mason challenge for terrorism and things

Truth- many masons are O.K. guys. The ones that are 'superior' would be superior anyway except in an extremely rare case. Visit your lodge- get off the Internet. Ask the first three masons you come to what do they think about:

a mason letting a known butcher (mass murderer) go free if the murderer was a mason?
a mason lying in court to protect a brother mason accused of child molestation?
a mason subverting his fellows for personal gain?
a mason helping terrorists if the terrorists are also masons and their cause needs help?

I will provide case in point on each of these within a few days- when's lodge? Tuesday night?

Fine- Wednesday give me a post and I'll GIVE you a little masonic education!

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Truth- many masons are O.K. guys. The ones that are 'superior' would be superior anyway except in an extremely rare case.

Oh, my, god... the truth is out. Thanks

Visit your lodge- get off the Internet. Ask the first three masons you come to what do they think about:
a mason letting a known butcher (mass murderer) go free if the murderer was a mason?

They wouldn't. That is the consensus. and i asked a bunch more than three. the man would be turned over to the police and masonic charges filed against him.

a mason lying in court to protect a brother mason accused of child molestation?

See above. It would not happen, and if it did, both would be kicked out of masonry for unmasonic conduct.

a mason subverting his fellows for personal gain?

Same as above. If it occured, the man would be kicked out of masonry. It is rare that a man is found to be less than honest, but when he is found, he is kicked out.

a mason helping terrorists if the terrorists are also masons and their cause needs help?

I guess it depends on what you define a terrorist as... but in today's terms, no, it would get a man kicked out of masonry.

I will provide case in point on each of these within a few days- when's lodge? Tuesday night?

Wednesday, but I made calls... wonderful invention, the telephone.

Fine- Wednesday give me a post and I'll GIVE you a little masonic education!

Oh, I am sure you will try, but the fact is that if it happens, and a lodge finds out, the man is ejected from masonry. No one is claiming that masons are perfect, we are men, seeking to become better men. When a bad one is found, and it is rare, but it does happen, we take action to eject them from masonry.

So, while you may have a couple of examples of bad masons, i could offer you literally MILLIONS of examples of good masons. The actions of one mason do not convict the rest of us, any more than YOUR actions as a christian convict the rest of us for your poor, dishonorable actions.

A mason is not masonry.

But thanks for trying to convict all of us for the actions of a few... do all black men stand guilty because of the racist actions of YOURSELF and, lets say, Louis Farakan? No, certainly not, and neither do all masons stand guilty because a very few masons are not the paragons the we strive to be in our lives.

So, for every one bad mason you offer, I will offer say, ten good masons. It is an easy task... if you want to play numbers

Hey, and Michael, thanks for playing.

I thought a mason was obligated to keep in confidence any information except murder or treason. Correct me if I'm off base, I may very well be.

edit

I have read it posted that this rule applies only to masons in good standing, and not to criminal activities. Why is murder included in this rule, then?

[edit on 6-9-2004 by JonestownRed]

no but you masons stand quiet while stuff like this is happening, why??? www.prisonplanet.tv...

just like in 1933 germany etc etc etc (many occasions, same story) and a modern day example all the way through this war on terror, quiet like church mouses.

quiet except when parroting the 'official' line or version.

Originally posted by JonestownRed
I thought a mason was obligated to keep in confidence any information except murder or treason. Correct me if I'm off base, I may very well be.

edit

I have read it posted that this rule applies only to masons in good standing, and not to criminal activities. Why is murder included in this rule, then?

[edit on 6-9-2004 by JonestownRed]

The obligation is to keep the secrets of a brother as your own, when given toyou in charge as such, murder and treason excepted or words to that effect... different states and rituals include this in various forms.

So what does that mean? In practice, what it means is that if you are a brother and come to me with a problem, say you are having a family problem or money problems, or a problem at work and you need advice or help, that you can tell me in confidence and that I will not go blabbing it through the lodge or in the community.

Murder and treason are excepted from the obligation for obvious reasons. The basic concept in masonry is that it is made up of good,moral, honest men to start with since we investigate every applicant BEFORE allowing them into the fraternity, so the idea that a mason would have a criminal enterprise going and that we would therefore protect him is simply ridiculous.

