The Rise of the Order of the Assassins

reply to post by tetra50


Ah,

Kind tetra50, I know you are a sensitive soul, and I appreciate the admonishment. I promise I'll do a thread on St. Francis of Assisi to atone for this thread.

After putting the thread together the thing that I have been trying to 'reverse engineer' from the Assassins stuff if anything is all that I can learn about how people organize themselves. It has been on my mind all day, and I have a lot of thoughts about it.

Thanks for stopping by, I hope that you have a peaceful evening.

reply to post by Mugen

...thanks for the link to badasshistory.com.....epic.

You're welcome, Mugen, I totally agree with you, Ben Thompson's article is the full E-ticket. I had to set my coffee down while I was reading because I was in tears from laughter.

Thanks for coming by.

727Sky
reply to post by Panic2k11

 

Marco Polo's famous Description of the World was written around 1298. It was Polo's account of the many years he had spent in China.

According to the book's prologue, Marco Polo first travelled to China in 1271 with his father and uncle who were both merchants. While in China, he met the great ruler, Qubilai Khan, and so impressed him that the Khan made Marco his special emissary, sending him on missions throughout the various far-flung provinces of China. Marco Polo finally returned to Venice with his family in 1295. He wrote the account of his travels in 1298 while imprisoned in Genoa (or rather, he described his travels to a French writer named Rustichello who wrote the actual book for him).


The basic argument against Marco Polo involves a set of telling omissions. First of all, no reference has ever been found in Chinese archives to an Italian visitor like Marco Polo, despite the fact that China's bureaucrats kept numerous forms of documentation and recorded the presence of many other westerners. If Marco Polo really did serve as a special emissary to the Great Khan, it seems unusual that his presence would never have been noted.

Marco Polo does not mention seeing woodblock printing, which was then unknown in Europe. He never mentions the Chinese custom of drinking tea (also unknown in Europe at that time), despite the fact that he discusses varieties of Chinese wine. He never mentions the practice of foot-binding, even though this custom fascinated all other Europeans who travelled to China. He never mentions the use of chopsticks; and finally, he fails to mention the Great Wall of China.

Marco Polo did, however, identify some important features of Chinese society. For instance, he described porcelain, the use of coal, and the use of paper money—all unknown to Europeans in the thirteenth century. Nevertheless, it is still hard to imagine that someone could actually go to China and manage to miss all the details that he missed in the telling for the book. Nevertheless a great yarn!
www.museumofhoaxes.com...

the (if i spell this right) antithquerer mechanism proves that we are at least 1500 years behind any kind of crap they have us beleive. Atom bombs,rat assasins, sumo bodyguards, its all to stop people knowing what they were the first to find out. We are all goldfish waiting for some flakes from the people who put us in the tank.

reply to post by ThinkingCap


Thanks so much for saying so, I am really glad that you like it, I had a lot of fun putting it together and I am learning a lot.

I would not be surprised if they are still here, battling behind the scenes.

The thing that I wonder about is that the Crusaders, and that means Templars dealt with the Assassins on a regular basis for somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 years, at least. The material I have been reading makes it pretty clear that they were both vying for the same resources over a long period of time, it makes me wonder a lot about what they learned from one another and what kinds of deals they might have struck.

Thanks again for posting.

reply to post by Bybyots


I don't know if you're into video games, but if you aren't then I still suggest looking into the cliffnotes or finer points of the series Assassin's Creed.

It is literally *all* about the battle between the two groups, Assassins & Templars. From a thousand years ago to modern day.

For a video game, it really is filled with amazing concepts in it's story, that is heavily overlooked by most people.

The basic plot is the modern day Templars have invented a machine, capable of extracting memories from descendants of the Assassins. Their goal is to reach back into time, and discover the location of the Apple of Eden. The main character is their prisoner, a man named Desmond Miles who previously escaped his commune of assassins for a "normal life"- throughout the series he learns much about the esoteric history and rocky relationship between the Assassins & Templars; or as ATS would call them, the Illuminati.

reply to post by Bybyots

As you might be able to tell because I spent the most time on it, the organizational "Order" of the Assassins and the way that it may possibly relate to Freemasonic "Order", and also possibly the Templars is really fascinating to me. What intrigues me the most is that despite the powerfully mystery of what we do not know about either the Assassins or the Templars, the organizational template that they seem to share is still with us today as military order and as a model for business management organization. The extent to which they cross-pollinated one another might be something that would be interesting to discuss on this thread.

perhaps they may have had common origins
the rabbit hole goes on and on and...

