The Historical Reason Why Calling Haiti A %-Hole Really Is Incredibly Racist.

originally posted by: Painterz

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DerBeobachter

Bluntone is right!

Group after group goes to Haiti and has forever to try to help the people there. But nothing there ever changes. The island is fatally corrupt on its own. Its own people. Until that fact begins to change and that has to start with Haiti's people, then nothing anyone does will make a lasting impact.

And that patterns repeats itself in country after country.

It's beginning to repeat itself in the US. I imagine its repeating itself in your EU countries right now for all you are denying it and attempting to put yourself on a pseudo-moral pedestal at the moment.

And what you are doing is echoing precisely why what Trump said was racist. You're saying 'The haitians are poor because they are less good than rich white people'. You're saying the Haitians are poor because there is something inherently flawed about being Haitian, about being black. That black people are poor because they are black.

This is a racist statement. I'm sorry if that upsets you. But it's true. Black people in this world are mostly poor because rich white nations have kept them poor in order to steal their wealth.

No that is not what he is saying at all. You are just inserting race in their.

The fact that haitians are "black" has nothing at all to do with them not running a good country.

If I say, "Its the people in coal countries own fault that their towns are falling apart" am I saying whites are inferior to blacks?

Of course not.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Painterz

I dismiss your premise that Trump was being horribly racist by saying this.

Even if you are right in the OP that its other fault that haiti is poor and therefore not acceptable to say that (which I disagree with) it is not racist to say that they are poor.

The point is that not just out in the real world, but even here on ATS, we see people shouting about trumps words tenfold if not more than hillarys actions.

As is your right.

I agree with you that it is not racist to say somebody is poor. I do however think it is racist to say they are poor because they are black and Haitian. Which is what Trump said when he compared the countries of Haiti and 'Africa' to Norway.


But I'm clearly never going to convince Trump supporters that a core tenet of Trumpism is the politics of white grievance. So I'm not going to try. I could be here all day listing all the racist things Trump has ever said in his life.


But thank you for engaging and reading my post. I hope you have a great day.

a reply to: Painterz

Disregarding the risk of being called a racist....

Haiti is a ###thole.

originally posted by: Painterz

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Painterz

I dismiss your premise that Trump was being horribly racist by saying this.

Even if you are right in the OP that its other fault that haiti is poor and therefore not acceptable to say that (which I disagree with) it is not racist to say that they are poor.

The point is that not just out in the real world, but even here on ATS, we see people shouting about trumps words tenfold if not more than hillarys actions.

As is your right.

I agree with you that it is not racist to say somebody is poor. I do however think it is racist to say they are poor because they are black and Haitian. Which is what Trump said when he compared the countries of Haiti and 'Africa' to Norway.


But I'm clearly never going to convince Trump supporters that a core tenet of Trumpism is the politics of white grievance. So I'm not going to try. I could be here all day listing all the racist things Trump has ever said in his life.


But thank you for engaging and reading my post. I hope you have a great day.

I challenge you to show me anywhere in trumps statement where he mentioned any skin color.

And you mention white grievance?

You just got done saying the major reason most black people are poor is because of white people.

Who is pushing grievance now?

When will the USA do like nearly every other country and not allow legal immigration unless you:

Prove health status (no communicable diseases or illness)
Prove ability to support yourself
Clean criminal record
etc

For some reason it's fine for most everyone else to do this but if it's the USA we're all a bunch of racists.

originally posted by: Painterz

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DerBeobachter

Bluntone is right!

Group after group goes to Haiti and has forever to try to help the people there. But nothing there ever changes. The island is fatally corrupt on its own. Its own people. Until that fact begins to change and that has to start with Haiti's people, then nothing anyone does will make a lasting impact.

And that patterns repeats itself in country after country.

It's beginning to repeat itself in the US. I imagine its repeating itself in your EU countries right now for all you are denying it and attempting to put yourself on a pseudo-moral pedestal at the moment.

And what you are doing is echoing precisely why what Trump said was racist. You're saying 'The haitians are poor because they are less good than rich white people'. You're saying the Haitians are poor because there is something inherently flawed about being Haitian, about being black. That black people are poor because they are black.

This is a racist statement. I'm sorry if that upsets you. But it's true. Black people in this world are mostly poor because rich white nations have kept them poor in order to steal their wealth.

