US Black programs 2004.

Ok here goes:

www.globalsecurity.org...

23.2 Billion $

In the case of the new defense budget, it is anybody's guess where most of the classified money is going, Pike said. But he said it is a good bet that some of it is going to programs that the administration is known to strongly favor, such as missile defense and the development of hypersonic planes that can fly beyond Earth's atmosphere.

"This is an administration that likes to play I've got a secret," he said. "The growth of the classified budget appears to be part of a larger pattern of this administration being secretive."

If really this money is spend on these "black projects", makes me wonder what the hell is done / maintained by this money.. cause last 2 "black projects" that i have heard of are B-2 / F-117.. So where does this money go? To Aurora and Flying nuclear saucers? Maybe, maybe not..

But really maybe they are using (most? of) this money to build and test those "mini-nukes" that are used for bunker busting. If so, it isnt a good thing.. world is about to enter the age of nuclear war..

That is ALOT of money being used for things that we won'r find out about for a long time. I don't like the idea. It's like lending my buddy a car, that i have no idea when he'll return it, if he has a license, or if he'll return it with gas in it. It's a very iffy situation.

Fulcrum/Uni...

Don't get your panties in a bunch ok?
'Black Projects' are umm, super secret and on a need to know basis...ya...that'll work.

Seriously though....
I tend to think that 'Black Projects' are super secret R&D projects, etc. The government has been spending billions on them for many, many decades. Its also been on the rise for as long. I would prefer to call this "keeping an edge."
Why the "golly gee, thats alot of money?" Almost every major nation has a program such as this.....
As to it applying to Bush showing his 'secretive' side...hmm, I really doubt it based on the past of this program....these projects have always maintained very high secrecy levels and should not really reflect on the administration, but on the military establishments, the private contractors, and those who voted to approve such funds...Congress, Senate, etc.

Peace.

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 30-8-2003 by Seekerof]

US "black budget" gets more money than most other nations (all?) use for defence. That is scary..

But lets keep in mind:

www.aeronautics.ru...

US "black projects" include these..
Buying of "enemy" hardware and testing those.. US bought more than 30 MIG-29 from Moldova, not so long time ago, and they have also bought advanced Russian AD systems from Ukraine.. They really shouldnt sell these things to US, as when US gets hold of these the countermeasures are made effective.. and these weapons come useless / less effective..

Hows that scary Uni....I would say its proportionate to the GNP of a nation.

regards
seekerof

Yeah, well.. what i ment when i said it was scary: was that if US keep spending so much money on high-tech weapons projects that us military will infact became invulnerable.. having tanks that cant be destroyed and aircraft that cant be shot down..

At this moment this is not so your tanks and planes arent any better than other high-tech equipment build around the world even if you think they are, but with spending like this they might someday be way too superior..

Here is one "Black project":

www.airwar.ru...

www.biic.de...

www.scaled.com...

The Agile Response Effective Support (ARES) aircraft was designed by Burt Rutan and built by his Scaled Composites company over period 1985-1990. First flying on 19 Feb 1990, it closely matches US Army proposal for Low Cost Battlefield Attack Aircraft (LCBAA) drawn up in 1981, and is claimed to be of intrest to developing countries as well as more advanced nations.

This has internal armament of one 25mm (1 inch) five-berreled GAU-12/U and provosion is made for the carriage of 2 AIM-9 or 4 AIM-92. (1 hardpoint in each wing?)

ARES completed live cannon firing tests in 1991, with USAF funding, and has since continued in flight test. A two-seat trainer variant is also planned.

Now, this should be news to you others, or is it?

If you are interested about this you should go to:

Scaled Composites Incorporated
Hangar 78, Mojave Airport, Mojave
California 93501, USA



Funny things these books..

...
And
...

Funny is also the fact that "Scaled Composites" is located in Mojave..

[Edited on 30-8-2003 by FULCRUM]

uhhh...try this....
"Possible space weapons of the future"
www.post-gazette.com...

regards
seekerof

There is also the ABL, i think that it also goes into "black projects" list, even though it isnt that black anymore..

And about this "rod" thing.. USAF used CBU filled with different types of (size, quality..) rods at least against one target during "Iraqi Freedom", i read about it from "the AirForces monthly"...

PAW bomb.
CBU-107 PAW (Passive Attack Weapon).
Used at least on one strike mission.
"Using kinetic force of 3,750 rods"
"claimed accuracy of 30m"
"The weapon has disabling effect on targets such as fuel depots and power stations"
"There are 2 major components to the CBU-107: TMD and WCMD"
"TMD houses 350 355mm tungsten rods, 1000 178mm tungsten rods and 2400 50mm steel rods."
"USAF has declined to comment on the specific target struck with the CBU-107 during Operation Iraqi Freedom."

[Edited on 31-8-2003 by FULCRUM]

Got any more info on that CBU107 Fulcrum?

Originally posted by DeltaNine
Got any more info on that CBU107 Fulcrum?

Here:

"TMD = TACTICAL MUNITION DISPENSER"
"WCMD = WIND CORRECTED MUNITIONS DISPENSER"

And:

"During the weapons descent, the 14in (355mm) rods are ejected from the dispenser first, followed by the 7in (178mm) ones - all of the long rods are designed to damage the harder aspects of the target. The 2in (50mm) rods, dispensed last, are designed to damage the softer aspects of the target. The weapon was initially conceived to neutralise target where chemical or biological weapons were stored."

That is all.

I actually think this is great idea, if it werent for Bush in power.

Making our military invincible is a good goal. The problem is that its only good if we plan to become a neutral isolationist state. Thus, anyone wishing to goad us or take advatage of us would get a nasty surprise.

