Modern Mind Control

originally posted by: alwaysbeenhere2
Anyone remember this?

www.youtube.com...

That's not the show I was thinking of, but it's the same experiment that I saw in the other show.

Can a person be hypnotized to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?

Yes, I've seen it done twice now, and it's shocking to watch.

I think what bothered me more about this case, is the candidate's nonchalance after watching himself shot the man on stage.

The other thing that I found remarkable about this video was at the 3:45 minute mark, where the hypnotist was able to put a man to sleep on the floor in a matter of seconds, with what is called a snap induction. Incredible.

originally posted by: IndieA

originally posted by: alwaysbeenhere2
Anyone remember this?

www.youtube.com...

That's not the show I was thinking of, but it's the same experiment that I saw in the other show.

Can a person be hypnotized to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?

Yes, I've seen it done twice now, and it's shocking to watch.

I think what bothered me more about this case, is the candidate's nonchalance after watching himself shot the man on stage.

The other thing that I found remarkable about this video was at the 3:45 minute mark, where the hypnotist was able to put a man to sleep on the floor in a matter of seconds, with what is called a snap induction. Incredible.

I ve always asked the same question but we may have to use another word instead of 'hypnotised'. Brainwashing and mind controlling seem more appropriate.

a reply to: Dreftenq

Mind control is a multifaceted subject involving many methods.

Using other words, creates new questions.

We started with:

Can a person be hypnotized to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?

But we can also ask:

Can a person be brainwashed to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?
Can a person be indoctrinated to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?
Can a person be peer-pressured to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?
Can a person be blackmailed or threatened to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?
Can a person be chemically manipulated to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?
Can a person be electromagnetically manipulated to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?

I far as I know, only hypnosis and chemical manipulation are capable of producing the amnesia effect needed for this experiment.

a reply to: IndieA

Back when I was studying MK several decades ago, I came across several "magicakal" sites claiming techniques that put forth methodologies to create mindless assassins. Certain personality traits were looked for, and folks predispositioned towards violence and those with weak wills were said to be the easiest to put under hypnosis and made to commit atrocities under the command of their controller.

Another methology is similar to cult indoctrination, isolation of the targeted individual, repeated abuse scenarios to break down the sense of self and create and reinforce a victim mindset and a sense of complete helplessness before they perpetrators start "rebuilding" the broken mind with praise and reconditioning and "love bombing" that makes the victim more likely to carry out orders from their captors under the fear of pain, death and punishment.

I'd post links, but whoever is in charge of the internet wisely scrubbed and buried the majority of these "how to guides".

originally posted by: IndieA
a reply to: Dreftenq

Mind control is a multifaceted subject involving many methods.

Using other words, creates new questions.

We started with:

Can a person be hypnotized to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?

But we can also ask:

Can a person be brainwashed to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?
Can a person be indoctrinated to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?
Can a person be peer-pressured to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?
Can a person be blackmailed or threatened to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?
Can a person be chemically manipulated to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?
Can a person be electromagnetically manipulated to carry out a murder attempt, and without any recollection of the event?

I far as I know, only hypnosis and chemical manipulation are capable of producing the amnesia effect needed for this experiment.

I think so, for most of the questions you asked is not all the answers is a big YES!

originally posted by: crayzeed
...

If you really want examples you only have to look at all these demonstrations happening around the US. Oh, you can come out with "but it's only stupid young students" but the methods that some one is using is working.

I would look at mass shootings first. Or how do you call it when someone uses a knife or a car as the murder weapon? (I guess "mass murder", but there are different forms of that)

If you put sufficient pressure on some people for long enough a few of them will crack and act out in desperation and a desire for revenge:

Who is more to blame (or the primary cause) though, the one who cracks or the ones applying the pressure (by means of what I earlier referred to as behavioural manipulation)?

Either way, it is "tragic":

You may call it "senseless violence" (quoting from the video above), but it actually does make sense if you factor in the pressure and manipulation that is applied first.

In quite a few of these cases they like to point out the one committing the violence is "schizophrenic" (quoting from the video again). That's a little too convenient to just say these people have a mental condition and leave it at that. A nice distraction from the responsibility of the manipulators and those in society also affected by it and possibly treating the target differently than they would other people (ending up further facilitating the conditioned and manipulated response of the 'schizophrenic' target that follows). James Holmes (from the Batman movie shooting) was called "schizophrenic" as well (although in that case there seems to have been another motive than revenge).