If I found a brother conducting a criminal enterprise, or committing crimes, I would not hesitate to bring masonic charges against him through the Junior Warden and thence a masonic trial. HOWEVER, if I was told, on the square that such an enterprise were occuring, I would by bound by my honor not to reveal it.

What does that mean? It means that I would have to weigh the honor of my obligation to the brother against the honor I owe to masonry and society and decide on what action to take. Period. It does NOT mean that I would be a party to his crime by sitting on the sidelines and doing nothing while he continued, as that would make me an accessory to his crime.

This whole concept however is very unlikely, as we screen the candidates pretty well to start with, but I would be a liar if I said it never happened that a brother committed a crime. HOwever, when it happens, and it rarely does, the brother is tried and kicked out of the fraternity.

I do understand your concern, but it is misplaced. In the last hundred years in Riverside, there have been TWO masonic trials, both of which saw the brothers kicked out of masonry. But these trials are also conducted INSIDE the lodge, and the public would never be made aware of them... it is, after all, an internal affair, but we do not tolerate immoral or criminal behavior in members of the lodge.

Also, and not to put TOO fine a point on it, here is what Wr. Br. Albert Pike had to say about our duty to the laws of the land:

From Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike, pp 111

It is our duty to obey the laws of our country, and to be careful that prejudice or passion, fancy or affection, error and illusion, be not mistaken for conscience. Nothing is more usual than to pretend conscience in all the actions of man which are public and cannot be concealed. The disobedient refuse to submit to the laws, and they also in many cases pretend conscience; and so disobedience and rebellion become conscience, in which there is neither knowledge nor revelation, nor truth nor charity, nor reason nor religion. Conscience is tied to laws. Right or sure conscience is right reason reduced to practice, and conducting moral actions, while perverse conscience is seated in the fancy or affections--a heap of irregular principles and irregular defects-- and is the same in conscience as deformity is in the body, or peevishness in the affections. It is not enough that the conscience be taught by nature; but it must be taught by God, conducted by reason, made operative by discourse, assisted by choice, instructed by laws and sober principles; and then it is right, and it may be sure. All the general measures of justice, are the laws of God, and therefore they constitute the general rules of government for the conscience; but necessity also hath a large voice in the arrangement of human affairs, and the disposal of human relations, and the dispositions of human laws; and these general measures, like a great river into little streams, are deduced into little rivulets and particularities, by the laws and customs, by the sentences and agreements of men, and by the absolute despotism of necessity, that will not allow perfect and abstract justice and equity to be the sole rule of civil government in an imperfect world; and that must needs be law which is for the greatest good of the greatest number.

Thanks for asking.

[edit on 6/9/04 by theron dunn]

Thanks for clearing that up, Theron. I think that the gist of what you are saying is that even though you would be bound by honor to keep a crime (exceptions being murder or treason) in confidence, it is up to the mason to decide whether it is more dishonorable to keep the secret or disclose it to authorities. Am I getting this right?

Originally posted by JonestownRed
Thanks for clearing that up, Theron. I think that the gist of what you are saying is that even though you would be bound by honor to keep a crime (exceptions being murder or treason) in confidence, it is up to the mason to decide whether it is more dishonorable to keep the secret or disclose it to authorities. Am I getting this right?

That is always true... but again, the plain fact is that it is so RARE for a mason to be involved in a crime that it is just not an issue.

For myself, if it were an ongoing crime, I would call the police and see the junior warden to press charges, even if it meant I might be expelled for violating my obligation (not much chance of that happening, but...) and if it were a crime in the past, I would counsel the brother to turn himself in, depending on the crime. But again, it is a rare circumstance where a mason has committed a crime.

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

Originally posted by esther
Don't you people know that Masons are the only murderers and child molesters on the planet? In fact, you have a set quota to even be considered for membership.

AND I know for a fact that only Masons help each other cover up crimes. No one else would EVER do such a thing.

I also hear they were the ones who taught the priests and bishops the tricks of the trade!
.

I was speaking in a theoretical sense, not inferring that this situation occurs often.

March 10, 2004

-- Guns, a guillotine and mechanical rat traps played a regular role in a secret Masonic ritual that turned deadly for a Long Island man, police said yesterday.

Initiates to the Fellowcraft Club of the Southside Masonic Temple in Patchogue also walked blindfolded along a narrow plank, said Suffolk cops investigating the shooting death of William James, 47, a father of two from Medford.

