Monsanto could be the end of all of us

This thread was started in response to some comments made in a unrelated thread, found here

In response to the comments of cool hand luke, in order:

GM crops are one of the most rigorously tested products on this planet. By the way, how much of the "organic" foods market is tested? As far as effects on humans go, well you have probably been eating it for the last fifteen years. Are you growing a third ear yet?

Since they are so rigorously tested, you shouldnt have a problem posting links to the studies showing 2, 5, and 10 year tests on the effects of GM Foods on humans right?

I am one of those oddballs who grew up on a farm, knowns a little something about farming, and every week I acquire my fresh produce from farmers I know, and without any shadow of a doubt, do NOT use any Monsanto seeds, nor herbicides/pesticides.

Really? You know that before any of their seeds go on the market they are vigorously tested by a vast amount of private and public organizations. The question I ask you, what results have you read about Round up ready tomato seeds that are a cause for concern?

Again, where can one find this vast amount of studies?

Aside from the RRT's, why did Monsanto sue to prevent organic dairy farmers from labeling their milk RBGH-Free? If their synthetic version of it (Posilac) was such a great, harmless product, why wouldnt they be proud to say "Hey, this milk comes from cows injected from our own growth hormone, drink up!"?

I'll answer for you: Perhaps because they know the product is harmful enough that it's been banned in several countries whose governments arent owned lock, stock, and barrel by Monsanto.

Fox News even killed a story on Posilac, hmmm I wonder why...?

You claim GM crops are harmless, perhaps you could refute each one of these, maybe with some more outstanding literature from Monsanto itself:

An independent study commissioned by the Austrian Ministry of Health has found significant infertility effects from mice fed genetically modified (GM) corn. Monsanto, which has a near-world monopoly on all agricultural seeds tried to, not only stop the study from the beginning, but then tried to block the results from being published.

In one study design where mice were continuously breeding. Mice fed on GM corn had no litters or produced less offspring after the third or fourth litters, than those fed on conventional corn. The differences were statistically significant.

Source

Rats fed genetically engineered Calgene Flavr-Savr tomatoes (developed to look fresh for weeks) for 28 days got bleeding stomachs (stomach lesions) and seven died and were replaced in the study.

Rats fed Monsanto 863 Bt corn for 90 days developed multiple reactions typically found in response to allergies, infections, toxins, diseases like cancer, anemia and blood pressure problems. Their blood cells, livers and kidneys showed significant changes indicative of disease.

Mice fed either GM potatoes engineered to produce Bt- toxin or natural potatoes containing the toxin had intestinal damage. Both varieties created abnormal and excessive cell growth in the lower intestine. The equivalent human damage might cause incontinence or flu-like symptoms and could be pre-cancerous. The study disproved the contention that digestion destroys Bt-toxin and is not biologically active in mammals.

Source

The often-heard statement that GM crops are just another cultivar is simply untrue. No viral, bacterial or mammalian DNA found in present day GM crops resulting from the process of genetic transformation could have been introduced into the plant genome by natural means or traditional cross-breeding.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by Government Cheese]

How much evidence do you need that Monsanto is not the fine, upstanding, "cares about people" company you make it out to be?

Obama appoints Monsanto shill Tom Vilsack to USDA chief

www.youtube.com...

the best news i have read lately is that some countries will not take American food aid for there starving people because it is genetically modified.
www.foxnews.com...
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.twnside.org.sg...
www.freerepublic.com...
www.independent.co.uk...
www.commondreams.org...

And if you think i like Monsanto you would be wrong i am a Agent Orange vet and think that they should be put out of business today.

But with Obama appoints Monsanto shill Tom Vilsack to USDA chief i supect that obama will be worse then bush in giving agent orange vets the support they need.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by ANNED]

I sure wish somebody would put them out of business.They are one of the biggest evils on the planet.
The fact Obama made that Monsanto dude his USDA is just another sign that obama is a greaseball.Not a very ethical call on his part.
My view on monsanto is that they are willing to kill off the human race to make a few bucks and be rich.If they had their way there would be no such thing as real food...we would all be eating their genetic cocktails.The funny thing is my buddy was telling me how they won't serve their employees the food they make.Hmmmmm
It boggles my mind how they have lasted this long without someone wiping them off the face of the planet.
This is a huuuuuuge problem and more people need to be aware.

