The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Fact or Fiction?

Before i post links, quotes and arguements about The Protocols of the Elders Of zion, I would like to make it clear that i Do not want this thread turn into a Jew bashing topic. Feel free to post your opinons or add anything to the subject.

What is The Protocols Of Elders Of Zion?

The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", the most notorious and
most successful work of modern antisemitism, draws on popular
antisemitic notions which have their roots in medieval Europe from
the time of the Crusades. The libels that the Jews used blood of
Christian children for the Feast of Passover, poisoned the wells
and spread the plague were pretexts for the wholesale destruction
of Jewish communities throughout Europe. Tales were circulated
among the masses of secret rabbinical conferences whose aim was
to subjugate and exterminate the Christians, and motifs like these
are found in early antisemitic literature.

The conceptual inspiration for the Protocols can be traced
back to the time of the French Revolution at the end of the 18th
century. At that time, a French Jesuit named Abbe Barruel,
representing reactionary elements opposed to the revolution,
published in 1797 a treatise blaming the Revolution on a secret
conspiracy operating through the Order of Freemasons. Barruel's
idea was nonsense, since the French nobility at the time was heavily
Masonic, but he was influenced by a Scottish mathematician named
Robison who was opposed to the Masons. In his treatise, Barruel
did not himself blame the Jews, who were emancipated as a result
of the Revolution. However, in 1806, Barruel circulated a forged
letter, probably sent to him by members of the state police opposed
to Napoleon Bonaparte's liberal policy toward the Jews, calling
attention to the alleged part of the Jews in the conspiracy he had
earlier attributed to the Masons. This myth of an international Jewish
conspiracy reappeared later on in 19th century Europe in places such
as Germany and Poland.

Introduction

What did Hitler have to say about this?

In The Holocaust: The Destruction of European Jewry 1933-1945, Nora Levin states that "Hitler used the Protocols as a manual in his war to exterminate the Jews":

Despite conclusive proof that the Protocols were a gross forgery, they had sensational popularity and large sales in the 1920's and 1930's. They were translated into every language of Europe and sold widely in Arab lands, the United States, and England. But it was in Germany after World War I that they had their greatest success. There they were used to explain all of the disasters that had befallen the country: the defeat in the war, the hunger, the destructive inflation (19).
In contrast to Hitler's rantings (below), Nazi leader Erich von dem Bach-Zelewsky admitted that there really was no "Jewish menace" (j�dische Gefahr) -- to use Hitler's own phrase in Mein Kampf -- or conspiracy for world domination:


I am the only living witness but I must say the truth. Contrary to the opinion of the National Socialists, that the Jews were a highly organized group, the appalling fact was that they had no organization whatsoever. The mass of the Jewish people were taken complete by surprise. They did not know at all what to do; they had no directives or slogans as to how they should act. This is the greatest lie of anti-Semitism because it gives the lie to that old slogan that the Jews are conspiring to dominate the world and that they are so highly organized. In reality, they had no organization of their own at all, not even an information service. If they had had some sort of organization, these people could have been saved by the millions, but instead, they were taken completely by surprise. Never before has a people gone as unsuspectingly to its disaster. Nothing was prepared. Absolutely nothing (20).

Hitler and the Protocols

But wait, it does seem that the protocols stirs hate and has helped to build hate towards the jews.

So what is it - fact or fiction?

The earliest copies were apparently written in French. It is generally believed that a copy of the Protocols was in circulation as early as 1884, a full 13 years before the Basle congress.

The most damning evidence against the document being authentic is that modern scholars have proved that the Protocols was based in part on a satirical attack on the French Emperor Napoleon III by Maurice Joly, written and printed in Geneva in 1864.

The pamphlet was titled Dialogues from Hell between Machiavelli and Montesquieu.

In 1868 the German Hermann Goedsche, writing under the pseudonym Sir John Radcliffe, adapted Joly's pamphlet and turned it into a mythical tale of a Jewish conspiracy as part of a series of novels entitled Biarritz.

In it he writes of a secret centennial rabbinical conference which meets at midnight and whose purpose is to review the past 100 years and to plan the next century.

These two documents - the pamphlet and the novel - were later reworked into a document titled the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which was taken to Russia in 1895 and printed privately in 1897.

