criss angel discussion...

“This year on Mindfreak I have an episode titled “Skeptic” and I am inviting all those people who don’t “believe” to come play with me and see there is no trick photography. It will certainly change their point of view—and my life; my career is on the line. When they also come to see Believe they will see everything live right before their eyes, and that will end their skepticism.”

We'll see. I'd really have to see these things live in person, and be chosen as the random spectator to be convinced though. I might buy he doesn't use camera tricks, but I still think some of the spectators aren't random ...

On levitation in the Cirque show

”Just wait till you see the levitation. Our acts of levitation are so incredible even other magicians won’t believe what we are doing. I will go right out into the audience and levitate somebody right out of their seat!”

Again, how would anyone know that the chosen person is random?

Source


Implosion

“I always wanted to do this kind of thing live so I can prove for once and for all to the skeptics that what you see is what you get. It’s interesting to say the least, but the cement blocks and implosion should ramp up the theater of it all. You will see me live on the balcony. This time there will not be a cover on me ..."

Source

I'm looking forward to this show, it being live and him not being covered by a blanket should be impressive anyways.

[edit on 28-7-2008 by violet]

i just watched the ` lake mead ` stunt - and FOOK i want 7 minuites of my life back

it was dire - the same old UTTER TWADDLE

edits galore - cuts where the audience suddenly shift

and the killer - an obvious support on cam

who the hell edits this - a blind retard ????????????????

truely pathetic

reply to post by violet


if he wants REAL skeptics

why does he not invite people like randi ????????????????

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
who the hell edits this - a blind retard ????????????????

I think he edits his shows, or at least part of the editing.

In the other one when he got hit by the truck, there's tinted windows, and it stopped funny, real close to the side of the DARK tunnel. It made it too obvious it was never hitting him and he's already moved to side to prep, then there's this long pause - where he should have done the camera cut -(while he jumps in passenger side & switches places with the driver), window rolls down and he's in front seat ... like magic!

I think Criss doing a LIVE broadcast may be the biggest mistake of his career.

FOX News is running a reveal video. See link at bottom to watch the vid on their site. No longer limited to home-made youtube 'reveal' vids.
...............

Did any of you watch the Live building Implosion escape last night on MF?

Possibly the rehearsed escape plan was aborted and he had to go with a contingency plan to escape. He admitted to one reporter shortly after the stunt, that he did have a contingency plan, he'd be stupid not to, and other reports he coyly said "I flipped it on you didn't I ?"

It seems he failed at escaping using the methods he said he would. He was handcuffed to the balcony railing in the building, that was real, but when he couldn't pick the lock to get in the hotel room door, he had to kick in the glass window. I think at that point he realised he'd wasted too much time picking the lock (and why waste precious time picking at the handcuff still on his wrist?), and there was no way he would then be able to pick the remaining locks to flee the buliding through the roof hatch to the awaiting helicopter - that had to leave 30 seconds before the explosion.

Live cams showed him picking at the other locks, and making it to the final roof lock, as the clock ticked down to zero, the helicopter had already left. You could hear the building exploding on the floors below him, with him still working at this lock. These cams showed he was still in the building as it came down, making it impossible for him to have survived. A short time after, he emerged from the rubble, covered in dust and appearing dazed and shaken.

Most are now speculating these cams weren't 'live" but pre-taped and that they were only live up until he broke through the glass. That he got out some other way. FOX shows a person running away from the building, dressed like Criss.

A few also speculate he really did magically survive this implosion.

This was supposed to be him showing he could escape live in front of a worldwide audience. He did escape in the alotted time, so in that he was successful. He deserves credit for that, it was indeed very dangerous.

This was also supposed to show once and for all, he does not use camera tricks, to end the skepticism, but these cams show otherwise. Instead of ending this skepticism, he has only fuelled the fire even more.

Or was it a plan to do this from the start, and this was his grandest illusion yet?

Tim Vincent, the Host from the show, assured reporters those cams were live and not pre-taped.

I think this show was one of his best, it had all the suspense and drama, but the ending left so many questions as to what went wrong, if things had gone wrong, and how could he have pulled that off IF these cams were live feeds.
..............

SkyFOX has their own footage included on their site analyzing the escape, and how they think he got out and suggesting the cams weren't live. FOX says they were told by A&E not to shoot from certain angles, but they did and used a zoom cam.

