Americans - less welcome abroad due to the WOT?

How many of our US cousins have felt less-welcome abroad (particularly in Europe but elsewhere too) since the start of the WOT/ Iraq invasion?

Yanks I meet in London (usually lost!) tend to be quick to say they don't agree with Bush / the WOT and are almost defensive about it.

Will the WOT make you less likely to travel abroad, due to perceptions of the reception you'll get rather than safety concerns?

To be honest, yes.

Americans have been guilt tripped into feeling that what our country has done is wrong.

In our defense I would like to state the following:

1. The United States was attacked[without provocation] by islamic fundamentalists on 9/11.

The resulting attack killed thousands of Americans and cause millions or possibly billions in damage.

This was cheered by the islamic nations worldwide and even some in the european communities.

Palestinians danced in the street as americans were broadcast accross the world choking and dieing in manhattan.

2. The pentagon was also hit.

3. a plane, bound for the white house was re-taken by the crew, or was in the process of being re-taken when the terrorists decided it was better to kill everyone on board and crashed it into the ground.

These attacks were followed by anomalous anthrax mailings around the country.

For all intents and purposes, someone(later al-qaeda) declared war on the United States and acted accordingly.

As any nation would, the US hunted down those responsible and now occupy their country of origin. (afghanistan)

These actions are perfectly understandable. A war was started, which still isnt quite over.

As time went on, Intelligence reports accumulated on the desk of the president of intelligence that Saddam Hussein was in possesion of Chemical and Bio weapons and possibly nuclear weapons and the possibility existed that he had connections to terrorists.

Rather than sit by and allow a possibly worse incident than 9/11. The president authorized the removal of the threat of Saddam Hussein.(who had chances to come to peaceful resolution to the situation)

So the question, and the big stickler that has fueled much anger in the world is where are these weapons?

Well, to be honest, we dont know. We did find a shell containing Sarin nerve agent, but most of what had to be an extensive stockpile is now gone. Most theories suggest Saddam burried them, or simply gave them away to somebody else.

So let me ask anyone of these critics of the US this:

Hypothetical Situation:

France

Religous extremists declare war on your national interests, they fly planes into the eiffel tower and into your government buildings killing thousands of innocent people.

What do you do?

The only travelling I do out of the country is to Manila, and I've ALWAYS felt nervous there. The attitude in the Philippines is American=Rich. If you're in Manila it's easy to get into the wrong area, and pulled into a situation that's not really dangerous most of the time, but where you can be taken for a ride and lose a lot of money. Outside Manila I've ALWAYS felt very comfortable. There are actually a lot of Americans that marry and retire in the Philippines.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
To be honest, yes.

Americans have been guilt tripped into feeling that what our country has done is wrong.

In our defense I would like to state the following:

1. The United States was attacked[without provocation] by islamic fundamentalists on 9/11.

The resulting attack killed thousands of Americans and cause millions or possibly billions in damage.

This was cheered by the islamic nations worldwide and even some in the european communities.

Palestinians danced in the street as americans were broadcast accross the world choking and dieing in manhattan.

well then since you think like this you should know that those videos of muslims cheering were for your consumption only and it was OLD videos recycled to suit the current agenda of your government....you still dont know this after all these years?
LIES !

2. The pentagon was also hit.

yes it was, most probably with a rocket that had USA written all over it though.

3. a plane, bound for the white house was re-taken by the crew, or was in the process of being re-taken when the terrorists decided it was better to kill everyone on board and crashed it into the ground.

is that a fact now? I have heard several scenarios...

These attacks were followed by anomalous anthrax mailings around the country.

of course those pesky arabs sent anthrax mails on the camels all the way from Afganistan...

For all intents and purposes, someone(later al-qaeda) declared war on the United States and acted accordingly.

As any nation would, the US hunted down those responsible and now occupy their country of origin. (afghanistan)

These actions are perfectly understandable. A war was started, which still isnt quite over.

the only thing understandeable to me is you dont have a clue of whats going on

As time went on, Intelligence reports accumulated on the desk of the president of intelligence that Saddam Hussein was in possesion of Chemical and Bio weapons and possibly nuclear weapons and the possibility existed that he had connections to terrorists.

