The mental in fundaMENTAList

As a young man in my 20's I spent several years involved in a Pentacostal Church. Got born-again, the whole nine yards. I read the Bible, with the exception of Revelations which, it seemed to me, was so incoherent that it could be made to mean anything, so I always avoided it. I had been a wild kid and ran with the party crowd. I had a job but spent way too much of my money and time in bars, chasing women and getting high on pot. I was looking for something a little more meaningful in my life. A friend from work suggeted I join his church group and I did. I left after two years in complete disgust. What I had discovered was that all of the holier-than-thou folks were just the same as the people I'd been hanging out in the bars to begin with! They were liars, cheaters, thieves, abusers, drunks and dopers, shallow, selfish, and most of them were fornicating like mad. When they were in church they would all pretend that absolutely none of that was going on and they would often raise their voices in condemnation of those unsaved fools that had been my former friends in the bars etc. But when they had you in a private setting they were either hitting on you or gossiping like crazy about all of the sinful crap that the other church members were up to! My last Sunday in church, I was attending with the woman I was dating. She had been recently divorced. One of the Church Elders, a lady I knew was cheating on her husband with another guy in the church, rose up to condemn my girlfriend and I for Adultery because, according to her, my girl was STILL married to her former creep of a husband in the eyes of God! That was the last straw. I had really had it with these phony S.O.B.'s.

before all of that, during the course the years, I had gotten to know these people better and better and I had begun to discern subtle similar patterns in their backgrounds. Many of these people, especially the guys, had been socially quite awkward as children. Many of them were no good at athletics and had shyed away from competition and conflict. Many of them had been picked on brutally by the socially adept and made the butt of cruel jokes and humiliations. It was striking how often the persecutions of their childhoods would creep into their private conversations with me and there was often a palpable tone of hatred and envy in their voices.

Many years later it began to dawn on me that the reason that they all were so devoted to the church was because it had offered them an imaginary place where THEY were the adepts and the elites and all of those jocks and cool kids were the outcasts. Once they felt inferior, but, in their church, they were the chosen of God and adored by none other than Jesus Christ himself, the savior of the world! Many of these guys were almost pschyzophrenic in church. Privately they confessed to feeling helplessness in their 9 to 5 lives, but in church they openly boasted of having power over demons! In a lot of ways the church was like a kind of therapy for these feeble little people. In their real lives they were still nobodies but the church provided a "Dungeons-and-Dragons"-like fantasy environment where they were empowered. In church they were no longer misfits but champions of the Most High, and righteous, oh so righteous, even while they were screwing the pastor's wife!

I believe that feeling of finally having one-up on all of those more capable than them is like a drug to their poor damaged egos. The bullies might have s'n-word'-snagged on them once, but the jokes on the bullies because they are going to Hell to burn forever while their righteous victim will ascend into heaven where he will always be adored for the great person he really is! It's all so perfect, all so therapeutic and so, so pathetic.

So, if you're wondering why these sadly twisted creatures are now trying to screw you over and insert themselves and their "divine" authority into your life, it's because there also exists a different creature in their fantasy playland. There are wolves disguised as sheep that traverse their mythic landscape. These creatures were never ostracized at school and have never felt inadequate. On the contrary, these creatures are able to navigate even the most treacherous of social waters with ease and grace. They are predators of the highest order who use the disaffected for their own personal gain. Psychologist would classify many of these people as classic sociopaths for they have no real regard for others. The only thing that matters to them is their ambitions. Many of them are striking and charismatic individuals, but they all are as cold as a coiled cobra. In my brief stay with the Pentacostal Church I met a number of these vipers. They always came on in the same fashion. When they met you they would stare intensely into your eyes. I never looked away. If they took my hand I squeezed it just as hard as they, sometimes harder. Sometimes I would rock their knuckles together. I was rebuked on several occassions as being arrogant. They weren't wrong in that assessment!

