NEWS: Intelligent Design Opponent Hospitalized after Beating.

Kansas University professor Paul Mirecki was hospitalized after a early morning roadside confrontation where he was attacked by two men. Mirecki gained recent notoriety recently when he announced he was going to teach ID in a mythology course. The men allegedly made reference to this controversy during the beating.



This is truly unfortunate. It's a little difficult to believe that an intellectual controversy can become this heated. I've seen scientists that I thought were going to have at it at meetings before, but they have a vested interest in the data. Certainly having a vested interest in something is no reason to resort to violence, but I can't imagine what these people's reason was. Certainly the topic can get heated and intense, but I've never wanted to throw down with anyone over it. What's particularly disturbing in this case is the pre-meditation that seems to have been involved. It's like these guys took Mirecki's comments personally.

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Yeah, I read this earlier today here. It's a horrible shame that one can feel so devoted to following Christ that, in His defense, they choose not to follow Christ. The Bible mentions someone else who followed Christ but tried to do it in his own way. It didn't work out very well for Judas, either.

I hope the people who did this to the professor are exposed, and that they're exposed by their fellow Christians, if, in fact, they are Christians. This is not how you win an intellectual argument.

It's the people that deny their monkey ancestry the most who end up having the most animal like behavior...

Beating a defenseless middle aged academic, how very Christ-like of these two individuals. Reminds me of why I don't live in the south or the midwest, too many self righteous religious crazies...

It's the people that deny their monkey ancestry the most who end up having the most animal like behavior...

This was another reason I think the people who did this need to be punished by their peers. Now, because a few individuals did this, bigots are going to apply their standard to all Christians and all of those who think either God created the Universe or have problems with Darwin's evolution.

exactly. thanks to two extremists, all christians will now be attacked for this confrontation. remind you of any other religion in the world right now in which extremists are hijacking the main religion?

on the other side of the coin, my understanding is that the emails this professor sent out were anything but professional. not that its an excuse, but your "poor middle-aged professor" sounds like he was goating for an attack like this to get some headlines, IMHO.

Yes, the emails were not very professional, though I doubt he was expecting something like this to happen.

I wonder if there were any witnesses. It doesn't seem like he was hurt too badly, fortunately. The story leaves me wanting... how did he get away, how long did the attack last, were there any other drivers on the road, etc.? For some reason the story doesn't seem 'right' to me.

Ahh, I was going to use the example of what's taking place with Islam, as well. I was also going to say that many people who are very willing to group Christians together based on these two individual's actions or based on abortion clinic bombings, etc. are usually the loudest and most passionate when someone tries to do the same thing based on race.

As to this professor's unprofessionalism, so what? Yeah, the guy's a jerk, but as you said that doesn't justify these actions. We see this kind of thing here on ATS all the time. Someone comes out swinging, egging on Christians, trying their hardest to press their buttons. If they're successful, immediately the person recoils as though in their complete innocence this assault by the angry Christian caught them totally by surprise. Then the response is along the lines of, was that very Christian of you?

By beating the crap out of this professor, these people gave far more weight to his arguments and viewpoint than he had as a professor with a fight to pick with Christianity.

It doesn't bode will for the argument of 'Intelligent' design, either...

Sorry, I just wanted to lighten it up a bit.

This is really a sad situation when people resort to beating up on other people for their beliefs...

I don't think it adds any weight to his arguments per se.

I do think however, that it takes the focus off of his unprofessionalism, ( as Jake said "So what") and puts the attention back onto the ID movement. Furthermore, it associates the ID movement with these types of #&%#!@'s. Note I didn't use the word fundamentalist, or Christian, at this point this is speculation. It seems like the logical choice given the circumstances, but you never know.

Though, he really couldn't have planned a better incident to re-focus attention on "Intelligent Design Creationism, " instead of his incredibly unprofessional behavior.

This is really a sad situation when people resort to beating up on other people for their beliefs...

I wouldn't go that far, BH. I believe rape is wrong. If I saw someone raping someone else in an alley, I would (hopefully) head in that direction and proceed to beat someone up for that belief.

This professor's ideas did become more persuasive with this incident. Primarily, if I were to be an outsider looking in and saw that one side of an intellectual debate decided to try to silence and terrorize their opponents physically, I would come to a simple conclusion. They lost the debate intellectually, so they're going to try to win in any other way. If I didn't know anything about the ID/Evo debate, this incident would clinch it for me.

[edit on 12-6-2005 by junglejake]

It appears Intelligent Design proponents really are the minority- even in religious circles...

Intelligent Design Might Be Meeting Its Maker

TO read the headlines, intelligent design as a challenge to evolution seems to be building momentum.

In Kansas last month, the board of education voted that students should be exposed to critiques of evolution like intelligent design. At a trial of the Dover, Pa., school board that ended last month, two of the movement's leading academics presented their ideas to a courtroom filled with spectators and reporters from around the world. President Bush endorsed teaching "both sides" of the debate - a position that polls show is popular. And Pope Benedict XVI weighed in recently, declaring the universe an "intelligent project."