Rather than sit by and allow a possibly worse incident than 9/11. The president authorized the removal of the threat of Saddam Hussein.(who had chances to come to peaceful resolution to the situation)

of course he had chemical weapons, your government sold them to him, you mean you dont know this either?

So the question, and the big stickler that has fueled much anger in the world is where are these weapons?

Well, to be honest, we dont know. We did find a shell containing Sarin nerve agent, but most of what had to be an extensive stockpile is now gone. Most theories suggest Saddam burried them, or simply gave them away to somebody else.

no Russians help smuggle them to Syria remember. You should go to war with both of them, show everybody how though amerikanskis really are

So let me ask anyone of these critics of the US this:

Hypothetical Situation:

France

Religous extremists declare war on your national interests, they fly planes into the eiffel tower and into your government buildings killing thousands of innocent people.

What do you do?

i would check who stands to gain from it, and what was in that building.


Of course for an average yankee brain its easier to go and kill 30.000 civilians instead.
Hey come to think of it, its like how nazis killed my grandfathers brother in WW2. Since one german was killed by partisans, they just rounded 20 innocent people up and shot them in the middle of the street.

Yeah, making friends are we....

But this isnt even the issue, a lot of americans are so brainwashed they think they need to protect their corrupt government becouse thats what patriot americans do. All you have to do is detach youself from that mentality and get on with it. You are not your government and neither does
the government care particulary about you....or mine about me for that matter. We all got dragged into the same crap you know.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
...

What some people don't get yet is that we Europeans were and still are against the war in Iraq, which was started for a pointless reason and does only result in more violence.Various European countries warned the US, but they wouldn't listen (like it usually is the case).

That's what we're against and the US's lack of cooperation, Europe's opinion doesn't really matter. Several attempts were made to convice the US to close Guantanamo. Of course we feel terrorists should be locked up, but only when there's proof or strong evidence they really are terrorists, not just locking up innosent people. And why should you torture them? Do you call it civilized, do you want to be as those terrorist lunatics?

We Europeans generally aren't the only people against the war in Iraq, before it started a big percentage of the US inhabitants supported it and you know how the US majority feels nowadays about it.

I think the Jan-Kezen (yankees) shouldn't take it too personally, as they aren't responsible for what their government does.
Europeans neither forgot what you guys did for us during world war II, every year we still commorate the allied cassualties of this terrible war and celebrate the liberation of our countries.

I am student in a multi-national class with Chinese, American, Canadian, German, Spanish and several other nationalities and we really treat yankees them as we treat Dutch or Canadians. There's not something such as an anti-American ambience over here...

As mentioned before, the main issue is the US attitude and behaviour in the world as superpower, things like: We'll deal with this, no matter you like it or not and I don't care about your thoughts, we'll do know what we want. (Guantanamo, Iraq etc Global warming, Kyoto, Human rights).

Furthermore, many people feel the money could have been spend in such a better way, for instance for the US social securties, but that's not really our business.

Last, there's a continent called Africa, and in particular Sudan were thousands of people die every year caused by civil wars, THERE we need forces to return peace, not in Iraq, where an old granny called Hoessein spent his last years. We all know he wasn't able to do much more harm than he did before, we also know the enormous amounts of money Western companies made in Iraq.

I'm quite interested in how you Americans think about the whole situation.


Edit: and whoever human being says the Americans 'faked' the 2001 terrorist attacks is just mad and I wouldn't even waste time to discuss their ridiculous ideas.



[edit on 3-4-2006 by Mdv2]

I started a thread with an almost identical theme couple years ago, might be of interest:

Are you American? Do you travel? Do you feel safer?

[edit on 3-4-2006 by koji_K]

Basically, i disagree with the topic of this thread. I don't think Americans are less welcome overseas or even their counterparts--the Europeans and Israelis are. Any tourist is a good tourist as long as they are not a terrorists acting as a tourist. I don't believe any country would discriminate Americans and their counterparts just because they government invade Iraq and did lots of stupid things.