Just in case there's anyone out there similarly manipulated and pressured (conditioned) to act out in a desire for revenge (often not exactly knowing who to blame for their situation*, hence the seemingly randomness of their violence, not personally knowing their victims), perhaps you can take some inspiration from this song to help cope and endure, no matter what society or those pulling the strings in society (who are often quite popular in society) throw at you (*: or when talking about the desperation factor, the target being incapable to get adequate help from friends, family or government funded institutions or channels, or from any other source):

Or this one:

And for everyone else, consider if there is something in or about human society that drives these people to commit such acts rather than automatically assuming all responsibility always lies exclusively with those driven to such desperate acts motivated by a desire for revenge (in some other cases it's for fame or infamy, but I haven't been discussing that scenario, there are other scenarios and accompanying motivations as well if we're talking mass murders and what is often called "senseless violence"), often accompanied by the thought: 'they're just crazy' (did they start out life crazy? Would they have done these things if their experiences in their lives had been considerably different?). People often do say: "If you want to make the world a better place, start with yourself."

Some other scenarios and motivations that I haven't discussed here yet:

Why So Many Violent Crimes Now? (Awake!—2003)

For example:

...

Why Do They Do It?

There is no one factor that explains all the varied acts of senseless violence. What makes some crimes more difficult to understand is their irrational nature. For example, it is hard to comprehend why a person would walk up to total strangers and stab them to death or why someone would drive by a house and shoot at random.

Some claim that violence is inherent in people. Others argue that senseless crimes cannot be explained as an unavoidable part of human nature.​—See the box “Doomed to Violence?”

...

People’s Inability to Cope

When hearing of certain heinous acts, some may react by saying, ‘That person must be crazy!’ However, not all individuals committing such crimes are mentally deranged. Many, though, do have difficulties in coping with life. ...

DOOMED TO VIOLENCE?

Some argue that the propensity for violence or killing has always been inborn in humans. Supporters of evolution maintain that we come from wild animals and have simply inherited their violent characteristics. Such theories would leave us doomed to an endless cycle of violence from which there is no hope of escape.

However, there is much evidence to the contrary. The theories mentioned above do not explain why in different cultures there are wide variations in frequency and types of violence. They do not indicate why in some cultures responding with violence seems to be the norm, whereas other societies report very little violence, with murder almost nil. Psychoanalyst Erich Fromm exposed cracks in the theory that we inherit aggression from primates by pointing out that although some of them are violent as a result of physical needs or for self-protection, humans are the only ones who have been known to kill for the sheer thrill of killing.

In their book The Will to Kill​—Making Sense of Senseless Murder, Professors James Alan Fox and Jack Levin state: “Some individuals are more prone to violence than others, yet free will still exists. The will to kill, though governed by numerous internal and external forces, still includes choice and human decision making, and thus accountability and culpability.”

a reply to: whereislogic
To cut your long post short what you've just described there is a pure example of a certain religion. The young are "conditioned" from early childhood to act/behave/hate and perpetrate deadly violence, yet the authorities turn a blind eye to their practices. So it's not just hypnotic/chemically induced programming or even peer pressure, as I said earlier it's subtle programming over a period.

a reply to: Dreftenq
Virtually all scientific/phenomena has been highly disputed, and some still are. Like evolution of the species. This is always the main stream scientists either dismiss any evidence as bogus or ignore it completely because it does not agree with their dogma/thinking and it would rattle their little cages of their safe known world. That in a nut shell explains why we as humankind progress slowly in nature/ technology etc.

a reply to: crayzeed

From the article at the end of my comment:

Hate Groups and Cults

Evidence suggests that some hate groups or cults have been a strong influence in the commission of certain crimes. In Indiana, U.S.A., a 19-year-old black man was walking home from a shopping mall. Moments later, he was lying on the side of the street with a bullet in his brain. He had been shot by a young man who picked him at random. Why? The assassin allegedly wanted to gain membership in a white-supremacist organization and to earn a spiderweb tattoo for having killed a black person.

The 1995 nerve-gas attack in a Tokyo subway; the Jonestown, Guyana, mass suicide; and the deaths in Switzerland, Canada, and France of 69 members of the Order of the Solar Temple were all cult inspired. These examples illustrate the powerful influence that certain groups have had on the thinking of some people. Charismatic leaders have got people to do the “unthinkable” by tempting them with some supposed benefit.

