It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by mwm1331
And you know what sminkey? I am glad your are happy with the way things are and the way they are trending. I support it fully. I want Europe to become as socialist as possible.
I'm sure you all are very happy right now. Most addicts are very very happy, untill they day he wakes up and realises he just sucked some guys cock for 5 bucks to buy crackrock.
Tell me sminkey that you don't see the rest of europe becomming more socialist.
I'm not referring to the UK so much as I am euro countries (euro as in the currency)
Tell me sminkey is germany becomming more or less socialist?
What about france?
What about brussels?
Can you honestly say the trend in europe as a whole is not torwards socialism?
BTW I never said capitilism as practiced in the US is the only way, just the best way.
- What, do you mean Belgium?
Or the EU administration which is based there?
Like most Americans you appear to be showing some confusion about the EU and how it works in the context of 25 sovereign member nations.
- This is where you simply leave reality, IMHO, I'm afraid.
Europe may be 'socialist' by US standards but then the US leapt to an extreme so long ago we could care less what many of you guys think.
There are 25 countries that are members of the EU now.....so, only the UK is exempt?
Germany is a capitalist country with a mixed economy and is reducing the 'share' of it's public sector.
Sorry but that is how you measure this stuff actually and there is the truth of it.
Oh sure, that labour market 'flexibility' is nothing like what the US has but then we still (just) have governments that respond to the public demands and our people will not stand for US 'standards'.
Enjoy your Mc-jobs.
I cannot help it if you know nothing of this but this has been going on for years under the EU's 'growth and stability pact'.....a pact so tight that it is currently being looked at for a lossening reform.
When one moves away from simplistically comparing paper wealth and factors in quality of life issues we in Europe do very very well on that score by just about every measure going.
Enjoy the benefits you think you get from your 'system' - if things are so great where you are why complain about how things are with us?
Might it be that there are those in the US who have woken up to the fact that a properly integrated EU equipped with it's own major currency is no longer to be shoved about by the US?
Originally posted by mwm1331
When I said brussels I was referring to the EU administraton whch as we both well know is based in brussels
Granted the US comes as close to pure capitalism as any country in the world if not more so,
However it does not change the fact that the EU as a whole is addicted to socialised, educaton,healthcare,retirement,etc.
Yes but the majority of those countries including all of the new members, The UK, and the scandinavian countries are not yet integrated into the single currency.
However you and I both know that that the government is not the only symptom of socialism.
What about the massive power of the labor unions?
Do you think that perhaps the work stopages,strikes, pay and benefits increases that are a nearly bannual affair might be just a tiny bit counterproductive when viewed in the context of labor costs?
And therin lies the foundation of your downfall, The fact is that the people in most EU countres want things which are counterproductive to a strong economy.
By continuously requesting and recieving less hours, higher pay, more vacatn time, more benefits etc. European workers are driving the costs of labor n the core EU countries so high that it is unsustainable. Is it any wonder that all of the new member nations are developing countries with very low labor costs? How long do you think those labor costs however will stay low?
As for Mcjobs, the only people working at Mcjobs are those too lazy, stupid, or useless to get a good one.
You see sminkey in the US if a man is too lazy to work, too dumb to work, or too useless to work we put him in a Mcjob as you call it. Whereas in europe you pay him either to not work at all, or to do a job where he works 4 hours a day while getting paid for 8.
Why do you think so many factories are leaving germany and france and moving to romania, hungary, etc?
ah yes the growth and stabillity pact which though written and ratified by germany and france, is impossible for those countries to actually live up too?
whats amazing is that you just stated the crack in europes foundaton as a strength. Yes europeans do have a very high standard of living, even better you don't have to earn it. I mean when education, healthcare, welfare, unemployment etc is so generous and so readily avalable why even work? Why achieve something which benefits the nation when you can live well just by going through the motions? Why have any ambition when the system is set up in such a way that the underachievers have a better lfe that those who actually accomplish thing?
Why open a business, deal with the stress and headaches, pay those ridiculously high taxes when you can leech of someone elses company instead?
I'm not complaning sminkey I'm encouraging. I live in europe and as such I see first hand how much you all pay from your ridiculous VAT, which you have to pay in addition to your already ludicrous federal and local income taxes, not too mention road taxes, property taxes, land taxes, estate taxes, breathing taxes toilet taxes etc.
All of which BTW are higher than the comparable taxes in the united states in those instances where we actually have a comparable tax. But there is no way in hell I would ever pyut myself in a position where I am required to pay taxes to your governemnts. In truth most of the little I pay in VAT I get refunded anyway so its not too bad for me, allthough I do feel genuinly sorry for those of you under these regimes. (one of the reasons I offer tax planning in addition to our mainline investment services)
Europe will always be Americas bitch. No matter what you all may fantasize about.
The simple fact is it is impossible for the EU to cmpete with the US on a level playing field, too much of your resources are drained by your subservience to the dregs of society.
