"Grading for Equity" - Portland Schools Mull Banning Zeroes for Cheating and Not Doing Work

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone

NOT THAT.

YES THAT. It's basic psychology. You learn when you fail. You learn when something hurts. You learn to not do it again or to do it differently. Pretty basic stuff. Evolutionary.

Not children, they do the opposite. They need self-esteem and confidence building, encouragement and extra tutoring if necessary for the path to success.

Now take college aged students and adults, yes, failure out there in the real world where you have to fend for yourself and 'yes' failure is a hard lesson learned.

a reply to: quintessentone

But you just said no kid left behind?

There is no generalizing going on here, that is how failure works. Not every child can be helped, that is the sad reality we live in.

Until we can find a way to pay teachers enough to want to be there and get enough teachers where each one only has a handful of students, there will always be those that fall through the cracks.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone

It's called 'no child left behind' and that is the mission that every school should take on.

Passing failing students isn't what 'no child left behind' is about.
And passing failing students is only ENABLING bad behavior.
It doesn't help the child at all.

Nobody is passing failing students, they would just have to redo the same year again, as per usual.

originally posted by: quintessentone
an "F" for failure without other solutions and plans in place,

Teaching a child they can pass without doing the work or that they can pass by cheating isn't a 'solution'. An F is motivation to do better next time. Learn by failing. Put the video games away and do the homework. Basic psychology.

a reply to: quintessentone

No child left behind only builds false self esteem, false confidence, and encourages them to continue on doing the bare minimum to "succeed".

a reply to: quintessentone

Thats not what no child left behind is.......

originally posted by: PorkChop96
Not every child can be helped, that is the sad reality we live in. .

and a kid who just doesn't do homework; just doesn't do school work; just wants to cheat to get by ... well that kid has to want to help him/her self. The schools can't do it all on their own. Something has to come from the kid.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Of course, if not anyone can excel NO ONE SHAL! Absolutely abhorrent.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

But you just said no kid left behind?

There is no generalizing going on here, that is how failure works. Not every child can be helped, that is the sad reality we live in.

Until we can find a way to pay teachers enough to want to be there and get enough teachers where each one only has a handful of students, there will always be those that fall through the cracks.

No kid left to me is a child left with an "F" grade and no where to go from there - that is a child left behind. That is not what is going on in schools as they can repeat the same year, or summer school, or other ways to progress/pass. Getting rid of the grading system seems logical to me.

a reply to: quintessentone

I don't get what you're saying.

If a kid doesn't hand in the work, or cheats they get a fail, zero score, and that reflects on their overall grading.

If you start to take away zeros how will they categorize groups of kids to teach?

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
an "F" for failure without other solutions and plans in place,

Teaching a child they can pass without doing the work or that they can pass by cheating isn't a 'solution'. An F is motivation to do better next time. Learn by failing. Put the video games away and do the homework. Basic psychology.

There should be no homework, there should be work at one's own pace within a longer timeframe.

More is to be realized within the educational system than psychology and I will continue to advocate for school officials and teachers, the ones on the front lines, to implement plans to try and fix or figure all of this out for the benefit and success of "ALL" children.

originally posted by: quintessentone

I also homeschooled my kids before kindergarten too to give them a good head start, but what's your main point about rules in the public school classroom or lack thereof? Do you really think the school system leaves any learning responsibility of the child to the parents who are probably too exhausted to do much or have forgotten their fifth grade math?

One option is to go all Japanese-like. School starts at 0600 and goes on until 1800. This is actually better for the parents as it gives them a wide range to work without 2 hours of daycare etc to offset a few hours when their kids get out of school and they are still at work. Hell make it 0600 to 2000...poor kids eat 3 real meals a day at school.

The problem is we keep seeing less and less with nothing to replace it. Now it is like every Wednesday is a down day and 1/2 day Friday... And we have the longest summer break than I think compared to any other country.

So we do away with homework that I really disliked as a parent since the teachers were always lazy to grade and my kids would keep showing an F because it wasn't graded yet and I'm like did you turn it in? Then we had teachers who would misplace the homework emailed to them, as I can see the sent email. So, yes I'm not a fan of the whole homework as it has evolved over the past 20 years, but less and less is not the answer.

a reply to: quintessentone

All of those that you are saying requires effort from the child that they are not giving in the first place. If they don't want to help themselves, how is anyone else supposed to help them?

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

No child left behind only builds false self esteem, false confidence, and encourages them to continue on doing the bare minimum to "succeed".

Generalizing without studies. Can you find some studies that prove this?

a reply to: quintessentone

Do you not have deadlines that have to be met at your job? Have you never worked in a facility with deadlines?

If you haven't let me clue you in on something.

If you work in a factory with deadlines and you miss one due to lack of effort or just not caring, you will be fired (given an F). Deadlines in school prepare you for life outside of the classroom.

Comrade Student received an A and other Comrade Student received an F.

In order for equity, both Comrade students will get a C.

It is Glorious Teachings of Federal Level Education.

a reply to: quintessentone

Look around you!

Kids that have grown up getting participation trophies only want things handed to them, most have not worked for a thing in their entire life and when thrown into the real world they struggle and can't figure out why.

If you need a "study" to show you what anyone with a pair of eyes can plainly see, you need to get your eyes checked and check back into reality not the delusional little fairy land you live in.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: quintessentone

I don't get what you're saying.

If a kid doesn't hand in the work, or cheats they get a fail, zero score, and that reflects on their overall grading.

If you start to take away zeros how will they categorize groups of kids to teach?

By identifying where children need the help, such as DNA (did not attend), C (cheated), HNS (homework not submitted) - codes where parents will get a snapshot of which areas their children need help and guidance. Leave it up to the school system and/or teacher how to handle each child's 'path to success' identifying codes and put plans in place to remedy those problems.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

Do you not have deadlines that have to be met at your job? Have you never worked in a facility with deadlines?

If you haven't let me clue you in on something.

If you work in a factory with deadlines and you miss one due to lack of effort or just not caring, you will be fired (given an F). Deadlines in school prepare you for life outside of the classroom.

Deadlines, in my experience, can be moved back, forward or postponed.

originally posted by: quintessentone

There should be no homework, there should be work at one's own pace within a longer timeframe.

So at the end of the official school day, there are 2 hours of workbooks done with support. Seems charter schools can do all this well, the bloated bureaucracy of the general school system makes it exorbitant in cost.