The recently reviled Pat Robertson would be an excellent example of the kind of creature I speak of. They all occupy high positions within their respective churches and, make no mistake, for these guys, the church is just a money-making machine, nothing more. It's a lucrative racket. They know all the right moves and say all the right things to keep their flocks in line and fleeced on a regular basis. Many of them are almost artists of the religious con. It may well have been Pat himself that first realized the political potential of being able to deliver the Zombie Vote to the highest bidder. Since then churches of many denominations have followed suit, and now the so-called Religious Right stands as a towering testament to the childish revenge desires of their sheeple and the all-encompassing greed and lust of those who deliberately exploit them and their many weaknesses.

As for me, I've been studying Religions for a long long time now. I'm a dilletante in some respects. I take what I find useful from this philosophy and that and then chuck the dross out the window. To me the only real use for religion is the perfection of the self. Unlike those poor bastards that I was rubbing shoulders with for two misbegotten years, I have never required divine intervention to navigate my life nor illogical superstition to comfort me in times of duress. Guess that's why I'm just Godless and proud of it.

Originally posted by The Blind EyeReligion has done an excellent job of providing an endless stream of mental sheeple to derail true progress... and to provide the essential smoke and mirrors for profit driven crimes to be committed domestically and a broad in our name.

Your Hyphothesis is incorrect.

To begin with, it is unrealistic to say that Religion has stood in the way of true progress.
The things you are saying are a product of disinformation and propaganda that has been pushed onto the masses for the last 20 years.

Regardless of what you think Religion has done to negatively impact our world, the truth of the matter, is that for thousands of years, religion of one form or another has fueled and inspired great thinkers from all over the world, and every discipline. Religion has also been instrumental over and over again, when it came to oppressed people finding the strength and vision to overcome the impossible.

Religion may be akin to a belief in what cannot be seen or measured. But, for some reason, it sometimes takes just that, in order to defeat what seems invincible, or overcome what can't be overcome.

So, maybe Religion really does have a place.

One more thing. I have been around, and I have seen a lot. And, I cannot count the times that I have seen people who don't believe in God, call upon him when they reach the bottom of the barrel. When things are horrible.
Which happens to everybody at one point or another.
And, just as I said before, when things become impossible, that is when I have seen the most ardent Bible-smashers fall to their knees, look around, make sure nobody sees, and begin to pray. It never fails.
And, there is nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact, it is totally normal.
The problem is, that I have also seen the vast majority, after the prayer, and after, for whatever reason, things work out, or they survive, they never want to acknowledge that for just a little while, they were looking around for a "God", and hoping they had been wrong about his nonexistence.

[edit on 20/1/10 by ThePublicSpirit]

reply to post by The Blind Eye

Hmmm...we could also think about:
The "war" in Global WARming
And the "list" in SociaLIST
The "child" in the RothCHILDS
Lots and lots of food for thought....

reply to post by godless

In their real lives they were still nobodies but the church provided a "Dungeons-and-Dragons"-like fantasy environment where they were empowered. In church they were no longer misfits but champions of the Most High, and righteous, oh so righteous, even while they were screwing the pastor's wife!

lmao, i think you are on to something, brilliant angle. I have observed some of the same strange phenomenon/behavior, a sort of twisted form of compensation riddled with hypocracies.

So, if you're wondering why these sadly twisted creatures are now trying to screw you over and insert themselves and their "divine" authority into your life, it's because there also exists a different creature in their fantasy playland. There are wolves disguised as sheep that traverse their mythic landscape. ... The recently reviled Pat Robertson would be an excellent example of the kind of creature I speak of.

Ted Haggard, Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart also come to mind.
______________________________

In sum, a stellar post.
Thank you for sharing your odyssey/exposé of the crown of thorns.

You reminded me of two quotes by Denis Diderot en.wikiquote.org...

"Disturbances in society are never more fearful than when those who are stirring up the trouble can use the pretext of religion to mask their true designs."

"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."

[edit on 20-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

Originally posted by ThePublicSpirit
...I cannot count the times that I have seen people who don't believe in God, call upon him when they reach the bottom of the barrel. ... the most ardent Bible-smashers fall to their knees, look around, make sure nobody sees, and begin to pray. It never fails.

