I was stranded by the no fly list

Most of us know the Jefferson quote, "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Long have many of us been suspicious of the government. However, in recent years, and at an ever increasing rate, legislation, executive orders and judicial decisions has lead many, including myself, to be fearful of the government.

I'm sorry to hear you had to go through this ordeal. As a veteran, and vocal advocate for freedom, I live in a state of semi-paranoia. It's an established fact that veterans and participants in groups like this are now being considered de facto terrorists. I never know what list my name may be on, or what actions and communications are being traced and recorded. I don't feel hopeful about the future of the nation or my family. I certainly don't feel free.

I feel we are living in a state of illusion. Where they claim freedom, but it is all to the extent that they let you have it. We are more akin to sheep moved into a bigger pasture. Free to move around, eat when we want, but there is still a fence and a shepherd watching over us, ready to pick off who he sees fit to send to slaughter.

I believe that the system is irreparable. My only hope is that when it does all fall apart, decent, moral, freedom loving people can make it through and start things over.

Speaking of no fly lists, my mom's friend was pulled off to the side because he shared a name with some fundamentalist/terrorist person.

The friend's name was Steven John, so whoever knows who he might have been mistaken for, that would help.

He did get cleared to fly though.

It would help if someone on a fly list is informed before they book their ticket

reply to post by hotbread


No due process. You don't know until you fly. The airlines cannot even tell you you are the no fly list. The worse part there is no process to get off and clear your name. I got help from the "inside" to get off the list and it is rumored that it went up to the Sec Def. Thank God for friends!

Well, I am glad your ok, and glad this went viral....if it didn't who knows what would have happened.

Keep on fighting the good fight people!!!


(and I know whenever I fly, I get "enhanced screening" - I never know what is going to happen when I fly)

Now this is an old school style ATS thread, glad you're okay, hope you get the necessary attention for they way you have been treated.

reply to post by MidnightTide


Just say No thanks.

I am a American and I will keep my rights thank you very much.

Originally posted by SWCCFAN
reply to post by hotbread

 

No due process. You don't know until you fly. The airlines cannot even tell you you are the no fly list. The worse part there is no process to get off and clear your name. I got help from the "inside" to get off the list and it is rumored that it went up to the Sec Def. Thank God for friends!

I suppose the lesson learned here is to keep plenty of US representative and senator contacts in your phone. And plenty of other contacts like ATS members, Infowars, etc.

Gotta get the word out if our constitution is being violated!

reply to post by six67seven


The key is to have great friends that will go that extra mile to help. I had offers of a private Jet that would have cost $70,000 that would have flown from FL to HI pick me up and drop me off in CA, then fly back to FL,. Also had a group in AK offering to pick me up in a fishing boat and take me back to CA.

Its nice to have great friends!

2007 Saudi Arabia unplugged their currency from our dollar. They then announced they weren't accepting US dollars for oil anymore.

So America had to cut oil use. 1 tactic was to scare the public out of flying. TSA was created to be evil and used as a PsyOps to stop people from flying. America couldn't get the oil it needed to keep Commercial Air going anymore.

It's an evil tactic, which you became part of. But the top people decided to do it so nobody notices fuel shortages.

The biggest failure of those in power and the mega-Billions if not mega-Trillions they spent on research......they haven't been able to figure out how to make planes fly without crude oil.

America needs a new Wright Brothers and Nikoli Tesla to move us forward. Sadly the smart people have been beat down too far and cronyism appoints imbociles to places with the money for research.

Originally posted by SWCCFAN
reply to post by six67seven

 

The key is to have great friends that will go that extra mile to help. I had offers of a private Jet that would have cost $70,000 that would have flown from FL to HI pick me up and drop me off in CA, then fly back to FL,. Also had a group in AK offering to pick me up in a fishing boat and take me back to CA.

Its nice to have great friends!

edit on 3-11-2012 by SWCCFAN because: sp

aka

fellow patriots. they make the greatest friends

If you think that this may be caused by your affiliation to a group you can request "your" files through the FOIA, and you can find out about what time this started.

The best way to find out if you have an FBI file is to file a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. You can also use FOIA requests to obtain files from other American government agencies such as the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). By law, these agencies must provide people with copies of their files when asked to do so, although portions of the file may be redacted for security reasons.

Depending on who you are, your FBI file may be quite entertaining or rather dull. As a general rule, anyone who is involved in activist activity has an FBI file, although it may be slim.

www.wisegeek.com...

I hope that everything works out NRE.

reply to post by SWCCFAN


For those of you who understand truly what happened to this guy .....
For those of you who tend to demonize Alex Jones .....
Understand what is at stake here. The People have been A SLEEP way too long.
It is time to WAKE UP and deal with what is being systematically done to us all.
We need to pull the plug on agencies with NO oversight.
We need to pull the plug on POLICY that has no basis in LAW.
We need to take our country back from the Obamaites who are trying to turn it into a 3rd World Socialist State.

SWCCFAN.

I am thankful to people like you who still fight for what they believe in.
You are a true patriot, in every sense of the word.

This is not the end my friend, merely the beginning.
I honestly think this may open up a whole new view at the "List".
Like you said, there most definitely should be Due Process.
But our treasonous leaders in CONgress and in the administration have a different agenda.