On the other hand, Colossians 3:12-14 describes the positive qualities that many honesthearted individuals are cultivating now. It says: “As God’s chosen ones, holy and loved, clothe yourselves with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, lowliness of mind, mildness, and long-suffering. Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely if anyone has a cause for complaint against another. Even as Jehovah freely forgave you, so do you also. But, besides all these things, clothe yourselves with love, for it is a perfect bond of union.”

Millions of people around the world are already doing so. Also because they are regularly reminded of Romans 12:17-19:

Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.”

Verse 21 adds: “Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.” (taking us back to the Sia song to "Never Give Up" on that)

“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God;” (2 Cor 10:3-5)

originally posted by: Beesnestbomber
MK ULTRA is a lie, it didn't happen.

originally posted by: nugget1
'There's proof it's true; there's proof it's a lie...', and the beat goes on. The threshold for belief differs with each individual, and nobody can know for certain which one is right. Often the truth lies somewhere in the middle, so an open mind can be beneficial in all things rumored.

In order to find out the truth/certainty (synonyms) of this particular matter though, one must be openminded to the idea that one can find out the truth of this matter "for certain" (pardon the redundancy in that sentence now). Otherwise, why even bother searching for it, i.e. trying to figure out what the truth of the matter is.

That being said, the CIA documents concerning project MKUltra have been declassified and are public knowledge, there's even a wikipedia page on it, which says:

Project MKUltra was an illegal human experiments program designed and undertaken by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to develop procedures and identify drugs that could be used during interrogations to weaken people and force confessions through brainwashing and psychological torture.[1][2] It began in 1953 ...

... MKUltra's scope was broad, with activities carried out under the guise of research at more than 80 institutions aside from the military,[17] including colleges and universities, hospitals, prisons, and pharmaceutical companies.[18] The CIA operated using front organizations, although some top officials at these institutions were aware of the CIA's involvement.[11]

MKUltra was revealed to the public in 1975 by the Church Committee of the United States Congress and Gerald Ford's United States President's Commission on CIA activities within the United States (the Rockefeller Commission). Investigative efforts were hampered by CIA Director Richard Helms's order that all MKUltra files be destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct participants and on the small number of documents that survived Helms's order.[19] In 1977, a Freedom of Information Act request uncovered a cache of 20,000 documents relating to MKUltra, which led to Senate hearings.[11][20] Some surviving information about MKUltra was declassified in 2001.

Ask yourself, if they did it before (and managed to manipulate others to go along with it, many of whom probably did not see the bigger picture of what they were participating in, see 2nd paragraph above), and nobody went to jail for it, why would they cease these illegal activities? Especially when a much larger game is at stake that even CIA agents involved in such manipulation, pressuring and conditioning of targets are not aware of, and they themselves are being manipulated to continue these sort of 'projects' (activities), possibly thinking they are doing something good (helping protect society from dangerous individuals or those painted or deemed as such).

“Woe to those who say that good is bad and bad is good,

Those who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness,

Those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

Woe to those wise in their own eyes

And discreet in their own sight!” (Isaiah 5:20,21)

The Stasi's (East German intelligence agency) equivalent to MKUltra type of psychological warfare was called "Zersetzung", on its wikipedia page you can read:

... and applied to political opponents in an effort to undermine their self-confidence and self-esteem. Operations were designed to intimidate and destabilise them by subjecting them to repeated disappointment, and to socially alienate them by interfering with and disrupting their relationships with others as in social undermining. The aim was to induce personal crises in victims, leaving them too unnerved and psychologically distressed to have the time and energy for anti-government activism.

Coming back to my earlier remark about a much larger (manipulation) game at stake, there is someone who stands above the governments of this world, "the ruler of this world" (John 12:31). Now when he targets someone because they are a threat to his agenda, the techniques to get masses on people on board with his campaign of hatred and social undermining (getting the target to be despised by as many people as possible, using the paintjob routine, involving gossip, backbiting, slander, etc.), the way the "collaborators" mentioned below are manipulated into this game is much more subtle and less obvious:

The Stasi used operational psychology and its extensive network of between 170,000[3] and over 500,000[4][5] informal collaborators (inoffizielle Mitarbeiter) to launch personalized psychological attacks against targets to damage their mental health and lower chances of a "hostile action" against the state.[6] Among the collaborators were youths as young as 14 years of age.[7]

Now change "hostile action" against the state to hostile action against the ruler of this world (or his agenda) to bring it into the scenario I described above. The scenario I'm describing now is a level higher than just the state level, "because we have a struggle, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places." (Eph 6:12) The larger game at stake, with a lot more cunning adversary (than his human pawns that he enlists to do his dirty work of social undermining).