WARNING: Spoiler. Don't watch if you want to believe.
FOX News

EDIT to add:

I think he planned to to have it appear he did 'real' magic, because he pre-taped his escape and lock-picking. Maybe he thought people would really be convinced he teleported magically, and he'd get away with it, trusting FOX would follow instructions not to shoot those scenes.

Video of his reaction after the stunt, has that host too saying the cams were live ...

Fox 13

[edit on 31-7-2008 by violet]

There was a chat awhile ago on the MindFreak forums I think, talking about a car running off a cliff stunt that Criss invited the "chosen", his die hard fans to witness. The stunt made it look like Criss had a malfunction during the stunt and actually went over the cliff, with his staff acting hysterical afterwards. This truly upset the chosen who wanted answers on Criss's condition, which no one would give them. Finally when they were back in Vegas they saw Criss out partying like nothing happened. When the chosen confronted Criss about it, he was kinda ashamed that he pulled such a stunt on his die hard fans. Anything for rating, I guess.

I still think his Vegas show will be one of the best out there. As long as you keep your perspective.

reply to post by pavil

I did think he might do this again, and play up he died.

Did you watch his reaction video in my post above? He seems to feel ok with how things turned out last night, but he may not have seen the Fox expose and negative press. Even Fox said they couldn't confirm it was him running from the building. Not that it matters, because he obviously had to get out of there asap.

I hope I was fair with my post above. It's not my intent to trash the guy. I just want to help keep things clear and in perspective as to those who have tried to use him as their posterboy of 'magicalness' for the wrong reasons. It's just a personal reason for me anyways. Even though he acts a bit overboard with his ego, I do think he has a good heart, regardless of what others may think. I'd love to see his Cirque show.

reply to post by violet


David Copperfield did the same trick with an imploding building a while back. I lost interest in the show as it seemed to be one giant ego fest for Mr Angel. I want to see illusions, not people telling me how incredible Mr Angel and his tricks are.

I can see how he hopes to get away with using and consequently being questioned about the pre-taped footage of his escape. I think he really had planned and rehearsed, with the helicopter etc, to escape as promised. But he had plan B, if he knew he wasn't going to make it out that way. Plan B had the hurricane-proof glass replaced with thin glass, and he used a pre-positioned quick escape route. They then have to switch over to the taped footage of him not making it out in time, adding to the drama. Then he'll say this pre-taped footage was "the illusion" that viewers thought he was still trying to escape - because he "likes to blur the lines between reality and illusion". That's alright and whatever, I'm not shocked or surprised it turned out this way. I do think with that host assuring live cams were used, they thought they could pass it off as real magic, unaware Fox had a tape of a guy exiting the buliding and ending up exactly where they found Angel emerging from the rubble - exposing the blurring of the lines mystery.

Problem is this 'lie' about using live cams when clearly they weren't, isn't going to go away in the eyes of his critics, and from what I've seen with comments and negative press immediately following the escape - including many of his own fans, alot are calling him a faker, and that he was never going to escape via the roof, and the whole thing was a sham. He's attracted more critics, but most likely he's also garnered more viewers, soon to become his new fans ...

I expected he would have more positive press about this stunt. Most of the praise for it, is coming from Clearwater officials who got alot of free advertising for tourism.

According to A&E the show had 2.2 million viewers, and the beach was packed with 25, 000 onlookers, many just there to see a building come down.

[edit on 1-8-2008 by violet]

So the Lake Mead water walk was all tricked editing and paid witnesses...right? Still waiting for ONE paid liar to come forward..but they never do. Criss showed the camera angles and the witness, the girl, showed that there was ZERO under him and no props. The Deniers will NEVER accept that fact that Criss alone can do these things.

Please tell us WHy...WHY...WHy on Gods green earth no one ELSE is making money simply tricking film and paying off totally loyal witnesses? Do you skeptics really believe that all these people are paid and silent forever? Why do you believe that when no proof exists? Why do you believe it despite no proof at all of that happening?

Criss invited three total skeptics...worse than you, if that is possible, to Vegas and showed them all that there was no way possible for him to stage the event...and they all agreed at the end it was real. Why do YOU skeptics here deny the truth and reality so stubbornly when you have NOTHING but this line: " It's all illusion, dude!!".? Thats all you have: NO proof...NO..NOT ONE witness alleging a payoff....not one bit of proof that EDITING is anything other than simply arranging a show for time...there has never been ANY proof at all that any fake film has been used to deceive...THAT is the key: NO deception with film EVER proven and NOT ONE iumitator, ever.

