Vladimir Putin - Tsar Nimrod of our time

Hello ATS!

We all know from history and the Holy Scriptures (book of Genesis) about the very strong and intelligent Babylonian king - Nimrod. His human qualities, in my opinion, strongly overlap with the qualities of Vladimir Putin, and I will try to explain this to you.

Nimrod is usually depicted as the king of Babylon during the construction of the famous tower. This is completely incorrect for several reasons, including the chronological aspect. Nimrod could not take part in the construction of the Tower of Babel. The dispersion of the nations, which was a direct consequence of the events in Babylon, occurred in the sixth generation after Noah, and Nimrod is the third generation from Noah. Therefore, there is no way he could have been the king of Babylon during the construction of the tower.

The main quality that unites the personalities of Nimrol and Putin, according to the scholar-theologian Evgeniy Avdeenko, is that they are both “catchers.”

“Nimrod was the first of the Gibborim before the Lord: he is, so to speak, a legitimate king; his work is pleasing to God; and his name remained in history. The king must be in some way a “Gibbor”, which in itself means “strong” , – we would now say (in the context of politics) “a strong hand.”
From what core do the qualities necessary for a ruler develop during the founding of a kingdom? In a transition to strong centralized government, what qualities should the new government have?
The Book of Genesis twice testifies that at the very beginning of the establishment of the kingdom, the ruler must have qualities that converge in one occupation: tsayid ציד - “fisher.”
In the story of Nimrod, it is somehow assumed that the “fowler” is a trapper. Even though at the beginning of his life the future king is an animal hunter, but there are different methods of hunting. Any hunt is a struggle between man and beast, it requires courage, possession of weapons, observation, endurance, flair and special enthusiasm - they say about such people: this is a hunter. However, a hunter is not a fighter, a hunter is not a warrior, his skill and his courage are of a special kind, it is best conveyed by the word “hunter”. The catcher is, first of all, a master of ambush and trap; he knows how not to reveal himself; the catcher surpasses the beast with cunning and inexhaustible patience. The ability to wait, remaining unnoticed by the animal, not to give oneself away by smell, to lure the animal or to get close and carry out a “capture operation” - the properties of a “catcher”.

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The book of Genesis indicates the need for a ruler who begins to rule a kingdom to have qualities that are united in one skill - the ability to fish. However, in the modern world the profession of “catcher” no longer exists, and the task of organizing centralized government comes to the fore. It is obvious that "the kingdom begins with man who is superior to the beast as a hunter." How can this idea be applied to the process of building strong power in the modern world? The one who concentrates power must be what is called a "catcher" in the Bible, and in modern parlance - an intelligence officer.
To create any strong centralized organization, whether secular or spiritual, it is necessary to possess the qualities of a catcher. Secular power and church dispensation have their own characteristics, but what they have in common is that the initial impulse in both cases lies in the ability to catch. The king is likened to a trapper, and the apostles are likened to a fisherman. The art of the fisher, whether for spiritual guidance or temporal authority, is a ministry of the Lord.

“Fishermen will fish” (meaning spiritual leadership), and “catcher will catch” (meaning strong, legitimate authority), - this is what the Lord Himself says to the prophet Jeremiah about His people.
Not only at the time of the founding of the kingdom or when the church structure changes, there should be “catcher” and “fishermen” in society who are engaged in public service. There should always be such people. They are a great blessing to the people, for then they have a kingdom and a priesthood.

Thus, thanks to Nimrod, we find the first mention of the beginning of political life in the Bible: the kingdom of Nimrod is a union of four cities located in Mesopotamia, which lie in the Sennar valley (Sumer). Babylon and Uruk (Erech in the Bible) are located in the south of the kingdom, and Akkad is in the north.

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God-given authority refers to the organization of the church, while political authority involves government "before the Lord God." Both of them have their own semantic, symbolic and volitional impulse - catching. “Fishermen” and “catchers” are needed in society, otherwise instead of creation, destructive processes will begin that can lead to revolution. Holy Scripture gives an example of such a revolution, which is called “Babylon”.
A catcher must always be a sensitive and patient person. However, Babylon is first and foremost a magnificent structure. The technical inventions and revolutionary idea of building the tower aroused such enthusiasm among its builders that the sensitivity and patience necessary for the catcher and fisherman (as well as for sound secular and spiritual organization) would have been a hindrance... The builders of Babylon decided to live without priesthood and kingdom.

