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Originally posted by COOL HAND
Harpoon is a pos that is as unrealistic as it can get.
If you want a truer experience than I suggest you try games like Fleet Command or Dangerous Waters. Both of them are much closer to what you would see in the real world.
The Navy used to issue copies of Fleet Command as a teaching tool, never saw them do that with any of the Harpoon series.
Originally posted by edsinger
These missiles are for Backfires and Cruise Missiles, not highly agile tactical aircraft like a Mig 21.
Originally posted by COOL HAND
I disagree, and I am in the Navy.
I have seen Fleet Command issued out as a training tool. The US Navy looks at Harpoon the same way as they did with the AEGIS game, it looks good, but it is of no use as a training tool.
Have you even tried to play Dangersous Waters yet? It is nothing like a flight sim at all.
Just out of curiousity, what do your friends in the Navy do?
Originally posted by edsinger
As for my friends, well I am a member of many on line Naval groups, I was a Nuc in the US Navy in the 80's and I follow Military technology very close. Another example of Fleet Commands short coming is they way it handles CWIS and SAM engagements, it hits the target way to much than would be expected with Shipwrecks or SunBurns.
As for Dangerous Waters? That is a heck of a game, goes right along with what I would suspect from the 688I, Sub Command group. It sure as hell was an improvement over Destroyer Command.
Originally posted by COOL HAND
Originally posted by edsinger
These missiles are for Backfires and Cruise Missiles, not highly agile tactical aircraft like a Mig 21.
It was tested against maneuvering targets and successfully intercepted them time after time.
The AIM-54C model with upgrades had no problems with terminal engagement manuevers.
This also begs the question, since when has the MIG-21 been considered a "highly agile aircraft?" Since when did it have a ECM abilty that would allow it to spoof a Phoenix?
Originally posted by COOL HAND
Your point is what? Everyone in the Navy knows that Nukes know one thing, Nuclear power. When it comes to the other stuff like weapons and tactics, you'd think you were speaking a foregin language to them.
You haven't answered my question yet as to whether or not you actually played it.
Originally posted by edsinger
The Phoenix uses up its propellant in the first minutes of flight to make speed and is left with nothing to maneuver with. It is part of the reason the the Navy is getting rid of the 14's (which I disagree with btw). Harpoon can show just why relying on the SuperBug for Fleet Defense is iffy at best.
[edit on 16-4-2005 by edsinger]
Originally posted by edsinger
Well as a NuC I would for the most part agree but not in my case. I do understand weapons systems to some degree, I am no expert but I hold my own in conversations with those that are.
To answer your question, yes. I jumped in a P3 and patrolled for a bit. It is not my idea of a way to spend hours, but don't get me wrong it was really good just like 688I was.
But these are 2 different games, the Dangerous Waters is a more 'local' engagement game whereas Harpoon and Fleet Command are Theater games.
If they would not have cancelled Harpoon 4 we would both be wrong.
Oh yeah, the ECM in Harpoon is much better than Fleet Command. By far as are the sonar models.
Originally posted by COOL HAND
No, it does not.
It has movable surfaces that allowed it to manuever at all speed ranges. It is capable of pulling more G's than any aircraft out there.
Originally posted by COOL HANDWhere you an officer, or enlisted. It is important for me to know that before I start making some assumptions on your part. Also, when did you serve?
Originally posted by COOL HANDWhere did you get your copy of the game at?
Originally posted by COOL HANDIt depends on how you set the game up. You can create your own scenarios and make them cover much more space than the pre set missions.
Originally posted by COOL HAND
We will probably never know.
Originally posted by COOL HAND
You base that statement on what?
Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
I own the new version of Harpoon Classic and am saving up money to get Harpoon 3.
Two of my all-time favorite games and some of the best ever. It really opened my eyes to just how dangerous the Soviet military was during the Cold War and our small chances of success.
Originally posted by edsinger
Agreed but no Propellant is left at range. More maneuverable than any aircraft? Oh hell yes, but at the end of a 70 mile flight against a maneuvering target, well lets just say the odds decrease dramatically.
Enlisted - Reagan Years
Originally posted by COOL HANDWhere did you get your copy of the game at?
Online why?
True but you can not have a FLEET on FLEET encounter. I think you misunderstand me here, In no way can Harpoon type game model a Seawolf for instance like a Sub Command can. They are two different animals. Have you ever played Harpoon 2002 or Harpoon 3?
We will probably never know.
Sadly you are probably right but maybe not......there are rumors!
On the base calculations , in Fleet Command when it first came out you couldn't even load a Phoenix on it? remember that one? Well the guys at NWS have done a wonderful job with it but it still lacks the 'feel' of realism. Weapons do not miss in Fleet Command and if you think a 14 loaded out with 4 Phoenix's and shot all 4 at Mig21's that all 4 would hit at 50 miles just will not happen in real life and yet it did to me 2 days ago. Hell with 14's in the air all I had to do was launch missles and land and repeat.