Social undermining is the expression of negative emotions directed towards a particular person or negative evaluations of the person as a way to prevent the person from achieving their goals.

This behavior can often be attributed to certain feelings, such as dislike or anger. The negative evaluation of the person may involve criticizing their actions, efforts or characteristics.[1] Social undermining is seen in relationships between family members, friends, personal relationships and co-workers. Social undermining can affect a person's mental health, including an increase in depressive symptoms. ...

Source: wikipedia page for social undermining

In this age, there's a very succesful specific paintjob one can paint on a target to induce anger, hatred, disdain and repulsion in the general populace (or potential "collaborators", i.e. to get other people on board and make them feel the target deserves however they are being treated, that it is their own fault and that they themselves are responsible for whatever is happening to them) for the target. But I recon my comment is getting a bit too long now.

a reply to: whereislogic

You missed the point; just because MKUltra was proven doesn't mean every evil act is caused by mind control. YOU may believe MKUltra was behind Columbine and your neighbor may believe negligent parrenting was the cause, thus making the 'truth' what you choose to believe, dependant on how strong your biases are.

Most people aren't even aware of how biased their minds are, making them very easy to herd, direct and control.

a reply to: nugget1

There was no indication in your comment that you weren't responding to the statement: "MK ULTRA is a lie, it didn't happen." To which you responded with: "'There's proof it's true; there's proof it's a lie...', and the beat goes on. The threshold for belief differs with each individual, and nobody can know for certain which one is right. Often the truth lies somewhere in the middle, so an open mind can be beneficial in all things rumored."

So there was no way for me to tell that your point wasn't about whether or not "it" (MKUltra) was a lie.

Now if for some reason you might feel reluctant to admit that there is a way for people to know for certain that project MKUltra really existed and was carried out by the CIA, that's fine (even though by using the term "was proven" you sort of already admitted that fact/truth/certainty/reality). If the point you just made about project MKUltra being a fact/certainty/truth/reality "doesn't mean every evil act is caused by mind control", isn't there in your original comment though, there's nothing for me to miss.

Democritus, hailed as “the greatest of ancient philosophers,” asserted: “Truth is buried deep. . . . We know nothing for certain.” ...

This assault on the idea that truth can be known has continued down to our day. Some philosophers, for instance, say that since knowledge reaches us through our senses, which can be deceived, no knowledge is verifiably true.

Thought I'd take the opportunity to address that way of thinking (so often promoted or expressed in this world) at the same time. It's not that openminded to the idea that truth can be known (for certain). And not that conducive to being or becoming openminded to the truth of a matter, if one already thinks it's impossible to find out for certain anyway (some people who think that way told me nothing was impossible when discussing other subjects, I guess they like their contradictions).

Source: “What Is Truth?”

originally posted by: whereislogic
...
Coming back to my earlier remark about a much larger (manipulation) game at stake, there is someone who stands above the governments of this world, "the ruler of this world" (John 12:31). Now when he targets someone because they are a threat to his agenda, the techniques to get masses on people on board with his campaign of hatred and social undermining (getting the target to be despised by as many people as possible, using the paintjob routine, involving gossip, backbiting, slander, etc.), the way the "collaborators" mentioned below are manipulated into this game is much more subtle and less obvious:

The Stasi used operational psychology and its extensive network of between 170,000[3] and over 500,000[4][5] informal collaborators (inoffizielle Mitarbeiter) to launch personalized psychological attacks against targets to damage their mental health and lower chances of a "hostile action" against the state.[6] Among the collaborators were youths as young as 14 years of age.[7]

Now change "hostile action" against the state to hostile action against the ruler of this world (or his agenda) to bring it into the scenario I described above. ...

I forgot ridule/scoff in the bolded list, since it's a rather effective technique to bring someone down (undermine them socially, turn them into a social pariah), so to speak, I thought it was worth the edit.

A social pariah is someone who is now avoided by everyone, especially their peers, perhaps because of a betrayal or an unpopular opinion or belief.