Throughout its history it has been used in the cause of anti-semitism and forms an integral part of a long history of the demonisation of Judaism and Jews.

Fake 'Protocols' Aims to Stir Hatred for Jews

From looking it does seem that the only thing the protocol has done, is helped to build anti-semtic views and genocide. Now, do i think the document is a fake? yes. The document appeared during the time of the begining of the Zionist movement and it does make sense that this document was made to crush Zionism. I feel that the authors of the document wanted the world to think that Zionist and Jews want world domination, this is far from the truth. Zionism is about returning Jews back to their homeland, Israel, and building a Jewish state. But Zionism does have its bad points, hidden agendas,etc but this is a totally different subject. The document was intended to stir up hate against jews and that is what it has acheived.

Whether written by Jews against Gentiles (oops) or written by Gentiles against Jews.....one truth remains....And that is that some of the Protocols seem to have come to pass and are at this very moment coming to pass. My thoughts on this are that they were written by a group of men who go beyond the whole Jew and Gentile thing. The protocols were written by GLOBALISTS....power hungry men which includes many nationalities, religions and races. Men with one thing in common....desire to have global POWER. I think they are real.

...fin



[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Cocco]

Of course Cocco, the document was probably faked by globalist, but the plot about jews planning to take over the world, is far from the truth.

It was written by communists, what people fail to see is a zionist jew--is a nazi. T

Here is a thread which is entitled "the So called Jews are behind the NWO"

Link

The thread does contain some views on the protocols. Two questions remain unanswered, if the document is fake, why write it? secondly, if it is somehow true, which jews are behind it?? normal jews or the so called "jews"?

also you can download the protocol here

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by infinite]

Here is what a well known Jewish website makes of the protocol;

Introduction
It is a classic in paranoid, racist literature. Taken by the gullible as the confidential minutes of a Jewish conclave convened in the last years of the nineteenth century, it has been heralded by anti-Semites as proof that Jews are plotting to take over the world. Since its contrivance around the turn of the century by the Russian Okhrana, or Czarist secret police, "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" has taken root in bigoted, frightened minds around the world.

The booklet�s twenty-four sections spell out the alleged secret plans of Jewish leaders seeking to attain world domination. They represent the most notorious political forgery of modern times. Although thoroughly discredited, the document is still being used to stir up anti-Semitic hatred.

Origins of the Protocols
Serge Nilus, a little-known Czarist official in Moscow, edited several editions of the Protocols, each with a different account of how he discovered the document. In his 1911 edition Nilus claimed that his source had stolen the document from (a non-existent) Zionist headquarters in France. Other "editors" of the Protocols maintained that the document was read at the First Zionist Congress held in 1897 in Basel, Switzerland.

Note: According to reputable scholars, including Prof. Norman Cohn in his noted book, Warrant for Genocide, the world-control myth was actually lifted from a 19th century French politcal satire in which the alleged plotters weren�t even Jewish.

The Hoax Spreads
Impact of the Bolshevik Revolution

After the Russian Revolution in 1917, frustrated supporters of the ousted Czar rescued the document from obscurity in order to discredit the Bolsheviks. The emigre Czarists portrayed the Revolution as part of a Jewish plot to enslave the world, and pointed to the Protocols as the blueprint of that plan. The scheme of yoking the Protocols to the Bolshevik Revolution not only led to the allegation of a Judeo-Communist conspiracy, but promoted the forgery internationally. In later years, vicious Soviet anti-Semitic propaganda under Stalin and others echoed the conspiracy mythology of the Protocols.

A Hoax of Hate

Taken from "Three World Wars" website...this is also an interesting view! This is somewhat what I believe. The Protocols are prophetic in the sense that they are accomplishing what is written. We need to look beyond the surface of "who" they were written by and look into the content. The truth remains that the "elite" will go to ANY extent to accomplish their goals.


"The fact also remains that since their publication, world events have unfolded exactly according to their description. We are gradually being mobilised into a New World Order. The One World Government is being facilitated by the gradual movement of nation states into larger power blocks such as the European Union and NAFTA etc. The United Nations has come into power as a global police force under the excuse of being a protector and benefactor of the world, exactly as outlined in the Protocols. The Jews have symbolically "returned to Palestine", as the State of Israel now exists as the official universal "homeland" of all Jews, despite the vast majority of Jews having no racial connection with Israel whatsoever.