You remind me of the saying; "there are no atheists in foxholes". Which i agree is a natural response in an extremely stressful situation. Though there are always exceptions to the rule. The Freedom From Religion Foundation erected a monument in memory of members of the military who would be classified as such. ffrf.org...

As for the claim that religion has inspired/encouraged a lot of good in the world, i would have to agree that the reward of heaven and the punishment of hell can be great motivating forces. Though i would also argue that religion has caused more bad then good, when you add up the lives that have been sacrificed and adversely effected due to the insanity it has promoted throughout the ages and still continues to promote to this day.

[edit on 21-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

reply to post by The Blind Eye


Seems to me there's a bigger problem with people making mountains out of mole hills. Some people just can't go without an enemy. So they make
one of somebody. Not to worry though, these human beings you complain
about have a book. In that book there are prophecies. In those prophecies
is your wish.
Someday by whatever means, most likely execution. No matter how it is
done really. I believe you will have your wish. In fact I have staked my life on it. I hope it comes in your time, that you may rejoice and if it does I ask only that you remember that I told you so. I do believe you will have your perfect world. Live it up!
I may not have lived a perfect life for Jesus Christ but if it comes down to
it I will not deny him.
I know I'm going to heaven because they wouldn't be able to stand me
in hell. I would drive everyone nuts down there, wondering," how can he still love Christ after he has condemned him down here with us".
"I don't know how are we ever going to get him to stop saying his name"
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!


A horse of a different color right here .

[edit on 21-1-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by The Blind Eye

Originally posted by ThePublicSpirit
...I cannot count the times that I have seen people who don't believe in God, call upon him when they reach the bottom of the barrel. ... the most ardent Bible-smashers fall to their knees, look around, make sure nobody sees, and begin to pray. It never fails.

You remind me of the saying; "there are no atheists in foxholes". Which i agree is a natural response in an extremely stressful situation. Though there are always exceptions to the rule. The Freedom From Religion Foundation erected a monument in memory of members of the military who would be classified as such. ffrf.org...

As for the claim that religion has inspired/encouraged a lot of good in the world, i would have to agree that the reward of heaven and the punishment of hell can be great motivating forces. Though i would also argue that religion has caused more bad then good, when you add up the lives that have been sacrificed and adversely effected due to the insanity it has promoted throughout the ages and still continues to promote to this day.

[edit on 21-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

I approach this argument in a rather unconventional manner. Always have.
At a certain point, I gave up on trying to find the "Ultimate Answers". Especially to religious and spiritual questions.
I look at our race trying to find those answers, the way I look at a cat trying to figure out why it can't get through the invisible thing between it an the birds on a tree. (Which we call "glass", obviously)
Maybe we just can't understand certain things. "Can't" for whatever reason.
And, maybe religion is some sort of natural response inside of each human being, used when all reserves of energy, or "will" have left us.
In fact, it might be our instinctive way of touching upon our Quantum Universe. Who knows?
And, maybe it is used incorrectly some times, the way other aspects of the human existence are misused.
But, maybe, for now, it is important that we do not crush it, and we actually try to understand it.

Um... you probably didn't expect a "Christian" to say that stuff.

[edit on 21/1/10 by ThePublicSpirit]

Originally posted by ThePublicSpirit
Um... you probably didn't expect a "Christian" to say that stuff.

Someone with your perspective would be most likely written off as a "watered down christian" by a fundamentalist. To me you make sense, and i think you have the right approach to religion, in that you don't take it literally like a fundamentalist would but instead see it more as a tool box of metaphors, from which you can pick and choose which approaches to life, work best for you. Leaving room for one to think for one self versus following a script to the letter, where there is no room to think for one self.