How come? Not ONE other person can do what Criss does? Why is that? No one else like fame and money? Or are they all so nice they want Criss to stay at the top of the heap year after year? You amaze me with the thickness of your intellects when you cannot discern realioty when it ois staring you in the face: Criss Angel CAN manipulate the material realm and gravity, etc. That is the ONLY answer to the obvious...wake up sheeple and smell the truth!

I was at the aladen when he walked across the pool. The audience was NOT in on it and there was NOTHING in the pool he was walking on. He also wiggled off his shoes mid way so it wasnt in the shoes and the audience was able to examine his feet. Explane this?

reply to post by eyewitness86


once again EW falls hook line and sinker for the A&E broadcast segment which mr Angel and cohorts have FULL editorial control over

the edits - where the sky changes and the ` audiance ` and craft in the background magically appear , disapear or move betrays that the clip is compsed of many ` takes ` over a long period

notice how the camera never tracks from under water to above his head in one shot - why ? because IMHO they are using multiple systems - a suspension rig to " prove " that there is nothing in the water below him , and polycarbonate pillars to allow shots of him above water

even his entry point into the water betrays site preparation - notice how there is a big wet trail on the beach ? that again IMHO is where the people and plant used to position his props entered and left

even the drastic editing and multiple cuts from one take to the next cannot convince anyone ho watches this with an open mind that mr angel has anything but a large budget and state of the art engineering

at one point you can even see an object directly below him - soppy editing

mr angel states that he wants his work to evoke emotion - is contempt an emmotion ? because thats what he invokes in me

and before EW starts his counter tirade - no i cannot proove any of my above musings - why because i do not have acces to the site during filming , nor access to the unedited takes straight from the cameras

once again we have the obligitory ` pseudo independant witnesses ` - the " bailey family " - where is thier footage - not just the few seconds mr angel edied into his clip but the FULL take from thier camera unedited and uniterupted

EW - you claim " skeptics " were invited - where were they ???????? where can i check out thier testimony and credentials - because all i saw uin the lake mead clip was a gaggle of hysterical groupies

he [ mr angel ] claims to be raising the bar - balderdash he is lowering it every time with this drivel .

mr angel has nver done a truely live preformance in an environment he did not have full control over - infront of independant camera men

the building escape fiasco is evidence of this - fox disobeyed orders and caught him out

why does EW conveniently ignore this and base his entere argument around the lake mead stunt - where mr angel retained total control ?

reply to post by eyewitness86


It is up to Criss to prove to us he's real. Inviting "skeptics" along is not proof, as we have no way of knowing whether they are truly independent observers. We don't have to disprove ANYTHING.

We've already seen clips showing how he performs some of his tricks, and you're expecting me to believe that a man who can walk on water can't make a cart disappear without driving it behind a wall, or can't make folks in a corridor move around.

The reason no-one else is doing stuff like this (well, apart from the other illusionists, who are not on TV) is because it takes money. It needs investment, and people are not going to invest in skills alone, but skills that can be packaged in media-friendly forms, allowing it to be sold, allowing the investors to get their money. Criss is perfect for that, as lots of people like moody-ass goth freaks who can't act.

As long as there are perfectly-logical explanations behind what Criss Angel does, it makes absolutely no sense to leap to the extraordinary conclusion that this talentless asshat has magical superpowers. Any more than saying the Muppets are actual live animals because you never see someone's hand operating them on Sesame Street. Get it?

reply to post by eyewitness86


You do realize Criss Angel is a magician? These are all tricks with a way to do them. Many of the audience is average joes. He may have a couple of his people in the audience, but most of his tricks do not need them. Much of what he and Blaine do have to do with editing. There is no camera trickery or CGI. No magicians use CGI, although many of their tricks deal with optical illusions. Just sit back and enjoy his show as he is an entertainer. His magic is not real and there are ways to how he does it. The fun is not knowing how (those Fox specials do ruin a good trick).

its deff not real.
they look amazing on tv, but if you have ever seen him in real life you know its not real.
he has everyone that does stunts with him sign waver forums, and he pays them to not tell what goes on. its all set up, i mean sure he knows some magic but all that "amazingly impossible" stuff is set up.
hate to say it, but its true

Originally posted by dave420
Any more than saying the Muppets are actual live animals because you never see someone's hand operating them on Sesame Street. Get it?