I wish all the best for you and good luck!


Bring this to the Supreme Court if you have to!
Let's set these people straight!

you're a subversive in the eyes of the u.s. government, so what you represent is either a threat or something to be taken advantage of.

but you must remember who you are dealing with, they are incredibly smart and the saying "there are no coincidences in politics" applies.

i'm sure you were thoroughly checked out and a psychological profile conducted with all available information.

if they put you the no fly list, it was either to try to push you towards radicalism and increase your antagonism towards the u.s. government hoping to see in you in a court room or to rattle the cage to see who you lead them too.

you have to figure out why you were put on that list and for what purpose.

This scares me! All I can think is what if I was stranded somewhere on my way home for Christmas... I have no media connections, no numbers in my cell phone of government "friends", not nearly enough money for an "unexpected" vacation extension. Seriously what would I even do?

reply to post by SWCCFAN

I take it that you were or are a Ron Paul supporter, the only one against the "no fly list" and anti the TSA.

What does it mean to be a Ron Paul supporter now? It means writing him in and continuing to follow the Campaign for Liberty.

Youre not alone.

While I can't tell you exactly why you were put on the list I can give you some real, factual data on a few possible reasons. (Just for background I used to work as a consultant in Enterprise, Govt and Military projects and designed and built the first database version of the no fly list. Before this the original no fly list and the source for the first million entries was an excel spreadsheet that was provided to the airlines by the govt. The process for clearing flights back then was completely manual with people at the airlines checking names against that spreadsheet. This is how various people on the list who did belong on it were able to still fly including a couple who tried to launch attacks).

So, here are some very broad, general purpose reasons for someone to be on the list wrongly -

1. Generic entries on the no fly list
There are tens of thousands of entries on the list which are very non-specific. Some are nothing more than a possible last name and a short list of locations that person might be coming from. An example might be "last name smith - western US" (and no, I'm not kidding). This is the main reason why you hear stories about 6 yr olds being denied boarding, because some part of their name and location matches an entry which then requires someone to manually check and clear the incident.

There are more flights in the US every day than you can imagine and usually 1 person on each shift responsible for checking and clearing these type of incidents. They have very clear rules they operate under so it does happen that some incidents have to be escalated back to the point of origin for that entry (FBI, ICE, CIA, etc).

2. Cross connection of federal databases and automated processes
Despite the "de-funding" of the "Total Information Awareness Network" the project did continue under different names and funding sources. Since even before 9/11 part of the effort to build an "all seeing" intelligence network inside the US (and the World) has been to create connections between different databases. A generic example of this which may or may not apply in this case (disclaimer) would be a secret service program that looks for FBI processing of fingerprint cards in the past 90 days and compares it to bookings for specific flights / all flights / flights to / from specific places. Sorry, I can't really go into more detail beyond that.

Is it possible your political activities led to someone placing you on the list? I believe it is and I think we've seen examples of this. Playing devil's advocate, is it more OK if the subject's political activities involve extremist Muslim groups than a US natural born person who has an interest in militias? The problem is that all moral positions we might argue kind of vanish once some kind of incident happens. Knowing this is why various agencies are willing to step over lines you or I might find disagreeable. It's safer for them to violate our civil liberties than survive the post incident finger pointing that takes place in our Govt.

The problems w/ the current system are clearly -

- a complete lack of due process or appeal
- a system that allows entries onto the list for pretty much whatever reason by too many sources both human and automated.

Unfortunately the American public has surrendered liberty for security and will get neither, period. As this network grows and agencies like the TSA realize no amount of searching or prophesying will prevent terrorism they will continue chasing their tails w/ more and more intrusive solutions.

Reading this I realize two things:

1. This is real. Before it's always been a story about someone who I had no contact with. They were just a name and maybe a picture but this feels more real, I think it's because I share a website membership with the patriot who was mistreated. It doesn't sound like much that ties us together, but this makes it real.

2. The more I learn the more I want to pack up all my things and raise a family in the woods somewhere away from everything we call civilization.

-C.Q.

reply to post by SWCCFAN


I am glad that you are back, and they took you off the fly list.

A few years back, around 2006 and 2007, when I was still travelling a lot by plane due to my job, they confused me with someone else who had a similar name to mine, and that person was in the "no-fly list".

The stewardess who was checking my information before getting on the plane, and who said she had to check because she believed I was in the "no-fly list" even told me, "you are special, this is why you are in the list"... I wanted to laugh out loud, but didn't because the situation was a bit unnerving. Anyway, she did realize/found out I wasn't the person in the "no-fly list" and was allowed to get on the flight back to Wyoming.

Althou after that I had another problem in a flight that I had to take, again due to my job, and I think it is possible that problem put me on the "no-fly list". I even had to pay a penalty fee to the department of Homeland Security because of this problem.

Since then I haven't flown, because I disagree extremely with the TSA patdowns, and body scanners which are truly unnecessary. I even drove from Wyoming to Florida, when I moved back to Florida in 2011, so I wouldn't have to take a plane and deal with the UnConstitutional pat-downs, and sexual harrassment which is now legal thanks to the Obama administration and the elites in power.