Intelligent design posits that the complexity of biological life is itself evidence of a higher being at work. As a political cause, the idea has gained currency, and for good reason. The movement was intended to be a "big tent" that would attract everyone from biblical creationists who regard the Book of Genesis as literal truth to academics who believe that secular universities are hostile to faith. The slogan, "Teach the controversy," has simple appeal in a democracy.

Behind the headlines, however, intelligent design as a field of inquiry is failing to gain the traction its supporters had hoped for. It has gained little support among the academics who should have been its natural allies. And if the intelligent design proponents lose the case in Dover, there could be serious consequences for the movement's credibility.

On college campuses, the movement's theorists are academic pariahs, publicly denounced by their own colleagues. Design proponents have published few papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals.

The Templeton Foundation, a major supporter of projects seeking to reconcile science and religion, says that after providing a few grants for conferences and courses to debate intelligent design, they asked proponents to submit proposals for actual research.

"They never came in," said Charles L. Harper Jr., senior vice president at the Templeton Foundation, who said that while he was skeptical from the beginning, other foundation officials were initially intrigued and later grew disillusioned.

"From the point of view of rigor and intellectual seriousness, the intelligent design people don't come out very well in our world of scientific review," he said.

While intelligent design has hit obstacles among scientists, it has also failed to find a warm embrace at many evangelical Christian colleges. Even at conservative schools, scholars and theologians who were initially excited about intelligent design say they have come to find its arguments unconvincing. They, too, have been greatly swayed by the scientists at their own institutions and elsewhere who have examined intelligent design and found it insufficiently substantiated in comparison to evolution...

more...

Thank goodness reason prevails on occasion....

Originally posted by junglejake
This professor's ideas did become more persuasive with this incident. Primarily, if I were to be an outsider looking in and saw that one side of an intellectual debate decided to try to silence and terrorize their opponents physically, I would come to a simple conclusion. They lost the debate intellectually, so they're going to try to win in any other way.

The professor's ideas haven't changed. The prof's idea that ID is mythology is no more or less credible than before the beating. Because he was beaten by some people whose motivations have yet to be defined is unfortunate, but does nothing to the intellectual credibilty of IDT.

Now if the attackers were Behe and Dembski, with Johnson on lookout, that's a different story.

By that Logic, Jake, if Dawkins attacks Behe is the theory of common descent somehow suddenly less credible?

I would say yes, in my mind, it would. After all, if a point was raised where the opposition's only response isn't to address the point but instead attack physically the individual making the point, it tells me they have no counter. Does it make it true? No, not necessarily, but human psychology doesn't always let those pesky facts get in the way of making a decision.

Originally posted by junglejake
We see this kind of thing here on ATS all the time. Someone comes out swinging, egging on Christians, trying their hardest to press their buttons. If they're successful, immediately the person recoils as though in their complete innocence this assault by the angry Christian caught them totally by surprise. Then the response is along the lines of, was that very Christian of you?

You mean like this bit of egging? ( I bolded the egg in question)

Originally posted by junglejake
...because a few individuals did this, bigots are going to apply their standard to all Christians and all of those who think either God created the Universe or have problems with Darwin's evolution.

Wouldn't your 'counter' have held just as much water with out the use of the word bigot??

What would you call someone who applies a set personality to everyone of a certain group based on the actions of an individual?

Originally posted by junglejake
if a point was raised where the opposition's only response isn't to address the point but instead attack physically the individual making the point, it tells me they have no counter.

Okay... a couple of things... Firstly this professor didn't raise any 'points' of contention. He attempted no philosophical or intellectual rebuttal of ID. He merely said something akin to let's do this, as it will really infuriate one particular group of people.

Secondly, a couple of Redneck's with a chip on their shoulder, too much Milwaukee's Best before 7 am, and a pick up truck hardly represent 'the opposition.'

On the topic of said professors unprofessionalism...keep in mind, there are no witnesses, only his claim as to what the motivation was. Strange, I smell a little something with this...does anyone else?


What better unprofessional way to discredit your opponents than to say they beat you, when there are no witnesses to confirm or deny? After all, look how many here took the bait...

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
On the topic of said professors unprofessionalism...keep in mind, there are no witnesses, only his claim as to what the motivation was. Strange, I smell a little something with this...does anyone else?

Saturine... check out my post about 6 or 8 posts back where I state:

I wonder if there were any witnesses. It doesn't seem like he was hurt too badly, fortunately. The story leaves me wanting... how did he get away, how long did the attack last, were there any other drivers on the road, etc.? For some reason the story doesn't seem 'right' to me.

Originally posted by mattison0922 It's a little difficult to believe that an intellectual controversy can become this heated.

Really, not even after the years of people being burnt at the stake, inquisitions, and the dark ages?

Deja vu. ...Did this same scenario play out somewhere else, for the same reason? Seems to me it did. As I said - deja vu, but no precise memory. Anyone else remember?