For the record, i'm an atheist on a bad day, an agnostic on an average day and a universalist/unitarian on a good day. For me religions are man made stories written in an attempt to understand what was once unknown and sculpted by powers that be, to control the masses... the positives that can be gleamed from such 'holy' texts become clear when we find the common thread of 'universal truths' that run through them all, versus where they are in disagreement we can disregard such as rubbish... the rubbish we wage wars over and exploit others through... but for the fundaMENTAList there is no ability/opportunity to discern between the good and bad ideas, and therefore twist and bend the world to reflect the contradictions they believe to be perfection, as prescribed by god.

[edit on 21-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

If you don't take the Bible literally, every word, then it is a useless book. If you never truely investigate the beginnings of this world and the prophecies that have already come true, but take the information "disproving" the word of God by third hand knowledge, then you will remain willfully ignorant. Cast your doubts and mock God all you want, he still loves you and even after you realize that you have just spent years spouting random, hateful, false information; He will still love you and forgive you in this life. But by then your pride will have grown and you'll have to deal with all the statements that hurt God and chased others away from his free gift of salvation. Someday you will come face to face with that pride, stop feeding it now, let it die, start living a fuller self-sacrificing life.

And I noticed that a lot of comments that hate christianity seem to focus on self. That is exactly whats wrong with the world today.

[edit on 21-1-2010 by Bilw85]

To godless:

Thanks for sharing! It really reinforces the idea I had that once people see something they can exploit, even in the noblest of ideas, they will throw conviction out the window and just go for it. For them, hell just doesn't exist

Blind eye:

SUPERB quote:

"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."

Notice though that it doesn't involve religion as an idea, just those practicing (and profiting from) it! I tend to agree with you, I too am an atheist on a bad day...etc.

What "bugs" me the most is the fundamentalist "math". On one hand, God gave us all free will, no? On the other hand, hellfire awaits those that excercise their free will and, without harming others, just don't follow the "path" predetermined for them. What kind of "math" is this I cannot fathom (divine math, the mentalist would say - who told him that?) and what I cannot fathom I reject (FLAWWW, I'll burn in hell, I know! At least I will have the largest company in there and not worry about catching a cold ).

What also bugs me, big time, is those followers of the God of Love and Forgiveness who preach and practice NOTHING but hate towards their fellow men and women. See ya in hell mates, there is room there for all of ya

Closing, allow me to contribute a bit of a musical "tone" in the discussion (I believe you will recognize some names in there!):

Believe in me - send us money
Died on the cross and that ain't funny
But my so called friends are making me a joke
They missed out what i said like I never spoke
They choose what they wanna hear - they don't tell a lie
They just leave out the truth as they're watching you die
They're saving your souls by taking your money
Flies round #, bees around honey


Holy Smoke, Holy Smoke, plenty bad preachers for
The devil to stoke
Feed 'em in feet first this is no joke
This is thirsty work making Holy Smoke yeah
Making holy smoke

Jimmy Reptile and all his friends
Say they gonna be with you at the end
Burning records burning books
Holy soldiers Nazi looks
Crocodile smiles just wait a while
Till the TV Queen gets her make-up clean
I've lived in filth I've lived in sin
And I still smell cleaner than the # you're in


Holy Smoke
Smells good

They ain't religious but they ain't no fools
When Noah built his Cadillac it was cool
Two by two they're still going down
And the satellite circus just left town
I think they're strange and when they're dead
They can have a Lincoln for their bed
Friend of the President trick of the tail
Now they ain't got a prayer 100 years in jail

[edit on 21-1-2010 by Maegnas]

Originally posted by Maegnas
What "bugs" me the most is the fundamentalist "math".

Another equation that doesn't add up...
Gandhi goes to hell and Dahmer goes to heaven.

Two years after Jeffery Dahmer was convicted of killing 15 men and boys, he was baptized by Rev Roy Ratcliff... essentially given a free pass to be ushered through the pearly gates and then you have someone like Mahatma Gandhi who was very christ-like throughout his life, in the end sentenced to hell for not believing the story that "jesus died for his sins".

To add insult to injury over this twisted logic... form of demented divine justice, Gandhi once said "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ...speaking such a sharp truth, meriting an eternity in hell.

This is fundaMENTAList ideology at it's best and... as well truly mental.