“The modern builders of the “Tower of Babel” also came from the “east.” And in times closer to us, with their arrival in the “north” they marked the construction of the “chimera kingdom” (Khazaria), the spirit of which is alive to this day. This It should not only alert us, but force us to predict the action of this spirit in our political, economic and spiritual life, which has long been bearing chimerical signs."

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Maybe Putin himself is not aware of these qualities of his, but he acts precisely as a catcher. How many times did he miss blows without giving back and waited. We didn’t understand what he was waiting for, why he wasn’t acting, but when the “beast” entered the hunter’s territory and revealed himself, a lightning strike was struck. And so much so that there is nowhere to run. And so it is always and in everything.

Thank you.

PS. Today, November 4, in Russia there are 2 big holidays at once - National Unity Day and the Day of the Kazan Icon of the Mother of God. This is a secular and religious holiday at the same time, when at the beginning of the 17th century, under the icon of Our Lady of Kazan, the Russian people managed to overcome the schism and expelled the next Western invaders from Russia. Congratulate me))))

a reply to: RussianTroll

Congratulate me

I’m not sure whether to congratulate you for your self-perceived accomplishment in seeing something not seen by others, or question what appears to be a form of propaganda. I’m not sure how you want this topic viewed as you posted it in the History forum and Putin is not yet a historical figure and he seems to be the topic.

You present Putin as if he were a religious icon worthy of worship as some kind of superior being. It reminds me somewhat of how many of Trumps’ followers see him. (please I’m not trying to politicize this but instead I’m trying to point out the similarity). You see Putin as a messiah of sorts.

I’ve always found people's proclivity towards seeking personal heroes as a weakness and yet we all do it. You may find the following article interesting…

The Concerning Cult-like Worship of Politicians

Religion and politics have more in common than many may consider.

Self-identification is an important cornerstone of what we interact with. Modern culture dictates that we often align ourselves with groups that share our same views and opinions. Political parties have become a succinct demonstration of this phenomenon. According to an article by Stanford’s news website, political affiliations are stronger identifiers in the United States than race, gender, and religion.

However, religion is an apt comparison to political parties.

I don't see Putin how you do. I see him as a pompous bully who would do anything to stay in power. A man who can't be trusted. History has seen many like him.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Christian believers in Russia consider Putin to be the forerunner before the coming of the White Tsar, who in turn will prepare the second coming of Jesus Christ. Much indicates that the White Tsar will appear in Russia in 2025 - 2027.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Why do Russian Christians believe that?

That scenario sounds more like the beast preparing the way for the Anti-Christ. Jesus doesn't need a particular human to "prepare" the way for His return. That sounds more like the Muslims believing that their Mahdi is going to "help" Jesus conquer the earth for their Allah.

The Word of God and the Bible has already prepared the way. Why would a Christian put their faith and hope in any man instead of putting all of their faith in God/Jesus alone?

Putin looks like he has been a good leader, perhaps why the rest of the world hate him. Being good to your people did not work out well for Gadaffi in Libya. The path Christ walks is a hard one with a lot of adversary on the way. To find a better way there is a lot rotting away in that too hard basket.

I do prefer the days where the sports field was the place to sort out some of these rivalries.

originally posted by: Deetermined2
a reply to: RussianTroll

Why do Russian Christians believe that?

That scenario sounds more like the beast preparing the way for the Anti-Christ. Jesus doesn't need a particular human to "prepare" the way for His return. That sounds more like the Muslims believing that their Mahdi is going to "help" Jesus conquer the earth for their Allah.

The Word of God and the Bible has already prepared the way. Why would a Christian put their faith and hope in any man instead of putting all of their faith in God/Jesus alone?

There are many White Kings described in the Old Testament. Another issue is that the modern Torah (Masoretic Text) and the King James Bible have removed entire books from the Old Testament and are now inaccessible to Western Christians. Read translations from the Septuagint and Vuganta in Latin editions before the 2nd Vatican Council of 1962-65. Read the original source, not rewritten Sacred texts.

originally posted by: kwaka
Putin looks like he has been a good leader, perhaps why the rest of the world hate him. Being good to your people did not work out well for Gadaffi in Libya. The path Christ walks is a hard one with a lot of adversary on the way. To find a better way there is a lot rotting away in that too hard basket.