What!?!?!?!?!

You mean the Muppets aren't real? My whole world is now shaken.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
So the Lake Mead water walk was all tricked editing and paid witnesses...right? Still waiting for ONE paid liar to come forward..but they never do. Criss showed the camera angles and the witness, the girl, showed that there was ZERO under him and no props.

As you recall EW I am one "denier" who doesn't think CA needs to pay. Who cares what the girl did and how she reacted. It's common knowledge that a magician can use a planted spectator. Don't be so naiive. Just beause the water under him was filmed to show no props, does not mean this footage was filmed at that lake walk time. Please refer to the above post on CA pre-taping his "live" implosion escape.

Please tell us WHy...WHY...WHy on Gods green earth no one ELSE is making money simply tricking film and paying off totally loyal witnesses?

I've answered this one too. He likes to control his image and productions. He attempted to hide his age, real name from the internet, until he could no longer do this. He's a control freak. He has very powerful sponsors, Dubai is a the newest investor.

Criss invited three total skeptics...worse than you, if that is possible, to Vegas and showed them all that there was no way possible for him to stage the event...and they all agreed at the end it was real.

Sorry, but I don't buy that all 3 were real skeptics. Think about this for a minute; he wanted to "prove" he had real powers to pick the empty elevator. But, as you know and choose to deny, Angel claims, when not on the MF show that he does not believe anyone has powers, calls them "lying, scamming scumbags, scum of the earth, charlatens, paranormal does not exist, UFO's are not real, psychics are frauds blah, blah, blah", that he fakes it on his shows. We've shown you ample evidence this is the truth. These and other harsh words came right out of his mouth.

It's why FOX news did their reveal video, that you obvioulsy didn't watch. They said CA shouldn't mind being debunked, when he himself debunks others.

Oh his show he is acting, it's entertainment.

When asked if something he did was real or illusion, on something like a levitation, he doesn't want to reveal how he did it, his line is 'I like to blur the lines between reality and illusion". It's his way of avoiding the answer. That's how you can tell it was an illusion.

I will find a quote he made yesterday about this, and post as soon as I find it again.

Here:

Criss Angel Statement About Nail Gun Demonstration
As an artist I try to blur that line between reality and illusion and nail gun was no different. Like many of my demonstrations, was it real or just illusion? Was I hurt or not? These are the questions and conversations I want to provoke as an artist who wants to redefine what the art of magic is and how you will forever experience it.

I want to thank you for your sincere love, concern and support. I love you all.

Loyally yours,
Criss Angel

Source

If you watched this episode, a nail shot through his hand, and he got into an ambulance. If he'd really been hurt, he would have carried on how "real" it was and how he went to the hospital. It would have been in the news he was injured, as other real injuries in the past have ben reported.

[edit on 9-8-2008 by violet]

Originally posted by eyewitness86
....not one bit of proof that EDITING is anything other than simply arranging a show for time...there has never been ANY proof at all that any fake film has been used to deceive...THAT is the key: NO deception with film EVER proven and NOT ONE iumitator, ever.

No fake film?
No proof?
It's been proven on live television that he pre-taped the implosion escape. He said it was live. Lies and deception right there. Not that it really matters, because the majority of us can figure out it was an illusion.

Your always demanding proof, that we keep giving you, yet you continue to ignore it.

You have no proof of anything you say. All you prove is you're very easily fooled and embarassing yourself. I could understand if you were not informed of these decepetions, or if you were a 14 yr old schoolgirl with a crush. Some do watch his show, and not learn about how he's faking it, but you read this thread, and the information never sinks in.

criss angel slept with madonna! i heard that and im SURE its true

I've only read the last couple of pages... but... are you guys actually debating if Criss Angel does real magick or not? That's ridiculous... the guy himself says all the time that he just does magic, not MAGICK. In fact, he's a total skeptic... on that show (forgot the name) where he was a judge for people doing illusions, one candidate claimed he could actually read minds or some such. Criss Angel totally freaked out and cussed out the guy, saying that there were NO proof whatsoever that something like mind reading or paranormal things exist, and basically challenged the guy to prove it to him. Angel is a debunker, just like James Randi. Why in the world would anyone think that he does REAL magick?