ISP's accelorate censorship on the web !!

It appears the use of 'Black Lists' are being implemented more and more.

SPAM SUCKS, but is a legitamate enterprise, that cannot be controlled by legislation.

YET, more and more mail servers and IP's are black listed, and then blocked by the ISP's from their paid customers.

Take eNom for example....

One of the largest registrars of domain names in the world.

www.enom.com...

over 2,500,000 TLD's registered, and twice that in hosted DNS's.

Almost a half a billion DNS queries and over a million emails forwarded, PER DAY!


Unfortunatly, due to ISP's determining that they are the best people to decide what is best for their paying customers, ISP's are fingering IP's at an alarming rate, and in doing so, are blocking the mail servers that the registrar uses to merely redirect emails from.

Keep in mind I am only using two different companies as example, but this is currently prevailent among almost all ISP's and Registrar's in the world.

Road Runner is one of them. They are beginning to block the mail coming thru enom's mail servers, only becouse of a website that has forwarded spam thru them. Enom has made considerable concessions and adjustments to their systems to accomidate Road Runner demands, and in the end, RR has done nothing to release the server blocks in place.

This is no different than shutting down a gun manufacturer, becouse some thug used one of their guns to kill somebody.

SPAM SUCKS, and becouse of it we are being 'protected' from the evils, and many times dont even know it.

I say SPAM BE FREE...let it happen, if it was an industry that could not make money from their customers ads, then it would cease to exist.

If you want spam to stop, quit clicking on the banners, and quit buying things from the spammer's clients.


Note: I am not a spammer nor involved in the industry, yet I use enom as a registrar for my domain names, and as a result am many times effected by this filtering of my emails, to someone else, becouse the ISP they use thinks it is spam.

This censorship must stop, and should not be tolerated by anyone, as it is a legal enterprise. The National do not call list is dealing with this issue right now in court, and will probubly be greatly modified to remain legal. In the end it will be up to the consumer to pay for this blind 'protection', and that is the correct way to do it.

You might reply,..well you should get a different registrar, or a new ISP...that isnt the point.

Censorship IS the point. They have no right to block something that they deem inappropriate for me.

And even then, anybody, anyone, please demonstrate to me that there are ISP's that dont block, or use black lists. I would be real suprised to see any followup on that statement.

I only blacklist domain on my isp never ip addresses for this reason. I also use spam assassin and razor works well to control spam.

spam is NOT LEGIT, NOT LEGAL. i never asked for these twits to send me mail about enlarging my cock breasts feet or otherwise, why should i have to put up with it? laws ARE IN PLACE that forbid sending unsolicited mail, especially of the pornographic type.

SPAM SUCKS, but is a legitamate enterprise, that cannot be controlled by legislation.

shut up.

Please understand me, and read up on the DNS system.

You have no choice or control or knowledge of a blacklist in your ISP.

No use can block spam this way.

A regular web 'browser' individual has just an account for access, and an email account with their registrar.

It is not at this level.


Now lets say you want to build a website....


we'll use ATS for example..

Of course they must use a server, to host the web pages and apps that the website will have on it.

But they need a domain name too.

So William or Simon buy a domain name (www.abovetopsecret.com) and point it to their webserver.

This way a user just types in www.abovetopsecret.com and they are redirected to the server that william maintains.

To do this you buy your domain name at a 'registrar' which is an accredited sales agent of the TLD and domain name associated with it.

Well william also wants the email to be directed to him and from him.

This is a value added feature of owning a domain name.

Anybody that emails ats , their email is first sent to the registrar, and then redirected to the customer, william.



William, and the website, will also send out email.

It does not require the use of the same registrar to be sent out, but ultimatly will be forwarded the same way by some registrar to get to it's destination.

This is how it always works.

If you are a spammer, you pump out a billion emails to all possible places. The emails will bounce off a registrar, to be sent to the recipient.

To get on a black list, basically all you have to to is have a complaint against you.

The mailserver gets fingered becouse of it being forwarded thru a registrar, or spoofed headers.

The ISP's subscribe to the blacklists becouse their costomers love not getting spam. They then filter out all email going to the customer from mail servers that are black listed.

Many times you find that legitamate email starts being blocked going to you, the user. How do you know?....when your buddy says "I emailed you, but you never replied."