The Grand Lodge, which oversees all Masonic organizations in New York, declined comment on the tragedy except to say guns are not a normal part of its rituals.

Members of the Patchogue lodge claim they've used guns in some initiation ceremonies for more than 70 years, police said.

An expert on Masonic practices said guns and guillotines play no role in the organization's most ancient traditions.

"Sometimes, lodges come into habits on their own, and no one knows about them," said Richard Fletcher of the Masonic Information Center, which represents Masonic groups nationally.

"We were formed in the Middle Ages, before there were guns," Fletcher said.

*cite:various sources

11,000 plus web pages dealing with only one murder, why?

There were only twice that many dealing with the entire Waco/Branch Davidian mess years after the fact.

Look closely at some of the Patchogue pages and you'll find masonry on the 'band-aide' patrol. From careful explanations of why not to pointers to other things that are worse.

What is wrong with admitting a 'senior mason' killed someone in lodge? It was only in one of those arcane rituals anyway, don't fraternities have accidents too?

To be fair I have distilled the list to only a few, current as of Sept. 8, 2004.

Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it-

�Truth, you want the truth? You can't handle the truth!� (paraphrase Jack (da man) Nicholson)

Lot's of info in these stories. Don't cry later (pro-masons) when your blind side hurts.



Page About Masonry, News & Notes: "Masonic" Shooting in Patchogue, NY...
... "Masonic" Shooting in Patchogue, NY. Several articles about the recent tragic shooting in the basement of a Masonic building in Long Island, New York ...
web.mit.edu... -

Masonic leader suspends lodge where member died in shooting
... NY, was fatally shot participating in an initiation ceremony into a Masonic social club called Fellow Craft in the basement of the Patchogue lodge last Monday ..
freemasonrywatch.org... -

http
... the basement of a Masonic temple in Patchogue last night during ... ... WABC, March 9, 2004) An initiation ritual at a Masonic. temple in Patchogue ended in one man's death ...
www.libertytothecaptives.net... -

Grandview Lodge 618 : Masonic Question of the Month
... Masonic Question of the Month ... RE: TRAGIC INCIDENT AT THE MASONIC HALL IN PATCHOGUE, NY ...
www.grandview618.com... -

Page About Masonry, News & Notes: "Masonic" Shooting in Patchogue,
"Masonic" Shooting in Patchogue, NY. Several articles about the recent tragic shooting in the basement of a Masonic building in Long Island, New...
web.mit.edu... -

Shrine & Freemasonry
MLC - Masonic Leadership Center. website about. Shooting Incident at New York Masonic Lodge Building. The documents on this webpage relate to a shooting incident at a Masonic Lodge building in New York in March 2004. ... RE: TRAGIC INCIDENT AT THE MASONIC
bessel.org... -

Masonic Lodge Is Suspended After Shooting
... He said a panel of Masonic lawyers would examine the history of the Fellow Craft Club at the Patchogue lodge, how long it has existed, how many Masons were ..
freemasonrywatch.org... -

New York Times: A Ritual Gone Fatally Wrong Puts Light on Masonic
PATCHOGUE, N.Y., March 9 � The initiation rituals at the Masonic lodge here had been bathed in secrecy over the years. The climax of Monday night's...
www.freemasonrywatch.org... -

Freemasons
... and a plank he would have been forced to walk.) But instead of everything proceeding cloaked in the usual secrecy, the Patchogue's Southside Masonic Lodge No. ..
www.crystalinks.com... -

New York Times: A Ritual Gone Fatally Wrong Puts Light on Masonic
PATCHOGUE, N.Y., March 9 � The initiation rituals at the Masonic lodge here had been bathed in secrecy over the years. The climax of Monday night's...
www.freemasonrywatch.org... -

ParaPolitics Forum - ParaPolitics - General - Inductee shot dead at...
... THE ASSOCIATED PRESS. PATCHOGUE A secretive initiation ceremony in the basement of a Long Island ... at the Southside Masonic Lodge when Albert Eid, 76, of Patchogue, pulled out a ...
www.parapolitics.info... -

IHT: Rite ends in death at Masonic lodge
Weekly Article IndexMTuWThFWkndClear Clippings I've readClear all Clippings. Rite ends in death at Masonic lodge. Patrick Healy NYT. Thursday, March 11, 2004 ... up secretive society to scrutiny PATCHOGUE, New York The initiation rituals at the Masonic lod
www.iht.com... -

