Good against Evil who is Winning ?

Do we have enough "good" in the world to save it?

The revelation reassures us that good will triumph over evil, and people that follow his word will be victorious.



[Edited on 15-2-2004 by kinglizard]

[Edited on 15-2-2004 by kinglizard]

[Edited on 15-2-2004 by kinglizard]

Evil is winning now and has been for some time. It is as was written and proposed and agreed to. But good will triumph as strives to save its defenders and allies in the great battles to come. What side are you on?

Originally posted by THENEO
Evil is winning now and has been for some time. It is as was written and proposed and agreed to. But good will triumph as strives to save its defenders and allies in the great battles to come. What side are you on?

I don't think evil can ever win. God only allows evil to exist because he gave us free will. By doing this he lets us choose our own destiny, but only to a point. If the scale leans too far towards evil I believe he will start revelations.

Not really no we don't

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by THENEO
Evil is winning now and has been for some time. It is as was written and proposed and agreed to. But good will triumph as strives to save its defenders and allies in the great battles to come. What side are you on?

I don't think evil can ever win. God only allows evil to exist because he gave us free will. By doing this he lets us choose our own destiny, but only to a point. If the scale leans too far towards evil I believe he will start revelations.

This phase of the Revelations started about 100 years ago with World War 1: "And I saw hail and fire mixed with blood and it was cast down on the Earth. A third of the Earth went up in flames, and third of the trees burnt down and all the green grass." A quite accurat spiritual description of WWI if you ask me, with the first bomber planes and the extensive use of "burnt earth tactic". 1/3rd would be a good estimate of how great this war infact was.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Neither will win how can you have one without the other?

Based on Googlefight, good shall prevail!

The alledged fight between good and evil is but a Hollywood clich�. Both good and evil comes from God. The fight is a spiritual one between humans acting out their folly and truths. It's a quest for Truth nothing more nothing less really. Pure evil doesn't exist. Only winners and losers in the quest for knowledge and Truth, the path we chose. The word translated "evil" in Genesis 3, is infact Ra. They got to know Tobe (translated good) and Ra (translated evil). Go figure.......

Take a name like Tobiyah which meant "YAHWEH is good". And how Jesjuah says that only YHWH is Good etc. and understand that Adam and Eve did perhaps not learn the difference between good and evil, but rather the difference between the Light (which was the first thing God called Good) and the Sun (which is a physical entity emmitting light). Maybe they learned the difference between the Light and the light-bringer?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 15-2-2004 by Hamilton]

I think that there are evil things that happen in the world but I like to think that on the whole people as individuals are basically good. Although I think that they can be misguided at times. I do think that people that do evil things do them because of the circumstances in their lives, because evil things have been done to them, or they have damaged minds. I think that it would be a truly scary thing to meet someone who is genuinely evil because they have chosen to be that way. I know that we can�t excuse things that some people do, but I think that sometimes we can try to understand them.

There is more. When God creates the two lights on the Heavens, he says that the greater should rule over what is translated as the day, and the lesser to rule over the night. But as always with Hebrew, these words have a variety of meanings. "The greater to rule over the day" can be translated into "the greater to rule over the year". And the word for night in the next part of the sentance, is nearly exactly the same word as a word meaning "winding stairs": DNA? Both words come from the same root, which means to fold. DNA is like a winding staircase which is folded again and again inside our cells. We know that women's menstruation cyclus is ruled by the Moon somehow. A coincidence? I certainly don't think so........

Blessings,
Mikromarius

I don't see how evil is controlled by god? It is a definite oppositional force. It is clear in the phrase, from the darkness came light. Even if one intelligence created both it seems that there is a great deal of separation at least in long term destiny.

They both coexist and both exist for reason I agree. Also I know that darkness cannot prevail over light for if it does the universe is consumed by chaos thus ending the universal cycle, this particular cycle. This will happen btw eventually. Satan does not want this though because he is the ultimate worshipper of physicality and thus he fights to be a deterrent and to be a thorn in the side of the light but he never wants to win.

Satan's forces though will overpower him in the end with their need to 'win.' Thus bringing to end this universal cycle. Satan cannot fully control that which he/she has rendered asunder and knows this full well.

Originally posted by THENEO
I don't see how evil is controlled by god? It is a definite oppositional force. It is clear in the phrase, from the darkness came light. Even if one intelligence created both it seems that there is a great deal of separation at least in long term destiny.

Nowhere does it say "from darkness came light". It says "Light came to darkness". Have you been reading the "Book of Satan" again? And many places in the Bible, either directly or indirectly it says that, Both good and evil comes from God.

They both coexist and both exist for reason I agree. Also I know that darkness cannot prevail over light for if it does the universe is consumed by chaos thus ending the universal cycle, this particular cycle. This will happen btw eventually. Satan does not want this though because he is the ultimate worshipper of physicality and thus he fights to be a deterrent and to be a thorn in the side of the light but he never wants to win.

Satan worships nothing. He wants everyone to worship him.

Satan's forces though will overpower him in the end with their need to 'win.' Thus bringing to end this universal cycle. Satan cannot fully control that which he/she has rendered asunder and knows this full well.