He emailed you, but becouse a domain name he uses for email, similar to the ATS email here, was filtered out, and you never received it.

Originally posted by forsakenwayfarer
spam is NOT LEGIT, NOT LEGAL. i never asked for these twits to send me mail about enlarging my cock breasts feet or otherwise, why should i have to put up with it? laws ARE IN PLACE that forbid sending unsolicited mail, especially of the pornographic type.

shut up.

Of course there should be controls in place for spam that is considered pornographic or sell illegal materials or products, and this is why the system is going the route that it is. It seems the ISP's have ONLY this tool to 'protect' you from email you dont want.


Nice followup statement too!

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL
I only blacklist domain on my isp never ip addresses for this reason. I also use spam assassin and razor works well to control spam.

Understand that when you do this, you are only adding to the pre-existing blacklist.

The ISP is blocking certain IP's and mailservers,

when you add a email address to your personal account blacklist, that is the second level of blocking...you have no control of the first level, as this is solely controlled by the ISP.

Originally posted by smirkley

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL
I only blacklist domain on my isp never ip addresses for this reason. I also use spam assassin and razor works well to control spam.

Understand that when you do this, you are only adding to the pre-existing blacklist.

The ISP is blocking certain IP's and mailservers,

when you add a email address to your personal account blacklist, that is the second level of blocking...you have no control of the first level, as this is solely controlled by the ISP.

I run my own isp. Web servers, Dns, Email. I provide email for 20 different companies. I censor them and they love me for it

I run my own isp. Web servers, Dns, Email. I provide email for 20 different companies. I censor them and they love me for it

Then you have IP addresses right? Dedicated and static then too.

What if your main IP gets fingered and blacklisted, legitimate or not.

Or your mail server gets spoofed in a bunch of spam headers.


I love not getting spam too trust me on that, as I believe your clients do love you for it.

But if your/your clients have a domain name, I know you do not provide registrar services, and must use one that is ICAAN acredited.

And emails sent using those domains, will have to go thru the Registrar server first to get to you and your customers.

But the Registrar email servers are now starting to get blocked by the ISP's, the point of the original post in this topic.

I totally agree with you about ip blocking.

As a note ...this is also why a webspace hosting company will pinch your use of their mail server to a hundred or so outbound emails an hour.

To get unlimited outbound mail, it has to be domonstrated that you are legit, or the IT engineers will have to approve your mail generating scripts first.

DirtyDevil,...what if one of your clients started serving out thousands of unsolicited emails per hour via cgi apps, and some of them get reported as spam?

They would all go out with this label ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** I censor their out going email also!! I'm a net Nazi when it comes to email.

But hey on a serious note most isps are making people use there email servers for all out going mail. Most of them don't use my server for out going email. I provide 2 with a Linux Nat box for their dsl modem and they use that for outgoing but there is one that does use my email server for outgoing. So it could happen.

[Edited on 1-1-2004 by DiRtYDeViL]

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL
But hey on a serious note most isps are making people use there email servers for all out going mail. Most of them don't use my server for out going email. I provide 2 with a Linux Nat box for their dsl modem and they use that for outgoing but there is one that does use my email server for outgoing. So it could happen.

[Edited on 1-1-2004 by DiRtYDeViL]

True the ISP's wish you to use theirs, but from a website hosting perspective, you do not use an ISP to serve mail, normally.

Most outfits use a host provider or own their own server, that does not require an ISP at all.

It is good you control the outbound volume, which is where the responsability should lay.

It takes very little to get black listed, and takes month's and much effort to get un-listed, if you can.


I wonder what the ATS IT director has as input to this thread. I am sure he knows what I am eluding to.

[Edited on 1-1-2004 by smirkley]

Once your ip get's black listed your screwed. I had it happen to me last year. I let a friend put up a nt mail server up. He couldn't figure out how to get authentication working instead of asking me he just left it an open relay. Nt mail is # anyway I would have had him use qmail. Anyway that ip is still blacklisted.

devil

you have a website for your isp servis? or could u list details here "speed, cost" eta

i'd much rather see blacklists than whitelists. besides, # spam.

I was hitting over 70 spam per DAY, yesterday I signed up for my hosts anti spam package, this morning I have 5.

Who gives a # if about "freedom" just burn the bastards....