The US Navy looks at Harpoon the same way as they did with the AEGIS game, it looks good, but it is of no use as a training tool.
Originally posted by COOL HAND
That is why they gave it a proximity detonator.
Originally posted by COOL HAND
Enlisted - Reagan Years
Thanks, it was what I had thought.
The manual was your ususal PDF one but I have already got rid of the game as it was not what I expected. Nothing wrong with it by any means just not my style.Online why?Did you get the manual with it or not? Did you download it from them?
Originally posted by COOL HANDWhere did you get your copy of the game at?
Originally posted by COOL HAND
Yes, I have played them all. The thing I do not like about Harpoon is that it is not set up like the real thing. The button locations are all wrong, the commands are all wrong, the enviroment has no bearing on you. I could go on for hours about how little I like the game and what is wrong with it.
Originally posted by COOL HAND
As far as I am concerned, it is on life support.
We will probably never know.
Sadly you are probably right but maybe not......there are rumors!
Originally posted by COOL HANDWell, the fact that the reload times in Harpoon were so incredibly short, just made it seem far less real to me. There is no way you could have reload times like that in the real world.
Originally posted by COOL HAND
The ASW portion of Harpoon has always been crap. The displays are not even close to realistic. I like to see a waterfall display that is at least close to what I would expect when I do ASW work against a real sub in the real world.
Originally posted by edsinger
All A2A Missles have Proximity warheads. Whats your point? It still has to be damn close for a kill.
And why did you think that? Keep in mind that I know much more now about the subject than then....believe me.
Which one? Harpoon 3 has custom settings for that and does have weather etc, sea state, and keep in mind that it is 10 years old and still has no peer.
Well for the short term yes but it is not dead. Ubisofts involvement is though. The French screwed it up again.
What? have you played the latest versions? Crap the 1998 version yes but the new one has CUSTOM load times, if you are just getting fuel then a few minutes but if you want strike packages you will be waiting a few hours. I to hated that for years and would try to discipline myself but now there is no need.
Harpoon HQ What is Harpoon 3 DB 2000?
Harpoon 3 is the vastly improved Windows (Windows 95, 98, ME, NT 4.0, Windows 2000 and Windows XP) and Mac (OS and OSX) version of Harpoon II. Harpoon 3 for PC was released in mid-February 2002 while Harpoon 3 for Macintosh was released back in 2001. The simulator contains a myriad of new features and bug fixes, too numerous to mention all. Here are some:
- full compatibility with existing Harpoon II scenarios and databases.
- 10x - 12x improvement in game speed over Harpoon II.
- the ability to run in a window (Windows-version only, not Mac).
- supports resolution up to 1280 x 1024 x 256.
- custom ready times for aircraft (March 2003 - a truly revolutionary feature in the sim world!).
- New electronic warfare model (July 2004, the DB2000 database was updated accordingly).
- fully-implemented After-Action Log.
- re-mapped hotkeys for laptop computers, 'alternative' hotkeys added for non-English keyboards.
- Movie Maker; when activated, Harpoon3 automatically takes screenshots at selected intervals (January 2003).
- Shape/GIS (Geographic Information System); add geographical data to your scenarios (December 2002).
- nuclear weapons fully work.
- rate-of-fire bug fixed.
- thermal layer works.
- terrain-following works.
- random radar fringe bug fixed.
- highlight- and order problems for waypoints solved.
- critical Mount underrun bug fixed.
- Ship fuel state quirks fixed.
- Torps can now be fired under ice.
Well here I would agree you do not have a waterfall display but you have the options of playing 'super' real where you can not even communicate in realtime with subs but I never play that way although I should. the Sonar models have been redone and is much harder, Especially in 2002 they are down right nasty.
Originally posted by COOL HAND
No foolin', but at least you do not have to get a skin to skin for a kill. That is why you can get hits on a manuevering contact with the Phoenix.
Because you speak like someone who has never used the real equipment.
And why did you think that? Keep in mind that I know much more now about the subject than then....believe me.
Originally posted by COOL HANDSea state has no effect on your speed, or the enviroment when you are doing your ASW work. Nor does it prevent you from launching aircraft or missiles.
Originally posted by COOL HANDWhy can't they just use the real load times in the game? DW has two settings for that. One for near instant, and the second for realistic.
Originally posted by COOL HANDGeez, what are you? A salesman for them?
Originally posted by COOL HANDThe sonar models are not even close to what you see in the real world. Hell, you can't even get realistic performance out of your towed array sonar.