History tells us some ragtag Scandinavian tribe came out of nowhere in the 10th Century and within a few decades conquered northern France, England, Sicily and Syria. Quite a feat. What history doesn't usually tell us is that four most powerful secret societies in the world would emerge from these Norman kingdoms. France produced the Knights Templar (originally composed largely of Normans), England produced the Freemasons, Sicily produced the Mafia and Syria produced the Assassins.


Quite a coincidence, don't you think?

The Secret Sun: Another History of the Knights Templar[ Part 2of 9]

links to the rest of the series can be found at the end of this article secretsun.blogspot.com...

ThinkingCap
Hell, we could very well know them as the CIA by now.

Funny thing about that...

Thanks to the FOIA, here is a link to A Study in Assassination, written in 1954. It was circulated around the CIA, and is rumored to have been employed in various Central American coups. Here is a condensed version titled, The Evolution of Hassan I Sabbah. In one of those nutty little coincidences that seem specially coded to eff with the researcher in these liminal fields, the banner ad on the latter page reads:

Golden Poppy Florist

Flowers Delivered in the U.S., Europe and Iran

Anyways, from the manual:

…the assassin must be a fanatic of some sort. Politics, religion, and revenge are about the only feasible motives. Since a fanatic is unstable psychologically, he must be handled with extreme care.

Mm-hm. And issued his very own copy of The Catcher in the Rye, huh?

Their Hashshashin predecessors had means of producing a dissociative state in their foot soldiers, and around the same time that manual started making the rounds in Langley, the CIA was preoccupied with experimentation on human subjects; trying to find the most expedient and least traceable way to induce and use the dissociative state.

These experiments may have extended beyond the bounds of the (mostly foreign based) labs and into the wider social sphere-- apparently nothing brings out the useful fanatic quite like a mix of End Times ideology and liberal quantities of _ _ _.

The formula was discovered at Alamut and perfected in America.

"Fida’ii” carried out individual murders and terrorist acts, dressing as merchants, beggars, dervishes, pilgrims, and squires, amongst others. The significance is they were said to be able to penetrate anywhere – regardless of palaces in the city or tents and caravans far away. Like today’s ‘sleeper’ they stayed in the background for years waiting for their opportunity. This included overtly changing their faith for the sake of the mission. Espionage and bribes were common methods to achieve their desired results.

www.rieas.gr... intelligence-services-.html

If an agency had a cook, a trader, a clergyman in every city, in every key household in the world, death threats would be your last resort-- there's a lot of blackmail fodder in a personal retainer's mental files. And Sabbah also pioneered methods that kept the Fida'ii indoctrinated without proximity to the Master, and without being detected by their "employers".

Wonderful thread, thanks.

reply to post by ThinkingCap


You know, I have heard of it and I have a console, I am going to have to get down to playing it. If you check that link in 4th post of my OP that says Assassin'a Creed, it goes to short video from the game that shows how to execute the in-game Sir Conrad of Montferrat. It looks like it's a really in depth game, I understand many of the game-maps are based on the actual historical geographical locations.

Years ago I read Wasserman's book on the Assassins and the Templars, and thought that he was trying a little to stuff a lot in one box, but after looking at the information that is available now I think he may have been understating things. Probably not, though.

Okay, one more:

"I asked you, 'What is a person permitted, once he's realized that truth is unattainable and consequently doesn't exist for him?' Do you remember your answer?"

"I do, ibn Sabbah. I said something like this: 'If a person realized that everything people call happiness, love and joy was just a miscalculation based on a false premise, he'd feel a horrible emptiness inside. The only thing that could rouse him from his paralysis would be to gamble with his own face and the face of others. The person capable of that would be permitted anything.”

-- Vladimir Bartol, Alamut

“…assassination can seldom be employed with a clear conscience. Persons who are morally squeamish should not attempt it”

-- A Study in Assasination

reply to post by Eidolon23


Amazing post, thank you.

2nd

Awesome thread, have dabbled on the topic myself in the past and never managed to glean much more than yourself. As you no doubt know, there is just so much silt to wade through. Great work!

Bybyots
reply to post by tetra50

 

Ah,

Kind tetra50, I know you are a sensitive soul, and I appreciate the admonishment. I promise I'll do a thread on St. Francis of Assisi to atone for this thread.

After putting the thread together the thing that I have been trying to 'reverse engineer' from the Assassins stuff if anything is all that I can learn about how people organize themselves. It has been on my mind all day, and I have a lot of thoughts about it.

