arming the chemical weapons. So even though containers of Sarin gas still exist within Syria, most are without the arming-loading equipment needed to get them a long range (and therefore are already quite useless from a military perspective).

Things Are Changing…

Rebels embattled against the regime of Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad have reportedly come into possession of high-powered anti-tank weaponry, the likes of which may have been supplied by the United States.
Images of rebels equipped with heavy arms have begun to circulate in recent days, and at least one news site has claimed that the source responsible is the US government.
On Monday, Israel’s Debkafile website reported that two moderate Syrian rebel militias — the Free Syrian Army and the Syrian Revolutionary Front — have been supplied with advanced US weapons, including armor-piercing, optically-guided BGM-71 TOW missiles, thanks to the Pentagon. rt.com...

Some see it as the U.S’s way of retaliating against Russia over Crimea.

RT: The US has been apparently reluctant since the start to send heavy weapons to Syria. Why would Washington be changing its mind now, if that is the case?
Chris Bambery: I think the answer is because of the cold war which is taking place between Russia and the United states over the whole question of Ukraine and Crimea, and I think once again the Americans see hitting the Assad regime as a way of getting back at Russia. So I think that’s a simple answer. I have to say I find it strange that we are hearing reports of these anti-armor weapons being given to these groups in Syria.
At the same time, here in London this week there’s going to be a conference expressing fears in the West about the number of jihadists who have gone to volunteer to fight in Syria and the fact that they could pose a threat when they come back. So we have British, European, Western governments worried about these heavy weapons. And as your report makes clear, yes they are providing them to these two groups who say they are pro-western, but these two groups say they actually cooperate with Salafist groups on the Al-Qaeda-linked ground. And secondly, we know as well that these groups have had difficulty defending their arms stocks from these groups when they come in.
rt.com...

I believe far from saving Assad’s ass, Putin has set it up for destruction.
In 2013 Western negotiators-diplomats probably told Mr Putin that our side possesses no intention of supplying Syria’s rebels with advanced weaponry as we feared what kind of visions Syria’s jihadists had involving e.g. civilian aircraft.

When we actually meant we had no intention of supplying the insurgency with these weapons, so long as Assad has WMD’s, because we feared how close easily horrid weapons might travel towards Israel-Washington, the during regime collapse.

Now...
Assad has little-no (useable) WMD’s left, all we have to fear is that (either before or after he’s gone) someone uses an anti-tank weapon against e.g. a civilian aircraft.

But when one looks at the world in purely political terms (and there are plenty in the heights of power who do) then such an attack would actually be doing us a massive favour: Since Regardless…
Of what you believe of 9/11 conspiracy theories, the fact is that immediately after 9/11 George Bush’s polling support went up. The fact is that immediately after 7/7 Britain’s (then PM) Tony Blair also experienced a surge in popularity.
Being leader when you’re people have been attacked is pretty damn easy. All you have to do is say “I hate the people who did this” and everybody agrees with you. If it's our weapons that get used against us then of course for PR reasons a elderly bureaucrat may get sacked. Some small loss. Because if part of a politicians hatred involves stepping up aggressiveness you’d otherwise lack the support for, then what Syria consequences have to “threaten” us with (now advanced weapons are being supplied) doesn’t amount to very much, does it?

reply to post by Liberal1984


80% of Americans want Obama to bomb Syria? Where did they pull that bs from? I think 100% of the Zionist controlled media want you to believe that lie.

I really dont get why everything has to do with what Obama and America think.

Putin is supporting Assad.

I wrote this thread a year ago on why Russia is supporting Assad.

I mean you talk about Western revenge over Crimea, but Russian involvement in the Syrian Civil war predates events in the Ukraine.

I am not actually too sure why you think America will have the last laugh.

I might be missing something, I have just woke up.

Syria is Russians new Afghanistan let them enjoy it I say...

Just keep supplying the Saudis and Qatar with arms and watch them outspend Russia In to a black hole while the west cripple them with sanction after sanction over Ukraine

Job done

The country is 90% Sunni they have more right to want to return to Sunni control as the 60% of Crimea's who voted 100% in favoured of return to Russian control

reply to post by TritonTaranis

Syria is Russians new Afghanistan let them enjoy it I say... - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Let me correct you there Syria is America's Afghanistan, Syria has being gaining ground for a while now.

Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

Syria is Russians new Afghanistan let them enjoy it I say... - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Let me correct you there Syria is America's Afghanistan, Syria has being gaining ground for a while now.

I don't think you understand my friend

The west makes billions each year selling arms to the Sunnis and it's Middle East allies

Russia doesn't make a penny sending every bit of high tech kit it has to aid Assads minority

Sorry if this popped your bubble but that makes for a huge drain on Russia and a gain on the west

TritonTaranis

Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

Syria is Russians new Afghanistan let them enjoy it I say... - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Let me correct you there Syria is America's Afghanistan, Syria has being gaining ground for a while now.

I don't think you understand my friend

The west makes billions each year selling arms to the Sunnis and Middle East allies

Russia doesn't make a penny sending every bit of kit it has to aid Assads minority

Sorry of this popped your bubble

Any proof of this?

168617 80% of Americans want Obama to bomb Syria? Where did they pull that bs from? I think 100% of the Zionist controlled media want you to believe that lie.

Neither I or the link said “80% of Americans want Obama to bomb Syria” it just said “80% of Americans wanted Obama to ask Congress to bomb Syria” (as opposed to not asking Congress at all, which technically he does not have to). Many of that 80% will have been opposed to military action, it is the 20% not wanting him to ask Congress, everyone has to worry about.

OtherSideOfTheCoinI am not actually too sure why you think America will have the last laugh.

I might be missing something, I have just woke up.

Other people seem to have got it, but I’ll explain really slow (with added detail)…
1. Western military action against Syria was never going to bring down Assad (as long as he clung onto his WMD’s). That after all is the primary reason why Saddam was left in power back in 1991 (because he had WMD’s they had not been used, but we knew they would be, if we went after Saddam’s head).
2. Now that Assad has effectively got rid of his WMD’s he has now become a sitting duck. There is no longer any need for allied air power either. Magical weapons we were never going to supply those jihadist savages baying for his blood, we are now willing to supply.
The reason for the change of heart is not because we ever especially feared what would happen to conventional we might supply them, but because we feared Al-Quadra capturing more WMD’s than they could store.
3. As a result Putin stands to have completely lost Russia a very strategically important ally (I’m thinking of Russian naval base at Tartus, plus economic-trade links). The new Syria will not have anything to do with Russia (who supported Assad). It might also be a place where women have e.g. their heads cuts off for not wearing the veil; but that really doesn’t matter (human beings have long mattered less than bags of dirt in the eyes of policy). What does matter is the fact Syria will no longer be an ally of Russia-China. It might not be much of an ally of ours either, but Saudi Arabia looks to gain and they are an ally. Besides that doesn’t matter either because they’ll forever be in chaos, whilst before they were quite a stable county friend of China and ally of Russia. The new Syria in worst scenario (land of chaos and friend of nobody) is an improvement in Western foreign policy terms.

OtherSideOfTheCoin

TritonTaranis

Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

Syria is Russians new Afghanistan let them enjoy it I say... - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Let me correct you there Syria is America's Afghanistan, Syria has being gaining ground for a while now.

I don't think you understand my friend

The west makes billions each year selling arms to the Sunnis and Middle East allies

Russia doesn't make a penny sending every bit of kit it has to aid Assads minority

Sorry of this popped your bubble

Any proof of this?

Mountains of it....

in 2010 the US and Saudi Arabia inked an arms deal worth $60 billion – the largest US arms deal ever – which is expected to provide the Saudi military with state-of-the-art aircraft, bunker busters, and other advanced military equipment, as well as training.

Just google you'll find billions worth or arms deals year after year from all western country's same with Qatar and other Sunni country's supporting there fellow Sunnis in Syria

no.

TritonTaris: Syria is Russians new Afghanistan let them enjoy it I say...

To what purpose, to what end?

I don't think you understand my friend

The west makes billions each year selling arms to the Sunnis and it's Middle East allies

Russia doesn't make a penny sending every bit of high tech kit it has to aid Assads minority

A very evil thing to advocate I so believe. But if Russia must start fighting like that, then let’s have a Russian backed freedom movement in Saudi Arabia, or even America?