7Online.com: Man Killed During Ritual at Masonic Temple
(Patchogue-WABC, March 9, 2004) � An initiation ritual at a Masonic temple in Patchogue ended in one man's death.
abclocal.go.com... -

newsline
... who was told of the shooting by reporters Tuesday morning outside the brick building in downtown Patchogue, also denied that guns were used in Masonic rituals. ..
www.prisonplanet.com... -

A Ritual Gone Fatally Wrong Puts Light on Masonic Secrecy
... The New York Times. Albert Eid after being arrested and pleading not guilty yesterday in the shooting of another member of his Masonic lodge in Patchogue, NY. ..
www.nytimes.com... -

Masonic Ritual turns Deadly
Deadly Masonic Ritual "Patchogue police say one man was killed when a member fired a loaded gun and hit the victim in the face.
www.atsnn.com... -

WFSB Man killed during Masonic initiation ceremony
... at the Southside Masonic Lodge when another ... Masonic lodge who spoke to reporters Tuesday morning outside the one-story brick building in downtown Patchogue ...
www.wfsb.com... -

New York Mason failed initiation - shot dead
... [ www.washtimes.com... ] PATCHOGUE, NY (AP) � A man was killed during a Masonic initiation ceremony when another ..
www.illuminati-news.com... -

My Way News
... AP) Albert Eid, 76, of Patchogue, N.Y., appears in this booking photo released by the ... PATCHOGUE, N.Y. ( AP) - A man was killed during a Masonic initiation ceremony when ...
apnews.myway.com... -

Man Fatally Shot at L.I. Masonic Temple (phillyBurbs.com)
... PATCHOGUE, N.Y. - A man was fatally shot at a Masonic temple during what police said was an ... Monday night at the Southside Masonic Lodge when another member pulled out ...
www.phillyburbs.com... -

SignOnSanDiego.com > News > Nation -- State Masonic leader suspends
The shooting occurred one week ago at the South Side Masonic Lodge in Patchogue
www.signonsandiego.com... -

UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9 Number 11
... to frighten William James, a way to build trust between the father of five and his fellow members of the Southside Masonic Temple" of Patchogue, NY (population ..
www.ufoinfo.com... -

IHT: Shooting highlights Masonic secrecy
Weekly Article IndexMTuWThFWkndClear Clippings I've readClear all Clippings. Shooting highlights Masonic secrecy. March 10, 2004 ... PATCHOGUE, New York The initiation rituals at the Masonic lodge in...
www.iht.com... -

Guns & Guillotines - Ritual Murder Arrest Jarr's Masons
Initiates to the Fellowcraft Club of the Southside Masonic Temple in Patchogue also walked blindfolded along a narrow plank, said Suffolk cops investigating the shooting death of William James, 47... traps played a regular role in a secret Masonic ritual t
freemasonrywatch.org... -

A Page about Freemasonry: Letters!
... March 2004: Background info about Masonic social clubs, like the "Fellow Craft Club" in Patchogue, scene of the recent tragic shooting. ..
web.mit.edu... -

AP Wire | 03/15/2004 | State Masonic Leader Suspends L.I. Lodge
The shooting occurred one week ago at the South Side Masonic Lodge in Patchogue
www.macon.com... -

Man killed during Southside Masonic Lodge secret initiation ceremony
Man killed during Southside Masonic Lodge secret initiation ceremony. Play the video ( 03/09/04) PATCHOGUE - Police say a man is dead after he was shot during an initiation ceremony at a Patchogue social club.
www.news12.com... -

Freemason murdered another accidently shot to death. Both reports ...
... PATCHOGUE, NY - They still greet each other with secret handshakes and ... about," insisted Richard Fletcher, executive secretary of the Masonic Information Center ..
www.grandlodgescotland.com... -

He Received The .38th Degree :: Disinformation :: The gateway to the
...in the United States like the one that took place in a Monday night ceremony in a Masonic lodge in Patchogue, according to two historians.
www.disinfo.com... -

Boston.com / News / Nation / State Masonic leader suspends L.I. lodge...
State Masonic leader suspends L.I. lodge. By Frank Eltman, Associated Press Writer, 3/15/2004. FARMINGDALE, N.Y. -- ... shooting occurred one week ago at the South Side Masonic Lodge in Patchogue. During a meeting of a social club made ...
www.boston.com... -