The everyday American tourists I see coming down to my country is not the one who initiate the Iraq War or did horrible stuffs as mentioned here in ATS and the news about how U.S brings death and destruction in Iraq. It just happens that they are from that country, too bad but whatever it is, they're tourists so we must treat them with warmth and hospitality.

All this discomfort with Americans in your native land is probably due to paranoia. If the terrorists don't get to plan an attack on the American soil, they'll probably do the next best thing--attack American tourists' interests. It is because of this the native people of that country that the Americans are visiting, are fearful of. It's like bringing the danger closer to your home you see.

Anyways, to me, one bad apple doesn't reflect on the rest of the apples.

One thing I have noticed is that Americans who come to my University in Australia start off being typical loud arrogant braggarts, but the longer they stay here they seem to change (for the better) when they realise just how much their government lies to them, uses them and abuses them, not to mention the fact that they seem to wake up to the idea that there are other countries in the world that matter, not just the US of A.

Whilst I wouldn't say that you aren't welcome here in Aus, you definately have lost a lot of respect in the international community, I have friends in and from Europe, as well as a lot of friends from different parts of Asia, and yes, I'm even friends with a Muslim or two....imagine that, anyway I'll get off my soapbox and say, from what I gather, everyone with any semblance of knowledge as to how the world really runs doesn't blame American people for what is happening, but nobody seems to like what your leaders are doing to OUR planet, turning it into a big blood for oil cash machine.

Don't get me wrong, American people have lots of faults, loudmouthing and arrogance would have to be the main two, but the same can generally be said about Australians as well. I suppose its much like anything, you get nice people all over the place, but you also get a lot of wankers, no matter where you are, although I'm yet to meet a banker that I like, but they don't really count as human anyway.

Maybe if all Americans could spend a year in a different country, more of them would wake up and embrace other cultures instead of just bombing them, plus they would be less alienated.

I live in hope...........

Well a friend of my know a guy who moved from Cleveland in my country 2 years ago. When he asked him why did he move from US he answered that he had to get out of that depressed Bush-land.

That kind of Americans are welcome in my house any time.

ok nukunuku im not buying or selling conspiracy theories, Im trying to go on as much factual information as possible so

No I dont buy the US orchestrated 9/11, or bombed the pentagon.

It is possible that sleeper cells in the US sent that anthrax.

more to come if you want it......

im not saying arabs had nothing to do with it just so we understand each other, but i still wonder who is actually pulling the strings dont you?

the videos of muslims celebrating are known to be older than 911 date though, so you can write that one into your fact book.


I always wonder why many of the people that come here actually come here. What is the point of reading ATS if you belive the official news anyway.
There must be a deeper reason that brought us all here....dont you think so?

peace

To tell you the truth I could care less how someone in Paris, London or Rome feels about me, what we do with our county is really none of their concern. If they don’t want me to visit their country then fine I’m ok with it, this doesn’t mean I wont go it just means I wont have an anxiety attack over it.

[edit on 3-4-2006 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23

.......................................................................

[edit on 3-4-2006 by WestPoint23]

Fortunately aren't all Americans like you

Why travel abroad when America is so rich with interesting and beautiful places to visit?

I'd rather spend my time and money here.

my wife is currently planning our post tax season vacation and Italy and France were brought up. I ruled out France immediately. I won't spend a nickle of my hard earned money on a nation that is pretty tolerant of anti-semitism and anti-americanism. I don't necessarily agree with all of my country's policies but I do believe that my vacation should not include the risk of conversation with people blaming me for the actions of my government. I'm going away to relax and not debate.

Italy was ruled out mianly because the mother outlaw doesn't feel comfortable having us so far away when she is "watching" the kids.

Originally posted by nukunuku

the videos of muslims celebrating are known to be older than 911 date though, so you can write that one into your fact book.