It is my belief that rather than being the plan of Jewish leaders to control the world as many believe, this document is really the Grand Plan to create the One-World Government, Economy, and Satanic religion known as the New World Order.� The reason it was written as a thin veneer of a Jewish conspiracy to conquer the world for their Messiah, was so that the document would be thoroughly discredited, and forgotten.� Once the vast numbers of the peoples of the world had discredited the Protocols, the Grand Plan could be used quite freely as a blueprint on how to achieve global government, religion, and economy. "

Infinite....this may be a stupid question but HOW do you put the quoted info in a the shaded area???

The scripture talks about the so-called Jews and states that...

There are some to proclaim to be Jews and are NOT but are a synagogue of SATAN.

It is these that have written the Protocols, I believe. They have "pretended" to be what they are not to accomplish their goals.

Originally posted by Cocco
Infinite....this may be a stupid question but HOW do you put the quoted info in a the shaded area???

when you quote it displays the quote into that shaded area

I agree that they're a dangerous form of hatemongering and a tool that's being used today to stir up trouble. Snopes has several instances in the urban legends database where Arab newspapers used Protocols in articles (about Jews needing the blood of good Arab children to bake their passover bread) designed to stir up trouble.

One of the nastiest hoaxes around, and particularly vile because of what it continues to do. So many who want to feel victimized buy into this.

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Byrd]

Byrd, excellent post im reading through the links now

By the way, here's one by "The Man" himself, the father of Semiotics, you know him, you love him, let's all give a warm round of applause for

Umberto Eco!!!!

P.S. Remembering the history of this, I think it's instructive to note the the work that would originally become the "Protocols" originally attributed the Evil Master Plan to us Freemasons. See, Anti-Masons don't just hurt us, they hurt the rest of the world, too!

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by AlexKennedy]

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by AlexKennedy]

Ooops! I nuked the references to make a comment. Agh.

Googling on "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" plus literary hoax will bring them up, however.

I agree with Cocco..........

If this was fictional propaganda directed against Jewish people in general, subsequent events have demonstrated that this was no work of fiction but a blueprint for a long term strategy that we can all see gradually taking shape.

One thing is for sure, time tends to expose most lies and deceptions, but the truth stands firm and time only makes the truth grow clearer and stronger.

I believe it is also very important to distinguish between Zionists and the bulk of people that follow the Jewish faith. While all Zionists are Jewish, very few Jews are Zionists. This is a very important distinction.

It is like saying that anyone that claims Bill Clinton is a moral degenerate is spreading vile ethnic hatred against ALL Americans. Not a good example, but I hope you see my point.

The whole NWO thing seems to always point back to the Rothschild's and a powerful group of international bankers and financiers that all just happen to be Jewish. This has absolutely nothing at all to do with antisemitism, it happens to be the simple truth.

Im still doing research into it and here is a quick update. Apparently, all the things which are stated in the protocol are coming to light, single currency etc. Sadly, its hard to believe if thats true due to the fact the source for this claim is a white supremist site.

I have e-mailed a highly respected Rabbi, so i can get his thoughts on the protocol, still awaiting his reply though.

You may find what you're looking for at

users.cyberone.com.au...

[edit on 7-6-2004 by avflf]

"Protocols" have been exposed as Masonic more than once but not online.

They might be an authentic conspiracy document but they are probably not Jewish, the Israeli dissident Israel Shamir reviewed them long ago and noted that, while they are too concise and brilliant to be forgeries, European Jews would not be stupid enough to incriminate themselves that way.

On the other hand, Masons consider themselves the true heirs of Zion and they would be stupid enough to incriminate themselves. It's a labyrinth of a subject, however, so no word can be the last word.

Originally posted by avflf
You may find what you're looking for at

users.cyberone.com.au...

[edit on 7-6-2004 by avflf]

avflf, you are officially the dude!
right im off for a good read now

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a literary forgery.
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a literary forgery

Two past ATS threads on this topic:
The Protocols of the Learned elders of zion
Those damn protocols won't go away...




seekerof



[edit on 8-6-2004 by Seekerof]