State Masonic Leader Suspends L.I. Lodge
... Posted on Mon, Mar. 15, 2004. State Masonic Leader Suspends L.I ... one week ago at the South Side Masonic Lodge in Patchogue. During a meeting of a social club ...
www.dfw.com.../printstory.jsp -

Masonic Trust Ritual Results in Death
PATCHOGUE, New York The initiation rituals at the Masonic lodge in this Long Island town had been bathed in secrecy over the years. ..
www.libertytothecaptives.net... -

New York Shooting Incident
The tragedy in the Patchogue, NY Masonic hall discussed in detail.
www.masonicinfo.com... -

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Truth- many masons are O.K. guys. The ones that are 'superior' would be superior anyway except in an extremely rare case. Visit your lodge- get off the Internet. Ask the first three masons you come to what do they think about:

a mason letting a known butcher (mass murderer) go free if the murderer was a mason?
a mason lying in court to protect a brother mason accused of child molestation?
a mason subverting his fellows for personal gain?
a mason helping terrorists if the terrorists are also masons and their cause needs help?

I will provide case in point on each of these within a few days- when's lodge? Tuesday night?

Fine- Wednesday give me a post and I'll GIVE you a little masonic education!

Funny that you only give so many links to one incident...? Where is the rest of the answers that you promised??

Or is this your mass murder, child molestation, and personal gain?

BTW I beleave this one case was involinary man slaughter.

[edit on 8-9-2004 by amike555]

Gadfly,

You're confining yourself, it seems, to one or two incidents, and using that to make assumptions about what is TYPICAL in Masonry.

None of that is TYPICAL in Masonry.

Consider air travel:
Plane crashes happen rarely. You can cite quite a few cases, however. BUT . . . in light of the fact that hundreds of planes fly thousands upon thousands of hours, in regular service every day, plane crashes are extremely rare and DO NOT REPRESENT THE NORM.

Apply that to Masonry. Hundreds of lodges across America. Thousands of members. And the best you can do is cite a a case or two. I submit that your evidence is inadequate, especially in light of the serious charges you tend to level against Masonry.

The question is: Do those cases you cite represent the norm (what is typical), or the very rare exception ????

You can extrapolate absolutely nothing about Masonry by citing a couple of cases, when in fact Masonry is the largest fraternal organization in the world, spanning over two continents, with hundreds of thousands of members.

Please cite the thousands upon thousands of cases where there is NO killing, murder, shooting, etc. going on at lodges. You would probably be compiling a list the length of 2 city blocks.

Originally posted by amike555

Funny that you only give so many links to one incident...? Where is the rest of the answers that you promised??

Or is this your mass murder, child molestation, and personal gain?

BTW I beleave this one case was involinary man slaughter.

Sure- patience

Old mason takes gun to lodge-
shoots young mason

why gun?

Rites?

Why was lodge closed? What happened to the masons that testified against the old mason? BUT-why a gun at a lodge???

Patience amike555

as old Doug McArthur" once said- I shall return

*edit-
I don't want to draw any conlusions, as yet
the pro-masons get so twisted at my conslusions anyway so i just thought a little proof was due first

[edit on 8/9/2004 by PublicGadfly]

With all due respect you have yet to offer any proof, Gadfly.

"man takes gun to wife's house, shoots wife."

"man is driving on road, and in a fit of rage nails the car in front of him."

"man enters a conveneince store, shoots clerk."

Murders, deaths, shootings happen daily.

A shooting (the one you cite was accidental - he was charged with manslaughter) at a lodge is again, no proof that masonic rites involve dangerous, deadly, murderous practices. It is nothing ore out of the ordinary than any other incident of that nature. The fact that it just happened to involve Masons or the private environment of a Lodge is neither indicative of their rites, or the norm for Masonic rituals and behaviour.

Cite for me at least say, oh, 100 SEPARATE CASES in order to establish some kind of PATTERN.

That's what you want, Gadfly, you need a PATTERN of incidents to support your case. In a crminal investigation, a modus operandi is established over a series of crimes, not just one or even two. Of course, there are also many more Masons then there are victims of say, a particular violent criminal. Thus, you also want the cases you cite to be PROPORTIONAL to the Masonic population. And in light of the hundreds of thousands of members, spanning over two continents, you will need ALOT of cases in order to establish a proportional pattern. You want a figure that can be used to represent the norm and that can be used for extrapolation. Even that 100-case goal I gave you is disproportionate.