That rumor has been debunked before.
You need t update your factbook.
www.snopes.com...


Back on topic:
I don't think US persons will have a lot of trouble overseas.
Even during the whole boycott France ordeal some reporters from Fox News travelled to France and said they were treated well and this was in 2004 when the anti-war sentiment in Europe was at a fever pitch.

Originally posted by Crakeur
I ruled out France immediately. I won't spend a nickle of my hard earned money on a nation that is pretty tolerant of anti-semitism and anti-americanism.

I am not French, but who told you this nonsense?

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
To be honest, yes.

Americans have been guilt tripped into feeling that what our country has done is wrong.

I have no guilt trip..sorry. We were lied to

In our defense I would like to state the following:

I think you mean in YOUR defense. You do not represent All Americans. I need no defending for what I know is wrong and have no control over.

1. The United States was attacked[without provocation] by islamic fundamentalists on 9/11.

Who we still haven't caught yet

The resulting attack killed thousands of Americans and cause millions or possibly billions in damage.

Yes and now we have spent trillions to make up for the billions and instead of just 3000 lives its now over 30,000 lives. Does that make sense?

This was cheered by the islamic nations worldwide and even some in the european communities.

Palestinians danced in the street as americans were broadcast accross the world choking and dieing in manhattan.

As was stated. All propaganda. I live in NYC surrounded by arabs and saw no such thing. As a matter of fact a lot of them were extremely sad and even crying. Wether you know or care to know, a lot of them were hurt economically by all this and can't even feed their families back home as a result of this. This is not something they wanted nor asked for.

These attacks were followed by anomalous anthrax mailings around the country.

They still never caught who was doing that. It was an American who was suspected of this at first. A Doctor if you can recall.

For all intents and purposes, someone(later al-qaeda) declared war on the United States and acted accordingly.

As any nation would, the US hunted down those responsible and now occupy their country of origin. (afghanistan)

Ok so what did Iraq have to do with that? Why then , are Al Queda members crossing the border into Iraq to fight if they were already there?

These actions are perfectly understandable. A war was started, which still isnt quite over.

Yep and still no Bin Laden

As time went on, Intelligence reports accumulated on the desk of the president of intelligence that Saddam Hussein was in possesion of Chemical and Bio weapons and possibly nuclear weapons and the possibility existed that he had connections to terrorists.

Guess you havent been following the news lately. Recordings and documents were recently captured that show Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with them nor did he have any WMD

Rather than sit by and allow a possibly worse incident than 9/11. The president authorized the removal of the threat of Saddam Hussein.(who had chances to come to peaceful resolution to the situation)

Don't forget to mention he also gave away some of the largest No-Bid contracts ever complete with waivers of non-disclosure (Which means we have no right to audit them), as well as kidnapping, bribery, wiretapping of americans, torture, renditions,chemical warfare,stolen explosives and lets not forget about the couple hundred million of $ cash that went missing and can't be found in Iraq that was supposed to be used for rebuilding

Well, to be honest, we dont know. We did find a shell containing Sarin nerve agent, but most of what had to be an extensive stockpile is now gone. Most theories suggest Saddam burried them, or simply gave them away to somebody else.

Is that the best you could come up with? Thats pitiful. What about Osama?

I can see you are.

Back on topic, as a Canadian, I have no problem with the American public, and would welcome any American tourist to my Country with a warm "G'day eh", as I would to any visitor from any country. It's not the people anyone has a problem with, it's the policies of the government. How anyone voted Bush back in is beyond me, but that doesn't make me think less of anyone who voted for him. It's a free country (supposed to be anyway).

So to all the American's out there, I say welcome to Canada. Come visit, you are welcome.

Depends on where you going...if you going to Pakistan, chances are that you will be kidnapped and have your head cutoff, in Saudi Arabia possibly ambushed, shot and burned, in Afghanistan get hit by a suicide bomber while traveling to some nice scenery, in the Philippines get hit by an IED placed in a bicycle, in Jordan get hit by a suicide bomber while attending a wedding. So it depends on where you visiting.