I don't know where you have read this, but it certainly isn't the Bible. The Bible depicts the final battle as some kind of "Changing of the Guards" or "Judgement uppon the Watchers" if you like to use Enochian terms. Satan is egoism or undeserved power. It's a vain war, but a joyful day when he is made obsolete, revealed and judged for his terrible iniquities against children and the unfortunate and the stupid. But at the same time, this event will unleach great and terrible persecution and distress on Earth. But only for a short while, before he has filled his measures, which he will do quite fast.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by Hamilton

Originally posted by THENEO
I don't see how evil is controlled by god? It is a definite oppositional force. It is clear in the phrase, from the darkness came light. Even if one intelligence created both it seems that there is a great deal of separation at least in long term destiny.

Nowhere does it say "from darkness came light". It says "Light came to darkness". Have you been reading the "Book of Satan" again? And many places in the Bible, either directly or indirectly it says that, Both good and evil comes from God.

--yes in the old testament it distinctly says first there was darkness then there was light, Jesus frequently mentions light coming from the darkness or a light in the darkness. Regarding God, my understanding is different, God is the light that desired more than physical existance but desired spiritual existance

They both coexist and both exist for reason I agree. Also I know that darkness cannot prevail over light for if it does the universe is consumed by chaos thus ending the universal cycle, this particular cycle. This will happen btw eventually. Satan does not want this though because he is the ultimate worshipper of physicality and thus he fights to be a deterrent and to be a thorn in the side of the light but he never wants to win.

Satan worships nothing. He wants everyone to worship him.

--Satan worships physicality he/she is the physical period. But I do agree that there is a conflict whereas each side wishes souls to join them. But note that the universe as we know it is mostly physical, correct? Thus, if the spirits of light triumph then the physical universe does not need to exist either, does it?

Satan's forces though will overpower him in the end with their need to 'win.' Thus bringing to end this universal cycle. Satan cannot fully control that which he/she has rendered asunder and knows this full well.

I don't know where you have read this, but it certainly isn't the Bible. The Bible depicts the final battle as some kind of "Changing of the Guards" or "Judgement uppon the Watchers" if you like to use Enochian terms. Satan is egoism or undeserved power. It's a vain war, but a joyful day when he is made obsolete, revealed and judged for his terrible iniquities against children and the unfortunate and the stupid. But at the same time, this event will unleach great and terrible persecution and distress on Earth. But only for a short while, before he has filled his measures, which he will do quite fast.

--Quite correct it is not in the bible. The bible only describes the battle for each soul, it does not describe the true future of the universe. Otherwise I agree with your comments on satan. But we must remember always that the body is subbordinate to the soul, for those that have a soul that is. Thus, the iniquities towards the body may cement your intention either as good or evil but in the end the body is but an instrument in itself.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

blessings to you also.

Originally posted by kinglizard
Do we have enough "good" going on to save the world?

No way in hell have we got enough good in this world. If we did, we wouldn't have any wars,violence,fighting. That's the kind of good we need. Too much evil

Originally posted by THENEO
I don't see how evil is controlled by god? It is a definite oppositional force. It is clear in the phrase, from the darkness came light. Even if one intelligence created both it seems that there is a great deal of separation at least in long term destiny.

They both coexist and both exist for reason I agree. Also I know that darkness cannot prevail over light for if it does the universe is consumed by chaos thus ending the universal cycle, this particular cycle. This will happen btw eventually. Satan does not want this though because he is the ultimate worshipper of physicality and thus he fights to be a deterrent and to be a thorn in the side of the light but he never wants to win.

Satan's forces though will overpower him in the end with their need to 'win.' Thus bringing to end this universal cycle. Satan cannot fully control that which he/she has rendered asunder and knows this full well.

Jude 1:7
�In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.�

The vision John received opens with instructions for him to write to seven churches. He both commends them for their strengths and warns them about their flaws. Both in the church and our individual lives, we must constantly fight against the temptation to become loveless and immoral. The letters make it clear how God feels about these qualities. The revelation reassures us that good will triumph over evil, and people that follow his word will be victorious.

KingLizard,

what you have written is true for those that believe and act accordingly. What it means by good winning over evil is that the spirit of those so aligned will ascend and hopefully be preserved in the next universal re-incarnation. I am not clear on what happens to the souls of darkness that chose life over spirit.

Originally posted by THENEO
--yes in the old testament it distinctly says first there was darkness then there was light, Jesus frequently mentions light coming from the darkness or a light in the darkness. Regarding God, my understanding is different, God is the light that desired more than physical existance but desired spiritual existance

Name one place where it says "from darkness comes or came Light" or a verse where this development is discribed. As you will find out pretty soon: Not a single place. The Light comes from God. "Let there be Light" he says. And God is not darkness. God creates the Light. And it really existed before darkness if you can believe it, for without Light nothing exists.

--Satan worships physicality he/she is the physical period. But I do agree that there is a conflict whereas each side wishes souls to join them. But note that the universe as we know it is mostly physical, correct? Thus, if the spirits of light triumph then the physical universe does not need to exist either, does it?