I do prefer the days where the sports field was the place to sort out some of these rivalries.

Putin is not Gaddafi. It has a huge religious and civilizational tradition behind it. The West has neither the spiritual nor the physical strength to destroy it. This is a fact.

a reply to: RussianTroll

I don't understand your point. What I do know from some of those kings in the Old Testament (the stories of Lucifer and King of Tyre), is that they had fallen angels for mentors who ended up leading them astray. I fear that Russia is headed down that same fallen path.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Putin is not Gaddafi. It has a huge religious and civilizational tradition behind it. The West has neither the spiritual nor the physical strength to destroy it. This is a fact.

I know they are different, they both stirred up the hate by the wicked ones in the west. There is still some strong spiritual strength in the western community. As for the western leadership, it does look spiritually lost these days, all the way up to the UN and throughout the corporatocracy.

With Russia getting its account at the world bank closed, looks like Putin got the torch to keep things running should the global economy crash. Tough job but looks like progress is getting made.

As the threat of planetary nuclear annihilation still exists, hopefully it never comes to that. As for any kind of ground invasion, Russia looks strong with its defensive approach.

a reply to: RussianTroll

The connection you're drawing between the biblical figure Nimrod and contemporary political leaders like Vladimir Putin is an interesting interpretation. Nimrod is indeed a figure mentioned in the Book of Genesis in the Bible, known for his role in the construction of the Tower of Babel. However, interpretations of Nimrod's character and his significance can vary among theologians and scholars, and it's important to note that historical and biblical interpretations often involve a degree of subjectivity.

Your argument seems to focus on the qualities of being a "catcher," which involves skills such as observation, patience, and the ability to set traps or act with cunning. You suggest that these qualities are necessary for individuals who aim to establish and maintain strong centralized governments or organizations.

It's worth recognizing that political leadership and historical figures are often analyzed and discussed from various angles and perspectives. While your comparison between Nimrod and modern political leaders may offer an interesting viewpoint, it's essential to remember that such comparisons can be highly subjective and may not necessarily align with widely accepted interpretations.

Moreover, political leadership and governance involve complex dynamics and a wide range of qualities and skills, and it is essential to consider a comprehensive understanding of these issues in a contemporary context. It's always valuable to engage in thoughtful discussions about leadership and its qualities, as long as they are based on sound reasoning and respectful dialogue.

Thank you for sharing your perspective on the qualities of "catchers" and "fishermen" in society, as well as your thoughts on political leadership. It's clear that you view these qualities as significant in both secular and spiritual organization and governance.

The parallels you draw between historical and biblical narratives and contemporary political figures, like Vladimir Putin, offer an intriguing lens through which to interpret leadership and actions. The idea of patience and waiting as key qualities for a "catcher" is an interesting perspective on leadership.

I appreciate the information about the Russian holidays on November 4th and their historical significance. National Unity Day and the Day of the Kazan Icon of the Mother of God are important occasions in Russia's history and culture. Congratulations on the observance of these holidays.

Well, I know that Jesus kept using the same word for his intentions given his disciples. He said he will make them fishers of men or catchers of men. Because he was referring to building a congregation of collecting followers, the term could simply be referring to a person whose charisma brings in droves of supporters, more than anyone else. Like a Hitler figure or even a Trump like man. But who knows.

a reply to: RussianTroll

This nonsense is super silly. Vlad the slaughterer has no good sides as human , no good at all period. Vlad has serious mental illness and all together lack of even normal/healthy human qualitys .

a reply to: RussianTroll

It seems to me that one way to differentiate between good and evil leaders is to ask, do they rule by forced compliance or by allowing free will. That's basically the concept put forward by scripture. Putin rules by forced compliance which puts him on the wrong side. I think Dark Tsar would be a more apt description of Putin.

a reply to: Lysergic

Nimrod is certainly a difficult biblical character to define. Was his goal to reach God or did he think himself superior? Tough call.