The sanctions, the hostility, are coming to Russia regardless of what it does. It seems we need an enemy, and they’ve got the privilege of holding the target sign. For all the media talk stroking President Putin’s ego, it could simply be he’s not being nearly aggressive enough –that Putin's waiting too much for a part of our of policy that doesn't exist.

reply to post by Liberal1984


ah right.

so you are saying that Obama will have the last laugh because Assad is going to fall, a radical Islamic fraction will take over that will deal with neither America or Russia but because Syria is effectively Russia's last ally in the region it will be a "victory" for America because they will have gotten rid of the WMD's and Russian influence?

Because that is pretty much what i was saying in the thread I linked you to in my first post.

And that is also all you pretty much had to say, your OP is a little confused does not seem to make that very clear with you talking about 80% of American wanting to bomb Syria (i refuse to believe that) then something about 9/11 and 7/7.

Also your whole thread is based on the premise that Assad will fall, and I dont see that happening any time soon.

reply to post by TritonTaranis


So you think it is OK to supply weapons and money to the Saudi's who then give those weapons to some of the worst criminals in their country who then go and fight against Assad but along the way slaughter innocent people? Seriously, you are warped.

(AINA) -- A top secret memo sent by the Ministry of Interior in Saudi Arabia reveals the Saudi Kingdom sent death-row inmates, sentenced to execution by decapitation, to Syria to fight Jihad against the Syrian government in exchange for commuting their sentences.

According to the memo, dated April 17, 2012, the Saudi Kingdom negotiated with a total of 1239 inmates, offering them a full pardon and a monthly salary for their families, who were to remain in the Kingdom, in exchange for "...their training in order to send them to Jihad in Syria." The memo was signed by Abdullah bin Ali al-Rmezan, the "Director of follow up in Ministry of Interior."

According to the memo, prisoners were of the following nationalities: Yemenis, Palestinians, Saudis, Sudanese, Syrians, Jordanians, Somalis, Afghanis, Egyptians, Pakistanis, Iraqis, and Kuwaitis. There were 23 Iraqi prisoners.

And here's the letter itself

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Ministry of Interior
Follow-up LOGO Number: 71466/J/H
Attachments:
Date: 25/5/1433 H. [April /17/2012 AD]



(Top Secret)


His Excellency General Suood Al-Thnayyan
The Classified [Secret] Office at the Ministry of Interior May Allah protect him



Peace be upon you and Allah's mercy and blessings


In reference to the Royal Court telegram No. 112, dated on 04/19/1433 H [March 3, 2012], referring to those held in the Kingdom jails accused with crimes to which Islamic Sharia law of execution by sword [decapitation] applies, we inform you that we are in dialogue with the accused criminals who have been convicted with smuggling drugs, murder, rape, from the following nationalities: 110 Yemenis, 21 Palestinians, 212 Saudis, 96 Sudanese, 254 Syrians, 82 Jordanians, 68 Somalis, 32 Afghanis, 94 Egyptians, 203 Pakistanis, 23 Iraqis, and 44 Kuwaitis.

We have reached an agreement with them that they will be exempted from the death sentence and given a monthly salary to their families and loved ones, who will be prevented from traveling outside Saudi Arabia in return for rehabilitation of the accused and their training in order to send them to Jihad in Syria.

Please accept my greetings.

[Signed]
Director of follow up in Ministry of Interior
Abdullah bin Ali al-Rmezan

CC:
Authority of enforcement of the common good and prevention of forbidden
Copy for general intelligence

As you can see the very people you are happy to supply with weapons and money have been sending convicted criminals into Syria from the very start of the conflict. The Saudi's are swine....

