Documentation of The Holocaust

a reply to: nugget1

I'm happy to remove my comparison, it is by my own admission loaded to generate a reaction, despite being fair. If a mod would like to edit i have no arguments.

My only surprise is with long term members shock at me being insensitive.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: randomuser

Always find it strange that we have this one narrative in history that should not be questioned. Anything else is fair game.

That is because it is not a narrative. A narrative is a story line. What we have here is the one existential reality within the collective human realm of experience that is unquestionable and beyond doubt. Even the existence of God is capable of being questioned and one’s agnosticism or atheism is accepted as a personal point of view.

Yes, it doesn’t matter about the body count. One million, six million or twelve million…..even one is one too many. Like Yeshua?

Actually, if everything in life could be argued or interpreted we could not be sure about anything. There are some great debaters out there and in here. Are we male? Are we female? Are we Arthur or are we Martha? Thank God there is one aspect of reality that is cast in stone. Yeshua said, Do not build your house upon the sand else the ocean tide will rise and wash away even the most well built walls. If you are going to build a strong wall you must build it upon a solid rock foundation.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: Grenade

Your experience may vary.

I guess I'm lucky to live in a polite society where no one forces anyone to do anything against their will, and folks follow the law in the best interests of their neighbors out of consideration.

Sorry for your loss and you were so traumatized by a piece of fabric.

Now imagine how being killed or forced into a concentration camp or ghetto would feel.

Pussy.

Ahhhh, straight to the smarmy snarky “holier and smarter than though” attitude.
Always helps the debate.
The guy was just saying both were fascism.
Hardly a crime against humanity to believe this.
What’s so monumentally important to you that you must claim that your fascism is worse than his ?
Seems like an odd need.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: randomuser

Always find it strange that we have this one narrative in history that should not be questioned. Anything else is fair game.

Well, as you can see, Covid and masks are right there with the Holocaust, as things where you aren’t allowed to stray from the official story.
How strange, they are comparable in that regard, but the big crime of the day, in this thread, is comparing them.

a reply to: purplemer

A lot of that is because of the apologists who try, with varying degrees of desperation, to mitigate, obfuscate, and downright deny, the reality of the Holocaust.

Legitimate research into the Holocaust is constantly ongoing, but when it ventures into the realm of denial--that's when it becomes, shall we say, problematic.

That's the main reason it's somewhat unwelcome on ATS. Not the topic itself, but the apologists that can't/won't stay away.

Because Stalin had millions murdered, or Mao, or Pol Pot did--it somehow mitigates what the nazi's did.

a reply to: Grenade

I would have to go with the Scottish referendum.

Brexit also springs to mind.

To my mind, those were of significant importance.

And i did not vote down to puppets telling me to do so but because i choose to of my own volition.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Would you attribute this quote to Darwin or Hitler?

“I could show fight on natural selection having done and doing more for the progress of civilization than you seem inclined to admit. Remember what risk the nations of Europe ran, not so many centuries ago of being overwhelmed by the Turks, and how ridiculous such an idea now is! The more civilised so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilized races throughout the world.”

Asking for a friend.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Turquosie

Remind yourself who's being called a nazi in this thread, despite not saying one thing which could even remotely resemble fascism.

Perhaps we went a bit off topic. My comment was not really directed at OP.

a reply to: seagull

I agree, however when people want to state an exact number of deaths, i'm simply saying the data is inconclusive. Like i said it's a sensitive subject which shouldn't be reduced to statistics. However, if you're going to reduce it to numbers then we're dealing with approximations. 2 million, 5 million, doesn't really matter, at the end of the day it's a shameful travesty.

a reply to: seagull

It's definietly a point of subject that many schools don't go over Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot. Which is why they are much less talked about i believe.

Mao is even memorilized with many statues in China

So while Hitler is rightfully demonized and well-known, Mao goes largely unnoticed for those who don't read history. Which I always found interesting that the public school systems seem to somewhat glaze over huge historical figuares like Mao, ghengis khan, Pol Pot and how they rose to power to achieve such horrific deeds.

a reply to: Turquosie

It's a good point, tyrants who are responsible for the deaths of millions should hardly have their ideological beliefs justified by their body count. Stalin, Hitler, Mao all deserve equal disdain. A compass only reads North until you reach the pole.

Nope. The essence or spirit of the movement is exactly the same.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Turquosie

It's a good point, tyrants who are responsible for the deaths of millions should hardly have their ideological beliefs justified by their body count. Stalin, Hitler, Mao all deserve equal disdain. A compass only reads North until you reach the pole.

Stalin, Mao, Castro, others who were dedicated communists get a pass for their evil deeds.
Hitler was evil to certain peoples that get more press, so he’ll never get a pass. Though there’s still a a big argument as to whether National Socialism
was socialism.

a reply to: randomuser

This in reference to the closed thread?

Jewish diaspora was substantial in territory taken over by the Third Reich. I really don't care if the Jewish historians have upped that number as years go on. Even the lowest end is indefensible.

Attempted erradication can be used by the scapegoat however they want should they ultimately be proved the victor. Hitler unintentionally seeded zionism and the full revival of The Jewish Identity, ancient Hebrew and all.

That aside, I mostly want to know how saying "only 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 actually died" lessens anything? That is like a serial killer that gets arrested for 61 slayings saying, "You know, I only committed 10-20 of those!"

I also like the use of Western Europe population numbers for what was mostly an Eastern Europe population, Yeah, you left off the 6 million that lived in Poland, the USSR, and Baltic states.

It's old hat as far as holocaust denial goes.

a reply to: purplemer

Distance?

When enough time has passed that nobody still alive remembers directly. Until their beloved relatives that died are no longer remembered in person, and there is nobody left that suffered in the camps.

a reply to: stevieray

A pass?

From who? Govt.'s who's only concern is maintaining their power?

From me, and others like myself? I condemn them with every fibre of my being. They, along with everyone who has ever been like them, are burning in a lake of fire, or will burn, forever condemned to the same pain they inflicted upon the innocent, or so I believe and hope.

Armenians. Jews. Gypsies. Intellectuals of any sort. Worshippers whose only crime is being a scapegoat. Indigenous tribes, and nations through out history. ...and God alone knows how many others. Just because they aren't mentioned in the same way, or as often, as some others matters not, the condemnation is the same.

a reply to: Grenade

It'll never be known how many, I personally believe that the six million figure is underestimated. Einsatzgruppen were not known for their meticulous record keeping.

There are, probably, mass graves out there in the European hinterland that have not been uncovered. I hope I'm wrong.

God knows how many others were "cleansed" in the same time period. In all truth, we probably really don't want to know.

a reply to: Turquosie

Yes, he is. But how many of the people in China actually "worship" him of their own volition? I doubt it's a majority opinion.

I learned of these, and others, because I read about them, or got to know survivors of the atrocities. A very good friend was a survivor of the Killing Fields--his family didn't. His nightmares are horrific. His families crimes? They were teachers, and intellectuals. Ironically, they supported the Khemer Rouge...useful tools, until they weren't.

Stalin. Mao. ...and so many others. The information is out there.

The Holocaust is prioritized mainly because as a nation, we're very Euro-centric. I, myself, trace much of my ancestry to Germany/Prussia/Alsace-Lorraine parts of Europe, along with Irish, Scottish, and Native American. As does much of American society. It's not right, but it's the way it is, unfortunately. Up to us, to change that.