Source: Dictionary.com (I think they could have left out: "especially their peers", especially in the context I used it; and in this scenario, it's because of being a target for social undermining accompanied by behavioural manipulation to assist the social undermining paintjobs)

Ridicule is the act of belittling or exposing to contempt, derision, or mockery. Ridiculers often refuse to listen to rebuke (Pr 13:1) and do not love those reproving them. (Pr 9:7, 8; 15:12) As God’s Servant and Prophet, Jesus Christ was sneered at, laughed at, made fun of, treated insolently, even spit upon, during his ministry on earth. (Mr 5:40; Lu 16:14; 18:32)

On a side note and coming back to the tactic of social undermining (as employed by all those using similar techniques as in the CIA's MKUltra project or the Stasi's Zersetzung):

“‘Sect’ is another word for ‘heretic,’” (not quite but whatever, not the main point) wrote German Professor Martin Kriele in 1993, “and a heretic today in Germany, as in former times, is [condemned to extermination]—if not by fire . . . , then by character assassination, isolation and economic destruction.”

The tactics haven't changed much and the witch-hunts haven't ended. Just a different target and accompanying accusation now (no I'm not talking about the term "heretic", there's another paintjob nowadays that is much more effective in getting people to respond as desired by the father of the lie, to undermine someone socially, to assasinate their character and isolate them; well, other paintjobs to be more exact; people like witches and certain types of heretics now, they're actually popular).

a reply to: whereislogic

If you personally belive there is ample evidence to prove MKUltra is true, then for you it is. I know quite a few people who believe there is more than enough evidence to prove it's not true. Personal beliefs are funny like that.

Neither talking in circles is nor reduncy is my forte, so I cede the floor to you.

a reply to: nugget1

Back to 'it's just a belief'? You already said "MKUltra was proven", the implication being that it is a proven (confirmed, verified, certain) historical fact/certainty/truth/reality that the CIA ran a project called MKUltra. From the declassified CIA documents and other evidence we can all know for certain that this project centered around administering drugs and employing "psychological torture" (to use the term wikipedia uses on their page about it, it falls under the category "psychological warfare" as used on the wikipedia page for Zersetzung, the Stasi equivalent that was more encompassing than MKUltra, the latter being just one project of many such psychological warfare projects as employed by intelligence agencies across the world).

Of course, the ruler of this world doesn't need to limit the carrying out of his agenda to intelligence agencies, he's got approx. 8 billion potential "collaborators" (to use the term from the Zersetzung page) who will never know what they are participating in or that their opinions about a target are the result of manipulation* on both sides (both the target and the potential "collaborator" being enlisted into his agenda without realizing it). *: in particular the social undermining that shapes their opinions, especially when enhanced by the behavioural manipulation of the target (to reinforce the attempt to paint a negative picture on the target).

Just another reminder from the page on Zersetzung how this works:

... and applied to political opponents in an effort to undermine their self-confidence and self-esteem. Operations were designed to intimidate and destabilise them by subjecting them to repeated disappointment, and to socially alienate them by interfering with and disrupting their relationships with others as in social undermining. The aim was to induce personal crises in victims, leaving them too unnerved and psychologically distressed to have the time and energy for anti-government activism.[24]

Or any action that could threaten the agenda of the ruler of this world if you want to bring this into the bigger picture. The Stasi obviously only care about anti-government activism. The ruler of this world has bigger concerns than protecting the interests of just one goverment.

Also worth repeating (between brackets are my remarks now to bring this into the larger manipulation game, or bigger picture):

Social undermining is the expression of negative emotions directed towards a particular person or negative evaluations of the person as a way to prevent the person from achieving their goals. [here is where the paintjobs also come into play to achieve a negative opinion about the target in the populace. And the behavioural manipulation of the target to reinforce that promoted picture of the target.]

This behavior can often be attributed to certain feelings, such as dislike or anger. The negative evaluation of the person may involve criticizing their actions, efforts or characteristics.[1] [and making sure you point it out to others or that they pick up on it as well, what supposedly is wrong with the target's actions, efforts or characteristics, to reinforce the earlier described negative opinion that others now can more easily agree with if you make it more clear to them what is supposedly wrong with the target and justifies your negative opinion and treatment of the target, and why others should agree with that or be OK with it, or to see you as being completely justified in feeling that way about the target and doing nothing wrong or harmful to the target when discussing it with others by means of gossip or ridicule for example. The earlier mentioned backbiting, slander and scoff also come into play here.] Social undermining is seen in relationships between family members, friends, personal relationships and co-workers. Social undermining can affect a person's mental health, including an increase in depressive symptoms. ...