Note, for example, that even 300 cases represent only 6% of 5000 Masons. 6%.

So, you need to estabish a pattern that reflects proportionately the Mason population in order to draw any conclusions about their normative behaviour. Otherwise, your hypothesis (or what charges you allude to), won't work.



[edit on 8-9-2004 by LTD602]

LTD602

I surmise, that if one were to question the 'mystic' of masonry and viewed its purported teachings to the degree and and thoroughness that you have evinced in your posts then one would not consider any mason in a positive light. The doors would have stayed closed to the benefit of one's soul.

I have not offered proof- I have given proof.

You have chosen, at least by your own post, to not look inside those URLs, that is understandable. Perhaps you have traveled a few and are now ashamed to admit as such, that also is understandable. Not many a man nor woman could nor would admit to such error as you would then be privy.

The unknown is a foreboding place without the promise of gain, is it not?
�what gains a man to acquire the whole earth should he lose his soul?�

Inside at least one of those threads are the answers to your questions.

I will be providing more 'sign-posts' for the other items of interest with which I opened this thread-

Follow or not, your choice. I care not. There will be ample, possibly far more than ample examples of historical facts to back up my suppositions and additional suppositions as I may add, from time to time.

I have a few extras I will throw in from time to time just for 'grins'- (mason humor and Bro. Pike] stuff)- no wonder that many masons cringe when his name comes percolating up. He must remind some of the scupper-trout that just wouldn't flow.

We'll see, we'll see

*if no one posts after me I just feel like I will have a moral obligation not to proceed- it would look garish and all- I have been wrong

If I didn't post this previously, let me remind each and all-

It's SHOWTIME

(I wonder who will be the lucky one to 'tag' their name to the next missive?)

*PS I still have not knowingly encountered any pro-mason herein that I would choose to defend me in masonry if that were so needed.

Are you going to go through a pro-Masonic website, in order to slander Freemasonry based on, what, 9 other "bad" Freemasons?

Come on PG get over it, this does not even remotely count as a correlation, as this mearly accounts for 0.00025% of living Freemasons. Granted we are not including deceased Freemasons, even though some of the people that were "bad" are definitely not still alive. I wonder how many Freemasons have lived on this great earth, including the four million that are still alive. What would this make it? 0.0000025%

BTW here is the link for you all: www.masonicinfo.com...


PS There is a greater correlation between being American and commiting a violent crime, or being "bad," than there is between being a Freemason and commiting a violent crime. US population 293028000, total violent crimes commited 1,686,600. That is around 0.5% of the population. (Sorry to any Americans this is not at all an anti-American statment, it is just a statistic/fact.)

Definition of a serious violent crime:
The serious violent crimes included are rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and homicide.

Violent crime data retrieved from
www.ojp.usdoj.gov...
and demiographic data retrieved from
www.census.gov...

Edited-

PSS Public Gad Fly (I just found out the meaning of Gad: To move about restlessly and with little purpose. This is all to fitting of a name.)

Here is some suggestions for surmise (using more than one word will make you appear more intelligent, and redundincy is just annoying)

assume, conjecture, consider, deduce, fancy, guess, guesstimate, hypothesize, imagine, infer, opine, presume, pretend, regard, risk assuming, speculate, spitball, suppose, suspect, theorize, think

Source: Roget's New Millennium� Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.5)
Copyright � 2004 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.


[edit on 9-9-2004 by amike555]

Originally posted by amike555

BTW here is the link for you all: www.masonicinfo.com...

Good website- been there often. Lots os psycho-babble. One of the best masonic websites for revisionism of history I have found. The Canadain sites are a tad classier looking though

I really like lots of masonry info . Biased of course, but comprehensive.

Try it-

That site is were I first contacted my Freemason friends from. Great site, and yes very classy, but most importantly lots of facts.

Originally posted by amike555
That site is were I first contacted my Freemason friends from. Great site, and yes very classy, but most importantly lots of facts.

Have to agree.

I almost always access this site to see what the 'official line' is. Too bad I have to go "off-shore" about American masonry!

Gotta be more than just a few differences /shrug\