Why does Most of the Arab World Deny Jews/Israel Belong in the MIddle East.

Given the latest outburst from the Iranian President I really have to wonder about the denial of the Arab world in regards to the existance of Jews in the Middle East.

I know the history of "we were here first, no WE were here first", I just don't get the implication that many Arab leaders seem to give that the Jewish people never had a nationstate there. The historical evidence is just too great to deny that the Kingdom of Israel at one time existed in the general region of where the Current state of Israel is currently.

Why is this historical fact seemingly glossed over by the Arab world? I know the Modern day feelings on both sides inflame things but I just have never "gotten" the denial of most of the Arab world when it comes to Jews having a history/place in the Middle East. I'm sure I am beating a dead and already pulverized horse but I would like to hear a rational answer for the this.

im not shure if there would be a good explaination but there seem to be alot people not just the arabs that would wish to turn its back on the jewish/hebrew and there history.....

Plus muslims have the doctrine that once a land is conquered by muslims, if it is lost, they can never rest until it is re-conquered. Even though, historically, the Hebrews were there at least 1,500 years before the muslims. To them, Israel is such a land and since it sits right in the middle of all their other countries, they can't ignore it. It just sits there irritating them by its mere presence, even though by the muslim's own logic, the Israelis should feel the exact same way about the muslims.

[edit on 12/8/2005 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211
the Hebrews were there at least 1,500 years before the muslims.
[edit on 12/8/2005 by centurion1211]

I don't think that the Muslim religion was even started til about 600 ad so why should they have any claim on the land?

I think that most of the arab world doesn't care about Israel.

But most of the arab regimes do use it as a convenient scapegoat for their corrupt and incompetent failed states and to focus their citizens on a common foe to avoid discontent from their citizens.

I agree with Netchicken on how Israel is often used as a scapegoat. But being used as a scapegoat does IMHO make alot of the arab world care about Israel.

If you were told a country was the root of alot of your problems wouldnt you care? You state lies as facts enough and people start to believe them.

It's all well and fine for Non muslims to put forth their ideas. What I am really interested is in the Muslims out there to explain their side without resorting to the same old "party-line" that we hear all the time. I understand that at one time or another many different Countries and Empires have ruled the area.

I understand most Muslims do not like the existance of the State of Israel. What I want to hear is your rational for seemingly ignoring the Hebrew/Jewish presence that is historically proven in the area of Modern Israel/Palestine. Do they have a right to exist there? Only under Muslim rule? Doesn't that seem at odds with the aspirations of the Palestinian People. If the Jews can't live in self rule, why should the Palestinians?

It always sounds to me like the Muslim/Arab world makes it sound as if the Hebrews/Jews were never in the area before the turn of the century. That simply is not the case, so why the self denial.

If the American Indians decided to take the US back by force, do you think we'd just give it to them? Seriously, I'm hardly part of the "Israel has no right to exist crowd", but why the Arabs object to other Arabs geting kicked out of places they've lived for over a thousand years is not terribly hard to understand.

Maybe it is because the whole area is hell forsaken # hole, and anger, hatred, and war are so embedded n their culture that the only way they know how to react is with extremism.

Why does Most of the Arab World Deny Jews/Israel Belong in the MIddle East?

Hmmmm...

Let me just answer with this quote by mister Noam Chomsky:

"In the American Jewish community, there is little willingness to face the fact that the Palestinian Arabs have suffered a monstrous historical injustice, whatever one may think of the competing claims. Until this is recognized, discussion of the Middle East crisis cannot even begin."



[edit on 10-12-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Maybe it is because the whole area is hell forsaken # hole, and anger, hatred, and war are so embedded n their culture that the only way they know how to react is with extremism.

That’s not very nice. I don’t hate Israel or you or any western person. It is you who calls where I come from a "**** hole" and insult my culture. Now this is hypocrisy at its clearest. A secure person from a cultured background does not generalize.

I can guarantee you if I called the US a name, which I will not because of the way I was brought up in the "**** hole" and the "war embedded culture" passed on to me by my parents, I would have gotten a warning.




[edit on 9-12-2005 by Sep]

Originally posted by Sep
I can guarantee you if I called the US a name, which I will not because of the way I was brought up in the "**** hole" and the "war embedded culture" passed on to me by my parents, I would have gotten a warning.

Yes, but you can not do that. See, it is OKEY to say how you will "Wipe Iran off the Map", and it is OKEY to say "god forsaken a** hole of a country" - but GODFORBID to say something against the HOLY Isreal and the BRAVE America.