Thanks for stopping by, I hope that you have a peaceful evening.

Ahhh, thank you Bybyots, for your pacification and somewhat patronizing, although caring, reply.....
St. Francis of Assisi doesn't quite cut what I referred to, however.....

There isn't a saint nor sinner who addresses what I am speaking to right now...however, i appreciate your response, just the same...
Tetra50

Interesting read. Good stuff.

If you haven't read it, you might want to also look into this historical book:

Dungeon Fire and Sword

Really excellent retelling of the Crusades dealing specifically with the Knights Templar, and giving quite a good history of the Assassins as well. The author has a good grasp of the history of that period, and knows how to write to make it easy and fun to read (also action packed).

reply to post by Bybyots


A very good read. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
S&F

A very well presented and thought provoking thread, i'll just add a little regarding Nizari Doctrine;

In the belief system of the Nizari Ismailis, although God remains the ineffable God of the Universe and the helper of and provider for all living creatures, He also takes on additional "roles" in the drama that is continuously unfolding in this world of His own creation. He takes birth as a human Avatar in the guise of a Messiah, Mahdi, Prophet, Imam, etc. as and when He chooses to. Thus, God is and has been always physically and materially present (hazir) and alive and living (maujood) in the world since the Beginning of Time aside from His spiritual transcendency over His creation. And so God lives simultaneously in the here and now in the human form subjecting Himself to the constraints of the Natural Laws of the Universe created by Him in His transcendent form.
To continue with Nizari Ismaili beliefs, Adam was the first ever Imam because he was given knowledge of all things and because all the angels were commanded to prostrate before him:

And God taught Adam the nature of all things. _Quran3:31
And we said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam." And they bowed down except Iblis. _Quran 3:34

The Nizari Ismaili Imam’s role in the human world is to be the perfect human being (al insaan al kamil) in spite of facing tremendous physical odds. By demonstrating his exemplariness in the face of hardship, the true Imam guides humankind in general and in particular he guides his own flock of steadfast believers who believe in him as a divine being and the repository of the original and authentic Quran. Thus, the Nizari Ismaili Imam is the Speaking Quran of the Nizari Ismailis and has the authority and the knowledge to interpret it according to changing times.

Nizari Doctrine


Nice work if you can get it

Eidolon23
If an agency had a cook, a trader, a clergyman in every city, in every key household in the world, death threats would be your last resort-- there's a lot of blackmail fodder in a personal retainer's mental files.

A good point, and really, how most of it works. How people are kept on the party line. Death is retained as the last resort for those who are untouchable, have courage in their convictions, and, who admit to their mistakes, rather than want to hide them. Blackmail is used to bend and break, death is for those that actually, and truly, believe. Like Oscar Romero. For example. He's a very good example.

My son plays Assassin's Creed...the lower age rated ones anyway...loves it. Likes the idea of killing 'bad' people. Kids, generally, like killing people, virtually, I suspect adults like that too. Telling that they are doing it for a good cause makes it okay. Gives them impetus. Just ask Hitler

Let's see how the sneaky little bastards fend off J-DAMS, CaveBusters, F-22's, Seal Team 6 and the B-1!

Superb thread, Bybyots! It's a subject that captured my attention as a younger man, too.

I think the reason that it does, for a lot of us, is because we are trying to grapple with the foreign-to-our-psyche concept of 'evil' and we wonder just what kind of forces can push folk towards fanaticism and violence.

It seems to be more a result of fanaticism as far as I can intuit. As far as "cross-pollination" goes; I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the possibility that there actually might be war in Heaven so-to-speak, and just maybe the 'ranking system' as it were is handed down from the ethers to the physical.

Maybe, on the other hand, it is, as you referred, hardwired and the world struggle is based on our own subconscious at-depth battle with our own darkness and light. That wouldn't explain the blueprint, the militaristic order, however, so hmmmmm.

Funny thing is, is that in my travels, the common person of faith, any faith, have always seemed to be kind and good and peaceful. It's that other faction that seems to be the problem.

Something 'ELSE'--a very organized and recognizable "else"--seems to be ever-present through all eras and working from its age-old schematic…the names may change, but the game, it seems, stays the same.

Awesome thread! So these guys were like....some of the ORIGINAL terrorists. Haha, just kidding. Well, partly.

reply to post by Bybyots


Good stuff. s&f

I found a great video other day, it's pretty much related!

vimeo.com...