Every so often you come across some biblical rant here on ATS. There is a common lingo of catch phrases and techniques to quoting scripture that defy logic... and all i can do is laugh in disbelief that such people exist. It's as if they had some kind of mental disability parading around with confidence and venom, yet we never question the sanity of these people, just write them off as religious. Sometimes for a good laugh i'll check out the latest record at Fundies Say the Darnest Things

FSTDT An archive of the most hilarious, bizarre, ignorant, bigoted, and terrifying quotes from fundies all over the internet! The FSTDT archive is the largest collection of fundie quotes on the planet.

[edit on 28-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

My FUNdamentalist friend 100Grand turned me on to a really scary fundaMENTAList i was not aware of, Hal Lindsey... it wound be interesting to hear what others think of this man's perspective. For me, i am amazed at how much his christian-zionist filter distorts reality.

www.hallindsey.com...

You might like this one
You are not special, you will die here too

reply to post by The Blind Eye


How about this video
prophecyinthenews.com...
click on thursdays webcast

reply to post by 100Grand

He's very entertaining, i'll give him the FUNdamentalist stamp of approval.

Though very sad that so many people take his misguided 'research' seriously. We're talking about a book that consists of sixty-six fairy tales written by fourty authors in three different languages, on three different continents, over approximately 1600 years. Much of what is claimed as prophetic is merely a record of what had already pasted.

Besides... if you believe that god gave us free will, if prophecy is true how can their be free will. True prophecy means the future is predetermined and therefore freewill is not an option.

reply to post by The Blind Eye


The fact that there are 40 authors, from different parts of the world and lived hundreds of years apart, 66 books and in different languages, yet all share the SAME theme, is that not enough proof that God wrote the Bible through them?

reply to post by 100Grand


"SAME theme" ? you mean like a genre... drama, adventure, thriller, comedy... seems to be a mix of them all... please elaborate.

reply to post by The Blind Eye


Well God's MAIN theme, starting in Genesis and running all the way to Revelation, is to unite all the people of every nation, race, and tongue, in his kingdom forever.
The you have hundreds of times through out the the bible saying the ONLY way to salvation is through Jesus Christ:

[Admit that you are forever separated from God by sin.
Believe that Jesus came and died on the cross for you so that you can live forever.
Confess (admit) your sin verbally before God and ask His forgiveness.]
(You have no idea what kind of feeling you are missing out on, to know that no matter what, Jesus Loves us and he will never turn his back on those who put their faith in him.) If I would never have felt the overwhelming sensation of the holy spirit come into my heart when I confessed my sins to God, I would totally be agreeing with you 100%.

Not to mention Love is a huge theme in the Bible. Jesus basically said Love everyone, even if you know of someone who is GOING to betray you.

Lets just hypothetically say there was a God, what is it about the idea that you don't like? Do you not want there to be a God? Does the idea scare you?
There is no man God will not forgive as long they put their faith in him. He is an amazing, Loving, Just God.

Originally posted by 100Grand
(You have no idea what kind of feeling you are missing out on, to know that no matter what, Jesus Loves us and he will never turn his back on those who put their faith in him.) If I would never have felt the overwhelming sensation of the holy spirit come into my heart when I confessed my sins to God, I would totally be agreeing with you 100%.

The euphoric feeling/experience you are having, is no different then falling in-love with someone. Since the idea/object/person you are in-love with will always stay the same and never change, you can maintain this feeling of euphoria as long as you maintain the imaginary perfect relationship in your head, by opening the bible every chance you get. Like a drug, keep your intake regular and you can maintain the high.

Lets just hypothetically say there was a God, what is it about the idea that you don't like?

If there is a god... s/he is a lazy twisted hypocritical judgmental prick. The idea of god that i don't like, is that religion shuts people's critical thinking skills off... as a result we had bush & company for two terms and now palin waiting in the wings for another run. This is the type of leadership that has lead us in all the wrong directions.

You assessment of god is very cherry picked because your mind is clouded with love... and therefore are more interested in maintaining your high then in pursuing the the truth in our sober reality.