But we got Bush in power. Hes trying to make his invincible army.....for global domination?

Cheers Fulcrum. Thats an interesting bomb they've got.

Originally posted by DeltaNine
Cheers Fulcrum. Thats an interesting bomb they've got.

Yes it is, and you are wellcome! They have btw also used practise bomb fitted with paveway guidance kits to destoy some Iraqi hardware hiden in residential areas.. (BOMBS FILLED with: dirt/water/concrete..) at least one SU-22 fighter bomber was destroyed by a "dummy bomb".. it was dummy mk82 or mk82 (227/454kg or 500/1000lb)

Not all black program money goes into weapons. The American goverment uses alot of this blcak money to acquire property. Where do you think the money came to build Area 51? This money can also be used to basicly bribe foreign powers if need be. I would also probbaly reason that some money is leant to defense corporations in the private sector to ensure they stay in business and dont sell out. With all that money being spent every year though we better have some damn cool stuff.

MISSILE DEFENSE AGENCY

The Alaska Aerospace Development Corp., Anchorage, Alaska, is being awarded a sole source contract to provide Ballistic Missile Defense System test, operation, launch support and related services at the Kodiak Launch Complex, Kodiak Island, Alaska. The contract base period of performance is from Sept. 1, 2003 through Aug. 31, 2004 with a not-to-exceed amount of $8,000,000. The estimated total value of the contract with potential task orders over a five-year period is $40,000,000. The Missile Defense Agency is the contracting activity (HQ0006-03-D-0043).

Originally posted by IndianaJoe
Not all black program money goes into weapons. The American goverment uses alot of this blcak money to acquire property. Where do you think the money came to build Area 51?.

Indian Joe's right! but there's even more to it than that. Here's a list of things the Black budget is used to fund:
1. Weapons programe
2. Intelligence Agencies and activities
3. Covert Special operations
4. Bribes of foreign Officals
5. counterintelligences activities

Tim

[Edited on 4-9-2003 by ghost]

You know what? You guys might have a problem with organization. That is...the organizing of where that wonderful surplusssss of money will go when you have it TO go.

Ghost,
Thats a nice omlette you've made, but lets separate some of the ingredients:

1. Weapons Programs: Certainly. Goes without saying. Some new weapon systems are being designed and tested. HOWEVER, the majority of funds being spent on black weapons projects are not on new systems, rather, it is for upgrades and enhancements of existing systems. It can be argued that the majority of our most important non-nuclear weapon systems have been used operationally in the last 10 years. This means that our adversaries have had ample opportunities ot collect intel on our stuff and possibly even exploit recovered systems that were either combat losses or duds. In order to maintain peak combat effectiveness, black weapons projects are looking into newer and better ways to employ, deliver and utilize these systems. There are a small number of "gee whiz" systems in development, but they are always considered "high risk" and usually take at least 10-15 years to deploy operationally, if successful at all. I would venture a guess and say that in the last 20 years, 20-50% of a black budget weapons money spend went to weapons that never made it beyond "proof of concept" phase.

2. Intelligence Agencies and Activities: Its no big secret that our Intel community likes to keep its budget a secret. And its not for the reasons you think. A major chunk of those budgets are re-distributed to civial contractors performing work for the Intel community. Now, this is also no big secret. But, if our enemies knew where every dollar was being spent and by who, they might be able to more effectively spy on us. Why waste time trying to spy on CIA headquarters or Ft. Meade when you can just go over to the local DoD contractor and get the same product? The reason the budget is classified is not so they can hide how much is being spent on what, but to hide who is spending the money and where it is being spent. And believe me, don't think for a minute that the government doesn't keep an eye on that money. There are thousands and thousands of DoD and Intell community auditors running around every day of the year counting all the beans.

3. Covert Special Operations: Believe it or not, this is not a very expensive line item. At least for the Intel community. As a rule, most of this money comes from the CIA's Operations Department, which is part of the overall CIA budget.

There are no other US organizations conducting covert operations overseas, unless you factor in the DoD, which has a readily-accessable budget. Some money is always budgeted for SpecOps overseas, and it is usually referred to in the budget with some innocuous project name, like "Project Doorknob" or something like that. Alot of it is related to counter-insurgency or counter-drug activities in countries friendly to the US where the US military is an invited "guest".

4. Bribes of Foreign Officials: While this practice may take place, I am willing to bet it is usually for low dollar amounts for low-level officials. Probably comes from the CIA Ops Dept. as well. Payoffs of cabinet level foreign officials probably requires a Presidential Order and funds would be allocated from outside established organizational budgets. Usually, we are bribing a low-level official to give us data regarding the higher-level guys, or bribing them to allow us access to sensitive offices or installations, where we can emply of superior eavesdropping technology. Don't believe that the CIA is paying off prime ministers and kings all over the world, however. Those days are gone, for the most part.

5. Counterintelligence Activites: Within the US, this is the balliwick of the FBI exclusively. Their budget is Unclassified. The NSA and CIA have their own CI departments, but those people are there mostly to keep their own houses clean. Department of Homeland Security budget is also Unclassified, I believe.

Black budget money is being spent of alot of cool things, but you (like most folks) are just guessing at what is really going on. Thats good. It means our security system is effective and working.

Thanks Pyros, your post made lots of sense..

Good post.

I actually have 1 Janes report on "US black budget" that i downloaded from Janes.. couple years back.. it is quite detailed..

Funny enough.. it was named "Btr-80 specs.."

And when afterwards i tryed to find it online.. it was gone.

Luckily i burned the offline page on cd, so i still have it.. just cant find the cd at the moment.