Its one of the reasons the EU government tries to offer unfair advantages to your local industres whenever possible. BTW great deal you guys struck with airbus on the A-380, I mean since it will never make a profit the 4 billion they borrowed will never have to be paid back. Very impressive.
Originally posted by mwm1331
That America is the greatest nation on earth.
Originally posted by BLUELol
Daystar, you may aswell save your breath with the unpleasant "anti-american", "anti-freedom", "american bashing". you're obviously just jealous.
Originally posted by Daystar
Originally posted by BLUELol
Daystar, you may aswell save your breath with the unpleasant "anti-american", "anti-freedom", "american bashing". you're obviously just jealous.
oh, yeah silly me! i totally misread the part where i actually had a pop at the Yanks!
at which point was i "anti-american"?
at which point was i "anti- freedom"? (lol)
all i said was that theres a trend of condescendency appearing, and my point is that europe is not the hell hole some people would like others to think, and that the USA is hardly immune to criticism.
so please, before you decide to go in guns blazing, actually make an effort to read my post and understand what i was getting at
then you may not look like such an idiot
We are never going to 'compete' on the basis of cheapest labour costs.
The world is full of people and countries who will work for buttons.
So we don't tend to chase too much of that type of thing.
You're welcome to it if you like but there is no money in it.
.and once again this is an example of where you guys lose touch with reality. You need people to pump you fuel, waitress, drive trucks, work your supermarkets and basically be consumers for everyone else. Those people are as entitled to a decent standard of living like anyone else.
No they don't work as hard as everyone else and you are deluded if you think so.
That is simply not my experience at all and I know of no-one working in continental Europe who says otherwise, it's a different ethos I grant you but those guys work as hard as any. I have also friends who work for US firms and the stories they relate......!
My point is this, anecdotal 'evidence' is as unreliable as hell.
Your negative 'experience' of European firms is about as valid and conclusive as mine about US firms.
Because most people don't wish to live their lives as a "leech", most understand that the mean and low-level existance as a "leech" - for all the myths surrounding the possibility - comes nowhere near a fully engaged and contributing life here.
hah hah hah hah
We pay our taxes and enjoy levels of crime waaaaay below yours (especially on continental Europe), levels of personal freedom waaaaaay beyond the 'Jesusland' and 'Patriot Acted 1 & 2' hysteria the USA is currently enmeshing itself with and generally have a quality of life we would not swap for yours.
Originally posted by mwm1331
Sminkey its not about being the "cheapest" no western country will ever be the cheapest in terms of labor costs, however even in western contries labor costs must be low enough for the company to turn a profit. The fact is European workers are the most expensive yet east productive on the planet.
Decent yes, extravagent no. The fact is the jobs you just mentioned are entry level jobs anyone over the age of 24-25 still working as a gas station pumper, working at a supermarket at the counter etc. is a loser
No they don't work as hard as everyone else and you are deluded if you think so.
And yet most do. They work as few hours as possible ding as little as possible while demanding the hghest pay possible, sounds like a leech to me
hah hah hah hah
Sorry try again your murder rate is higher (the fact that people get stabbed nstead of shot is irrelevant, yes we have more shooting however per person you have more murders, robberies, home invasions etc.
Washington DC has come top in a poll of the world's murder capitals.
A survey conducted by the UK Home Office of 20 European and nine North American cities put the US capital way out in front with a murder rate of 69.3 per 100,000 population.
That suggests Washington is about 170 times more dangerous than the Belgian capital, Brussels, which came bottom with 0.4 murders per 100,000.
London came fifth from bottom with an average of 2.1 cases of murder, infanticide or manslaughter per 100,000.
Belfast was the most dangerous UK city in the survey with a death rate of 4.4. Edinburgh's figure was 2.4.
Washington was a long way ahead of the second most murderous city, Philadelphia, which had a rate of 27.4.
The nine American cities in the survey all came in the top 12 of the poll. San Diego had the lowest rate with 8 homicides per 100,000.
Only three European cities came out worse.
According to police statistics for 1996 --
the U.S. murder rate was 5.7 times higher than England's (0.074 per 1,000 population versus 0.013) (figure 5)
the U.S. rape rate was about 3 times higher than England's (0.71 per 1,000 female population versus 0.22) (figure 6)
the U.S. robbery rate was 1.4 times higher than England's (2.0 versus 1.4) (figure 7)
the English assault rate was 1.1 times higher than the U.S. rate (4.4 versus 3.9) (figure 8)
the English burglary rate was 2.4 times higher than the U.S. rate (22.4 versus 9.4) (figure 9)
the English motor vehicle theft rate was 1.8 times higher than the U.S. rate (9.5 versus 5.3) (figure 10).
As for freedom................ are you on drugs?
Originally posted by UK Wizard
it's sminkeypinkey vs mwm1331
the fight has begun, and only one will remain standing
you two should have a official debate maybe along the lines 'Who runs their countries better: the US or UK?'