Montana Bill 235. Scientific Fact Bill

a reply to: frogs453

Soo in other words, the basis of scientific research is scientific theory that is open to be proven, without that anybody that can come out and establish their own independent truth do not need to really prove it.

Wow, we are just going backwards, America has really been run by morons and money interest, but we all know that, now they want to get into our schools' system.

I am sure Pharma is financing this ideology, for their own benefit.

a reply to: beyondknowledge

Except the rules of gravity break down at the quantum level. Hell, we don't even really understand what causes gravity. For all we know, our current understanding of why things fall when dropped is at the same level as blaming an imbalance in humours as the cause of illness.

a reply to: zosimov

If kids are feeling bad about history then the problem lies in the presentation, not the subject.

Aren't kids supposed to be upset about how Jesus was tortured and killed, or is it the presentation that makes the story so compelling?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I feel that you made a rather absurd argument.

I wouldn't recommend going too far in depth when relating any gruesome details about anyone's death to kids, and history and most likely religious classes as well usually consider age when deciding whether a certain aspect of history is appropriate to cover yet or not.

Certainly, if Jewish children were made to feel guilty or somehow responsible for Jesus's murder, I'd unequivocally say it was a horrible presentation. Don't you agree?

Human history is tragic, and sadness is an appropriate reaction to tragedy, but it is neither offensive nor uncomfortable (unless one uses this information as a way of introspectively examining human, and therefore one's own, nature).

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: frogs453

It's only "uncomfortable" when one takes history personally. History is an objective subject not meant to be taken personally. If one reads about history in an empathetic or compassionate way, there's nothing wrong with that, but the past is not offensive and can only be amended by avoiding such mistakes in the future.

If kids are feeling bad about history then the problem lies in the presentation, not the subject.

I agree, however it can be uncomfortable to hear some of history. All it takes it seems is one child to complain to their parent and next thing you know they want to replace the word "slavery" with "involuntarily relocated". Can't remember which bill that one is in. Maybe Texas.

a reply to: frogs453

I agree with you also, in that changing a word for "political correctness" is absurd.

The word slave comes from the word slavic, which would make a great history lesson for the parents of children hurt by a word about the importance and meaning behind language.

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: frogs453

I agree with you also, in that changing a word for "political correctness" is absurd.

The word slave comes from the word slavic, which would make a great history lesson for the parents of children hurt by a word about the importance and meaning behind language.

Yep and well the thing is, you're downplaying and changing history by doing so. They were slaves, they were chained, beaten and shipped like animals here and torn from their children and families. Involuntary relocated my a**.

Anyway, back on topic.

a reply to: frogs453

Frankly, I wouldn't trust a teacher as far as I could throw one.

I can imagine this pissing off the "boys are girls" crowd though.

AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

a reply to: zosimov

Certainly, if Jewish children were made to feel guilty or somehow responsible for Jesus's murder, I'd unequivocally say it was a horrible presentation. Don't you agree?

No, I don't agree. The purpose of the story is to invoke guilt. And, we're talking about K-12. That's a wide brush, a really wide brush.

The fact that a man named Hitler was able to turn a whole country into murderous bigots is disturbing and uncomfortable, and we teach about Hitler and the holocaust because it happened, and it can happen again.

The fact that Americans hunted Native Americans like animals, in order to destroy their existence. their culture, their roots for the hope of a supremely white and expansive America should make history student uncomfortable.

The purpose of teaching history is not about teaching kids to be proud of their ancestors and repeat their ways and means, but to believe they can do better than their ancestors. We teach history so that we don't repeat it.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
We teach history so that we don't repeat it.

And yet, we continue to repeat it.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: beyondknowledge

Except the rules of gravity break down at the quantum level.

Where did you read that, or from who did you hear it? The "rules of gravity" don't "break down" at the quantum level, and in fact aren't really at issue in that area of study. The laws that govern the movement of nuclei and electrons are described as the Strong interactive force, which is just another of the four main forces described by serious scientific inquiry into physics and quantum mechanics. I think you meant to say gravity is not as strong as the weak and strong forces, and in comparison at the quantum level is overwhelmed by the forces that bind neutrons and protons together, and keeps electrons in their orbit , which would be more accurate.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: beyondknowledge
Hell, we don't even really understand what causes gravity. For all we know, our current understanding of why things fall when dropped is at the same level as blaming an imbalance in humours as the cause of illness.

Again, to correct, yes, we know exactly what causes gravity: it caused by the warping of the fabric of spacetime, which is felt by other objects that move into vicinity of relatively more massive or less massive bodies.

I think you meant to say "we don't know how gravity is propagated", via waveform or particle or some other unknown phenomenon, which again would be a more factual assertion.

For those that would like to learn more about the physics of gravity, the weak and strong atomic forces, and real hard science, please avail yourself of books (that are friendly to the layperson) on the subject such as Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" and Einstein's "The Evolution of Physics". two of which I have read that are excellent treatments on the theories on gravity.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

The human story is full of conquests, slavery, and murder. And we repeat the story in a magnitude of iterations, including today, whether we hear about it or not due to human nature.
Learning about the objective facts of history teaches us more about humanity than it does about our particular ancestries, and I disagree that Jewish kids should be made to feel guilty or responsible for Jesus's murder.

a reply to: zosimov

and I disagree that Jewish kids should be made to feel guilty or responsible for Jesus's murder.

Christianity seeks to inflict guilt on everybody, not just Jewish kids. That's the purpose of the crucifixion story. He died for YOU!
All Judeo-Christian religions depend on guilt to survive.

My point is, it's okay for TPTB to use guilt to groom children when it comes to Christian ideology, but it's not okay to make them feel bad about history and ugly human nature. It's okay to teach them about Creationism but not about the theory of Evolution.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Odd.

I've always seen Christianity as offering salvation, not guilt.

But you do you, boo.

a reply to: DBCowboy

You're obviously not Catholic.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

The purpose of teaching history is not about teaching kids to be proud of their ancestors and repeat their ways and means, but to believe they can do better than their ancestors. We teach history so that we don't repeat it.

butwhatif The History taught is false and inaccurate and exaggerated? 😁

What are the consequences THEN? 😁

a reply to: Xcalibur254

A scientific fact is one you can build upon... its never ending.

The definition of a scientific fact is different from the definition of fact, as it implies knowledge. A scientific fact is the result of a repeatable careful observation or measurement by experimentation or other means, also called empirical evidence. These are central to building scientific theories.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Odd.

I've always seen Christianity as offering salvation, not guilt.

But you do you, boo.

Then, why does mankind need salvation through Jesus' sacrificial death?

a reply to: xuenchen

The History taught is false and inaccurate and exaggerated?

You mean like the 6-day creation of the Universe, a virgin birth or a resurrection after 3 days of being dead? Like Noah's Ark and a world-wide flood or "God" bombing Sodom and Gomorrah silly for having gay sex?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

clever deflection choke-quote. Not "Like", what actually happens is the question. 😁