Is it racist to say that these countries will forever be "#holes" because richer countries send aid and therefore nullify the need to self improve? That if we didn't offer the best and brightest of these countries a way out, in order to contribute to our societies, They could instead help to improve their own?

a reply to: Painterz

Haiti is a hell hole. Ask a Haitian.
You guys see racism everywhere.

a reply to: Painterz

OK, perhaps I should have said the UK started the African slave trade. What was it, slaves to sugar to something? Anyway nobody gave a crap about Haiti before today, so this is faux outrage. You can guarantee every leader/politician all over the world has thought or said the same thing. It's just like Somalia and Live Aid. People were outraged so they had a concert and felt better. It appeased their guilt maybe.
Anyway, to my point, this was not racism, but just another business decision. Money is colorblind, it just so happens that the most exploitable humans seem to be those of the brown persuasion.


On a side note....I take exception to your characterization of the lend/lease act. A lot of good people died defending your soil. It is not our fault your government kept its own people in austerity until the 60's because they were trying to keep the Empire together. And in the end you left a mess in India/Pakistan with over a million people getting killed. In the mean time German has kicked your tails in the manufacturing sector.

Has anyone here ever talked to a Haitian legal immigrant?

Ask them why they left, and if they ever go back to visit

Most of them will answer because "Haiti is crappy*" to one or both questions

This ties into another hot topic. If one's reality is that Haiti IS NOT a craptastic. i can understand why you think Trump is mentally unstable, because his reality is 180 degrees different than yours. Since almost everyone reading this will never go to Haiti, even if they won a trip as prize, I would say that everyone's actions supports Trumps idea of reality. That means that if you are trying to make the point of Haiti not being craptastic, what does that say about your reality on this subject and probably other subjects??




*pick any other synonym of crappy, if you like

a reply to: Painterz

You do realize that happened well over 100 years ago? 1804 to be exact.

a reply to: SocratesJohnson

I think the irony here is not so much that people are trying to defend Haiti was an awesome place, but that they're jumping through hoops to say that "Why yes, Haiti is indeed horrible, but it's all our fault and that's why it's so bad for the president to call it a horrible place!"

Or they're just trying to find ways to say it's racist to call Haiti a horrible place.

a reply to: Painterz

Actually when deciding whether trumps , very commonly used term is racist. The most important question is how did trump Intend that statement..

For us to assume it is racist, that requires us to establish a couple facts..

A) that trump knows the history of Haiti..

Which I would be flipping shocked if trump can even tell you that Haiti is the first and maybe only successful state formed from a slave rebellion.

B) that trump intended it as a racist statement..

Intention matters in subjective matters..



As to your history of Haiti..

My suspicion is the slaves cared more about the rapes and brutality than they did the European’s profit margins..

Racism is defined as thinking that some or all races are inferior/superior to one or more races..


If something doesn’t fit that definition. Then they are not a racist (being a racist). They are A holes, misinformed, oblivious, exc....


I don’t think we help anyone by throwing unfounded or lazy accusations..

For example.. assuming the baffoon That is trump had ANY knowledge of Haitian history. So you make the jump to it being a racist statement is lazy..

Rather than you trying to communicate the fact he is too stupid to know the greater context tward his statement. You cop out and just call it racist..

My favorite and most frustrating example of lazy left wing talking points is BLM..

Rather than taking the time to communicate that,

“We have an issue with police brutality and accountability that effects everyone but that ends up effecting African Americans at about twice the rate per capita.”

They decide to be lazy about it and say,

“We have a problem with poice shooting unarmed black men”

WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH POLICE SHOOTING UNARMED PEOPLE, THE BLACK PART JUST CLOUDIES THE WATER, and unintentionally tells 85% of the US population,

“This is not an issue that concerns you and your children..this only effects black children, so nothing to see here!!”

Which is absolutely not the case..

If you think some jumpy cop won’t blow your blonde haired blue eyed kid away because he shifted wrong. Then get a comindation for bravery.... your crazy.

originally posted by: Painterz

originally posted by: YouSir
a reply to: Painterz


Ummm...WE...didn't do a damned thing to the Haitians...

I had no hand in any of that...did you...?

I'm tired of being lumped in with the greedy plunderers...

This is a they situation...no We or I...THEY...

Perhaps if you were leeching off of the public dole...like any good government union stooge...you might have a case...and you might be/no doubt are...part of the problem...


"That's all folks"...

YouSir

America didn't do anything to Haiti?

Perhaps you haven't heard of the 1915 American invasion of Haiti?

During the nineteen years of the U.S. occupation, fifteen thousand Haitians were killed.

The US occupation of Haiti during Operation Uphold Democracy in 94?

Here, try reading this:

www.newyorker.com...