Your thoughts on dualism is just that: Thoughts and philosophy. Vain thoughts perceived through human perception. Satan is, or rather was, one of the Princes. He was, and in some people and organisatans still is, the Prince of Light and the Sun. But he is not, and he never was. That assumption is a lie. He is a mere man, a fallen Prince. An incomplete entity claiming to be perfect and worthy of worship. If he wants to be the Sun, we could always rig up a rocket and make him at least part of it, but first we must send him to the Sun and make him into plasma, then his substance can go from Hydrogen to Helium.

--Quite correct it is not in the bible. The bible only describes the battle for each soul, it does not describe the true future of the universe. Otherwise I agree with your comments on satan. But we must remember always that the body is subbordinate to the soul, for those that have a soul that is. Thus, the iniquities towards the body may cement your intention either as good or evil but in the end the body is but an instrument in itself.

What is your definition of a soul? The bible which introduced the idea, simply discribes the soul as our bodies. When God breathed through the nostrils of Adam, Adam became a living soul. The breath of life is the Spirit or Lifeforce. This Spirit animates the soul. Our souls are part of a greater whole. This is why a Muslim for instance don't like to have his or her photograph taken. He sees it as some kind of "soul-snatching". You can't loose your soul, the soul can be transformed, but not destroyed. It can't be bought or sold, it belongs to God, we are merely borrowing these vessels to be temples for our spirits. In the New Testament, the Greek word Psyche is translated soul. This is not fully in agreement with the Old Testament Nephesh. A more correct word to use instead of soul in the New Testament, is spirit or life. Like: The Enemy can kill the flesh, but not the spirit. He can unanimate the soul, by "tripwiring" this "bio-engine" or break the "carborator", but he can't take away a single particle of that body and make it dissapear, and is not able to destroy Life itself, or the "thing" that animates the soul: the Psyche or the spirit. The Enemy can only make the spirit leave the flesh and make the body go back to the Earth it was once taken from. See?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Satan is the physical universe period and the intelligence which guides it and regulates it. It is in some opposition with the spiritual at least in the need to entrap souls in its net (the matrix). The perceived battle of satan vs god is to transfer souls of light into souls of darkness to build satans army for the final battle of darkness against light. The goal to wrest control over all. But why? It can only be to ensure survival of the living for eternity whereas this is not promised in this current universal cycle.

The soul is a higher level expression of intelligence or awareness that is not corporeal or physical. In its highest forms of expression it is in unity with the great intelligence of the universe. Both light and dark have their own soul path if so desired which lead to differing outcomes. Much of the titanic battles in the universe involve this battle for influence over souls of your opponent. I do not know the penultimate destination of all souls as the universe recycles? That is one of the few great questions.

Originally posted by THENEO
Satan is the physical universe period and the intelligence which guides it and regulates it.

THENEO,

How can you believe that � Satan is the physical universe period and the intelligence which guides it and regulates it.�
Satan cannot be the physical universe; if he was the war would be over before it began. God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1), for that reason he controls and has power over everything in it. Lucifer�s control over universe could only happen if he was God�s opposite or equal to God. Isn�t it interesting how he has deceived us into believing he is God's equal? Lucifer is simply a jealous and envious fallen angel. Lucifer was created with a freedom to choose just as we are. God gave angels and people the choice of good or evil. But, even though God permits the devil to do his work in this world, God is still in control. And Jesus has complete power over Satan--he defeated Satan when he died and rose again for the sins of mankind. One day Satan will be bound forever, never again to do his evil work.

The 5 things Satan wanted:

1. Lucifer wanted God's place: "I will ascend into heaven." He wanted to move God off His throne.
2. Lucifer wanted God's position: "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God." "Stars" = angels of God. Lucifer was never the Commander-in-Chief of the angelic army, but he was a Five-Star General. He was not happy just being in charge of the cherubim; he wanted sole authority over all the angels without submitting himself to the authority of the Creator. He wanted to eliminate God from the scene.
3. He wants to control all the universe--absolute control: "I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north."
4. He was no longer happy to be a reflector of his Creator, he wanted to be the originator: "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds." Of the 150 references to clouds in the Bible, over 100 of them are related to the presence and glory of God. Lucifer was saying he was going to take to himself a greater glory than the glory of God.
5. He wanted to be responsible to no one but himself. He wanted total independence: "I will be like the Most High."

God�s triumph over Satin is best explained in:

Revelation 20:1

1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

Revelation 20:7

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Very interresting, lizardking, but why do people always refer to Satan as Lucifer? Satan is the Old Serpent or the Dragon, like a spiral or a pyramid, the simplest one would be n=n+1, which equals 666 after 36 points or layers, the number of thrones or decans around the Dragon in the Babylonian Zodiak which was the heaven Ba'al created as a plot against God and all his rightious. How he still blasphemes in the tongue of Latin and all the beasts from Roman mythology, Latin, the dead, but revived language of the wounded beast, tempting every child on Earth to receive it's of it's systematic temptation and false promises through every starmap you can find in the western world.

Blessings,
Mikromarius