[edit on 9/12/05 by Souljah]

Originally posted by xmotex
If the American Indians decided to take the US back by force, do you think we'd just give it to them? Seriously, I'm hardly part of the "Israel has no right to exist crowd", but why the Arabs object to other Arabs geting kicked out of places they've lived for over a thousand years is not terribly hard to understand.

This is an excellent point that I hope won't be lost on this thread.

Until we get out of the mindset that one side has the monopoly on evil and the other on good then we aren't going to get anywhere.

Some arabs have cited some very dodgy archaeology to claim that Israel originally was in Yemen. I'll try and find a source for this, as personally I think it's a load of complete rubbish as the archaeology is very clear about ancient Israel being exactly where it's always been.

Found the theory on Wikipedia. I'd like to stress that it's an extreme minority opinion, with few actual adherents. Because it's a load of honk. Massive honk. Mountains of Honk! Here's the link: en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Souljah
Why does Most of the Arab World Deny Jews/Israel Belong in the MIddle East?

Hmmmm...

Let me just answer with this quote by mister Noam Chomsky:

"In the American Jewish community, there is little willingness to face the fact that the Palestinian Arabs have suffered a monstrous historical injustice, whatever one may think of the competing claims. Until this is recognized, discussion of the Middle East crisis cannot even begin."

Noam Chomsky is a complete @#$%@&^*%$#. (in my opinion)

Has anyone considered that many of the Palestinians are converted Jews who did not leave? Where do you think all those Palestinians came from? They are Arabised but that does not mean they are "real" Arabs. Native Americans speak English and identify themselves as US citizens - does that mean they are Anglo-Saxon invaders?

Why must only one of the peoples be indigenous and therefore have a claim? Even in ancient times, several people other than Jews lived in the area, such as the Canaanites.

Israel is seen as the last bastion of colonialism imposed on the Middle East. It's not difficult to see why Iranians or Arabs would have a problem with that. Add in the injustice that Palestinians have suffered and it's easy to see why Iranians and Arabs might be a tad upset with Israel.

PS
Iran is not an Arab country. It has no claim itself on Palestine. Many Jews live in Iran unlike the Arab world.

[edit on 9-12-2005 by Kamangir]

To focus the topic again its not that the Palestinians have/have not a claim. It is the Arab world's denial of the evidence that the Hebrew people are of the Middle east area as well.

"In the American Jewish community, there is little willingness to face the fact that the Palestinian Arabs have suffered a monstrous historical injustice, whatever one may think of the competing claims. Until this is recognized, discussion of the Middle East crisis cannot even begin."

There is more that enough "monstrous historical injustice on both sides to go around.

Again I ask why the Denial of Jews ever having a presence in the area. Until THAT is recognized by the Arab/Muslim world......there will not be a solution.

The great stubborness on BOTH sides is what is preventing peace. Until that is addressed nothing will be achieved. It's hard to negotiate with someone who wants to "wipe you off the map" is it not?

Originally posted by pavil

The great stubborness on BOTH sides is what is preventing peace. Until that is addressed nothing will be achieved.

Pavil, U ask this question expecting a straight forward answer, as we all would. Perhaps it is not so straight forward. What if these people don't even know what they're fighting for ? If I had a dollar for every time I have personally heard a Muslim generalize and disrespect a whole people, just for being Jewish, I'd be retired at 27. I can't stand it. And it's always because of a different reason.

There will never be peace there, well I doubt I will be alive to see it IMO and that is truly saddening.

I'm gonna keep an eye on this baby, I too am curious and enjoying everyone's responses.

Originally posted by Sep
That’s not very nice. I don’t hate Israel or you or any western person. It is you who calls where I come from a "**** hole" and insult my culture. Now this is hypocrisy at its clearest. A secure person from a cultured background does not generalize.

I can guarantee you if I called the US a name, which I will not because of the way I was brought up in the "**** hole" and the "war embedded culture" passed on to me by my parents, I would have gotten a warning.

I call it like I see it.

The "culture" has women playing the part of human property. The dominant religion is responsable for crazed lunatics who commit suicide in order to kill OTHER people (funny enough, often times their own). The leaders constantly chant death to Isreal, death to America. The religious leaders act as recruiters for terrorists. Right now, the middle east is worthless from a cultural prospective IMO.

As with every area of the globe, there are some good things that came out of the middle east. Right now though, it is a hell hole.

Make any generalisations you want about my nation, it means nothing to me.