And no, of course YOU PERSONALLY did not have a hand in the system of Empire building that the Western powers did, YOU PERSONALLY did not subjugate foreign nations and steal their wealth. But WE all live in rich Western countries that are rich because of our Empires, in a world filled with mostly poor nations that are poor because we stole all of their wealth and used it to build the infrastructure of our nations back during Empire days.

We didn't do it. But we do enjoy the advantages of it.

Ummm...true that...

That's the way the world works...regardless of whether I like it or not...

I merely wanted you to go on record with that correction/clarification...

The big problem that I see...with OP's like this is that somehow I...you...and everyone else in the west need to some how live in a pool of guilt because of the past deeds of those that rule...

Why the hell should I or anyone else have to shoulder that burden...
That's why the UN and the leftist rags are so up in arms about this...because leftist mentality dictates that responsibility for the past resides on the shoulders of the present...and that you and I personally need to correct those affronts...

Human beings are territorial lactating mammals...
Every familial unit practices territorialism...that's why we all have our posh caves that we shut the rest of the world out of every day...and only invite the world in through media portals like the one we're conversing through now...







YouSir

originally posted by: Painterz

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Painterz

I dismiss your premise that Trump was being horribly racist by saying this.

Even if you are right in the OP that its other fault that haiti is poor and therefore not acceptable to say that (which I disagree with) it is not racist to say that they are poor.

The point is that not just out in the real world, but even here on ATS, we see people shouting about trumps words tenfold if not more than hillarys actions.

As is your right.

I agree with you that it is not racist to say somebody is poor. I do however think it is racist to say they are poor because they are black and Haitian. Which is what Trump said when he compared the countries of Haiti and 'Africa' to Norway.


But I'm clearly never going to convince Trump supporters that a core tenet of Trumpism is the politics of white grievance. So I'm not going to try. I could be here all day listing all the racist things Trump has ever said in his life.


But thank you for engaging and reading my post. I hope you have a great day.

white grievance? really? because white people are scared of minorities and because they're all racist. if you think that and the dems run on only social issues and all white people are the problem they're gonna lose again and no open door immigration policy is gonna change that


and saying Haiti is a s hole isn't racist it's truth but when you see racism and sexism everywhere you tend to be illogical. Haitians are basically running away from haiti but I will agree saying that as president is dumb

a reply to: and14263

Of course he was. Every move he makes is against Brown skinned people. The only #hole here is the one in the whitehouse. But he once again turned the table on discussing the Russians collusion and the now verified dossier. So good for him.

Here's a story. My Cousin goes to Haiti with his Church pretty much every year to help this one community. For at least the 10 years I've know he's done this even he says they haven't accomplished much. Most of the time when they come back, they spend their efforts just repairing/rebuilding the things for the prior year that have either been not taken care of or plundered by people.

It's like they wait for them to come back and help, he's told me. The 11 months between visits, nothing gets repaired improved ect. They used to send money in the time they weren't there for projects, but when they got there that money was gone and the work wasn't done.

If that's isn't a hole, I don't know what to say. They try to help and over ten years haven't seen much in the way of improvements.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: and14263

Of course he was. Every move he makes is against Brown skinned people. The only #hole here is the one in the whitehouse. But he once again turned the table on discussing the Russians collusion and the now verified dossier. So good for him.

I think Obama's record against brown skinned people in Libya and Syria was far worse than anything Trump has done.

Go take a look....... has Trump taken modern societies and reduced them to rubble, slave trading and sex slaves?

Drops mic....

originally posted by: YouSir
And no, of course YOU PERSONALLY did not have a hand in the system of Empire building that the Western powers did, YOU PERSONALLY did not subjugate foreign nations and steal their wealth. But WE all live in rich Western countries that are rich because of our Empires, in a world filled with mostly poor nations that are poor because we stole all of their wealth and used it to build the infrastructure of our nations back during Empire days.

We didn't do it. But we do enjoy the advantages of it.

The problem with this part of the modern (leftist) anti-colonialist logic is it acts like Europe invented imperialism / slavery / etc.

This stuff goes back to Day 1; its the very definition of "civilizations". Check out my series The Darkest Patterns, for real, and watch it go on since the dawn of 'time'.

Europe just so happened to rise to the cream at the top the past couple hundred years.

But they didnt invent the world backwardness either (although the United States sure actually has been helping it along via The Wars of Drugs (the one thing we should all agree on putting a stop to).

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: and14263

Of course he was. Every move he makes is against Brown skinned people. The only #hole here is the one in the whitehouse. But he once again turned the table on discussing the Russians collusion and the now verified dossier. So good for him.

If you're a millionaire like you claim to be then you prove with every post of yours that you don't need intelligence to be rich. How about listing all those things he does against "brown skinned people."