Absolutely I support the Saudis and Qatar aiding the fellow Sunnis who had there uprising and ousting of there minority government

For the simple reason that I can see through the propaganda and BS lies to keep Russia's little puppet in power

Russia knows full well should the majority Sunni country Syria implement a Sunni government allied to the Saudis and Qatar that Russia will soon lose Tartus naval base

And thus they have to call them terrorists in order to justify in some way to shooting the protests and crushing the opposition

In April 2011, the Syrian Army was deployed to quell the uprising and soldiers fired on demonstrators across the country.[75] After months of military sieges,[76] the protests evolved into an armed rebellion. The conflict is asymmetrical, with clashes taking place in many towns and cities across the country.[77] In 2013, Hezbollah entered the war in support of the Syrian army.[78][79] The Syrian government is further upheld by military support from Russia, which it stepped up in the winter of 2013-14,[80] - and Iran, while Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and United States[81][82] transfer weapons to the rebels.[83] By July 2013, the Syrian government was in control of approximately 30-40% of the country's territory and 60% of the Syrian population.[84] A late 2012 UN report described the conflict as being "overtly sectarian in nature", between mostly Alawite government forces, militias and other Shia groups[85] fighting largely against Sunni-dominated rebel groups,[86][87] though both opposition and government forces denied that.

All you need to know about the Syrian civil war all factual and not made up BS propaganda from Russia and Assad
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by TritonTaranis


You call Syria ,Russian's puppet friend and there may be some truth to that ,along the same lines that the US now has their puppet government in Ukraine .In your logic of Syrian minority Govt ,and the Ukrainian minority Govt.....both are in the same boat as there is a majority in both countries not wanting their present regime and are willing to have a civil war to hold onto power .Some how I look at this picture in a mirror and once you get past the hypocrisy you see two countries that elected their leaders that both US and Russia do not agree with but are not willing to let the people decide through elections .Well at least the US is not willing , and that is where the majority of hypocrisy lies . In this thread the Russian Naval base is important in another thread it is not .The argument are very selective when they use their hypocrisy ....

168617 Can you remove your first comment since it’s wholly unfair you receive more stars for attacking me over something I never said, nor meant to say either.

Then again does show what a pile of stinking many…

All ATS Please Note…
I know this topic needed authoring, otherwise this would not have attracted the attention of a group of paid agents for derailing topics with unintelligent conversation. You don’t just need to look at the other side of the coin to see it is the same members, who do this repeatedly.Look at the first 4 here, and barring one person (which might be the last one) look for also for a purple one worded reply.

What do you see? You should see dis-info agents at work. Here’s what to do…
Check their other posts, see the negative impact they're having, then think “if they’re being paid to damage them, they’re probably worth me watching & counter participating”. Just a hint.

TritonTaranis You’re right Assad is a Shiite leader a country that is mostly Sunni. But you’re wrong to think a Sunni leader means anything good for humanity or liberty; indeed the only purpose it serves is some medieval idea of religion…

When Saddam ruled Iraq he had to spend far more money (as a Sunni ruling over Shiites) than a Shiite dictator, and if Assad is gone, the new Sunni leadership will be able to treat their fellow Sunnis far more like animals than any Shiite could.

When European Empire’s were collapsing we knew this would be the case, and that’s how no small part of the story about how religious minority leaders came to rule over majority populations. It is a good recipe for compromise & secularism.

Sunni leading Sunni is recipe extremism, terrorism, and extreme poverty owing to levels of corruption not otherwise tolerated.

reply to post by Liberal1984

Maybe you should edit your post because it sure sounded like 80% of Americans want to bomb Syria or Russia .The stars are not really that important but is a means of agreeing ,and because you didn't make that very clear , asking someone to remove their post is a joke ..

When Syria does not meet their own dead line June 30 . Obama should be able to step up and threaten Assad and that will be spun into a win. With Assad staying in power he will have last laugh.

Liberal1984
168617 Can you remove your first comment since it’s wholly unfair you receive more stars for attacking me over something I never said, nor meant to say either.

Then again does show what a pile of stinking many…

Firstly the reply was not an attack on you, it was more a stab at the 80% want part and though I understand that it says 80% of American's want Obama to go to congress it possibly means 80% are willing to see Syria lit up at the same time and I feel that percentage is over exaggerated from the media. I'm sorry if I somehow affected the thread. But it is certainly not a crack at you or your intelligence.

I'll give the thread a bump and a star for the OP also

Don't be so hard on yourself either, it's a great topic..