The main goal in social undermining as employed by those engaging in things such as Zersetzung (or involved in the larger game, wittingly or unwittingly), and the criticizing, is not to build up the target and to help them, but to tear down and to help justify yourself and the negative opinion you either have or wish others to have as well (the latter especially when the criticizing takes place through gossip and ridicule, which scenario is not really addressed in the text from wikipedia above, there the criticizing seems to be directed at the target the way they phrase things, when employed by those I described at the start of this sentence, the target is often unaware what criticism is being gossiped about, in that case, it's even more obvious that it's never meant to build up the target or help them, cause they don't get to hear it). And to get others on board with the program, "the negative evaluation of the person" (target).

a reply to: whereislogic

Neither talking in circles is nor reduncy is my forte, so I cede the floor to you.

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: whereislogic

Neither talking in circles is nor reduncy is my forte, so I cede the floor to you.

That's an odd way to demonstrate that, repeating yourself without adding anything new.

That was pretty redundant for me. I read it the first time. Also seems fairly contradictory to your claim to me.

But let me take the opportunity to share another tidbit from the wikipedia page about social undermining:

Research suggests that whether or not someone engages in social support or social undermining depends upon their own goals. Those with compassionate goals are more likely to be supportive of others, while those who have more selfish motives believe that people should take care of themselves. When people have goals to preserve their own self-image this can undermine their compassionate goals and make them less supportive.

And from the page on Zersetzung:

Zersetzung served to combat alleged and actual dissidents through covert means, using secret methods of abusive control and psychological manipulation to prevent anti-government activities. People were commonly targeted on a pre-emptive and preventive basis, to limit or stop activities of dissent that they may have gone on to perform, and not on the basis of crimes they had actually committed. Zersetzung methods were designed to break down, undermine, and paralyze people behind "a facade of social normality"[1] in a form of "silent repression".

... The principal force employed to implement Zersetzung are the unofficial collaborators. ...

As applied by the Stasi, Zersetzung is a technique to subvert and undermine an opponent. The aim was to disrupt the target's private or family life so they are unable to continue their "hostile-negative" activities towards the state. Typically, the Stasi would use collaborators to garner details from a victim's private life. They would then devise a strategy to "disintegrate" the target's personal circumstances—their career, their relationship with their spouse, their reputation in the community. ... After months and even years of Zersetzung a victim's domestic problems grew so large, so debilitating, and so psychologically burdensome that they would lose the will to struggle against the East German state. Best of all, the Stasi's role in the victim's personal misfortunes remained tantalisingly hidden. The Stasi operations were carried out in complete operational secrecy. The service acted like an unseen and malevolent god, manipulating the destinies of its victims.

... The most insidious aspect of Zersetzung is that its victims are almost invariably not believed.

a reply to: whereislogic

Stop making me laugh.

a reply to: nugget1

Do you have anything substantive to contribute? If not why bother?

The truth is the truth, regardless of what someone believes or doesn’t believe. Which is why we should always remain open to questioning our beliefs and reevaluating them as necessary. Only by that way can we gain an objective understanding of things, by pushing our preconceived notions aside.

That I believe is pretty much what the poster you are replying to was saying. I don’t see the issue with that.

originally posted by: 5thHead
So, let's get a little history first to understand where we came from.

We have MK Ultra and kids being abducted and drugged in Montauk NY.

Now that was a long time ago, but what happened to those people? The Doctors and physicians I mean. What happened to the drugs that were developed? What happened to the data they collected? Who is currently using it ?

Who are the children of these doctors? What have they gone on to do?

It's like Chuck Schumer said. They have ways of ruining you.

There are people in this country that use drugs to drive people crazy and control them. I don't mean party drugs... Recreational drugs. I mean mind control. TORTURE.

Now to the present.

This whole video is good and recommended It should be a real wake up call. It's disturbing to say the least.
but about 10 minutes in you hear from this "trainer". He's from Canada and admits to using illegal drugs on people. Not weed or coke or something. Experimental drugs. Very creepy dude and he knows pretty much all the "stars".

Also, Canada had some pretty crazy mind control experiments themselves.

It's still happening and there are a lot of medical Doctors that should be in prison.

Drugs definitely can ruin lives and have ruined lives over many generations. Either legal or illegal substances can have a great impact on someone's physical and mental health. Remember you don't need MK-Ultra to ruin people's lives. The current opioid crisis in the US Is a testimony to this and the high dependence of people on prescribed drugs.