Man, Obama is already starting to let me down and he has yet to even take office. I mean, believe me, McCain would have been no better and most likely a lot worse. Without a doubt the only man who could have made any difference was Ron Paul, however, most of us knew he had no chance of winning because of this. I don't know what we can do. I guess I would say that I will have to be doing my shopping at the local farmers market but I have no idea if this will be truly viable or beneficial.

Here are some interesting articles you guys want to read!

Monsanto Buys ‘Terminator’ Seeds Company

The GM genocide: Thousands of Indian farmers are committing suicide after using genetically modified crops


Seeds of Destruction: The Hidden Agenda of Genetic Manipulation

"Doomsday Seed Vault" in the Arctic


This is the very future of the planet these guys are fiddling with. Their goal is to control all the food supply in the world no matter what. This has to be stopped ASAP if we want a future for our children.

And soon enough they will hold patents on every seed bearing edible plant on this planet. Whoever controls the food controls the world. Period. Anyone who DOUBTS their true intentions need only follow the money. They will sacrifice millions of lives in order to further their own bottom line. They are criminals behind what this administration is guilty of.

Just do some homework. That is to those who believe that they are providing a service to this planet with their poisons. If they were so good then why have they been sued so often and had so many products banned? We had to study these guys for our MBA. It opened my eyes to the unfortunate world of corporate profiteering. They don't care about you or I. They care soley about making money and gaining power and control.

Within a few years time they will control all grown food on this planet and will have the power to sue any farmer that doesn't buy their seeds because their plants are cross breeding with the farmers plants. Their plants DNA is showing up in native plants thus making it THEIR plants. What a freaking farse.

This corporation is absolutely criminal, sneaky, underhanded and without honor or integrity - not that most corporations care about those ideals.

In the meantime, eat only non-GM foods as much as possible.

If at all possible, grow your own garden. If you don't have the space, find someone that does and see if you can "co-op" it. Also, there is a company that sells heirloom non GMO seeds! Check em out! I fully plan on buying a couple packages and getting my hands dirty this spring!!!

They have all kinds of pesticide solutions that are non-toxic as well.

www.heirloomseeds.com...

reply to post by Government Cheese


I'm still astonished at peoples paranoia to believe these baseless claims. I went to the epa.gov website and used their search function and use genetically modified crops as my query and got 885 hits. Check it out for yourself.

I'd also suggest you go to Monsanto's website and take a look at how many studies have been done. Found here. It has a list of studies done on all their products. Each link is to a pdf (example of just one of the linkshere for bt corn) with a list of these studies for each of their products. (there are alot) They site each study by name author and pages relevant to that particular product.

Well you asked for the names of studies and voila there they are. That took me all of five minutes to find. If I would've spent a few more I could find you many studies showing how dangerous some of these "organic" farming practices are.

reply to post by Cool Hand Luke


Don't Forget about GURT & VGURT (terminator seeds) which I believe is / will become the "humanitarian crime" of this century.


Just for information:
"GURT is a genetically engineered technique whereby farmers would be forced to turn to their seed supplier each harvest to get new seeds. The seeds would only produce one harvest. After that the seeds from that harvest would commit ‘suicide’ and be unusable. There has been much hue and cry, correctly so, that this process, patented ‘suicide’ seeds, officially termed GURTs (Genetic Use Restriction Technologies), is a threat to poor farmers in developing countries like India or Brazil, who traditionally save their own seeds for the next planting. In fact, GURTs, more popularly referred to as Terminator seeds for the brutal manner in which they kill off plant reproduction possibilities, is a threat to the food security as well of North America, Western Europe, Japan and anywhere Monsanto and its elite cartel of GMO agribusiness partners enters a market.” www.globalresearch.ca...

There are conceptually two types of GURT.

1. v-GURT.
This type of GURT produces sterile seeds meaning that a farmer that had purchased seeds containing v-GURT technology could not save the seed from this crop for future planting. This would not have an immediate impact on the large number of farmers who use hybrid seeds, as they do not produce their own planting seeds, & instead buy specialized hybrid seeds from seed production companies. The technology is restricted at the plant variety level - hence the term v-GURT. Manufacturers of genetically enhanced crops would use this technology to protect their products from unauthorised use.
2. t-GURT.
A second type of GURT modifies a crop in such a way that the genetic enhancement engineered into the crop does not function until the crop plant is treated with a chemical that is sold by the biotechnology company. Farmers can save seeds for use each year. However, they do not get to use the enhanced trait in the crop unless they purchase the activator compound. The technology is restricted at the trait level - hence the term t-GURT.
www.globalresearch.ca...

Monsanto Sues Midwest Farmers for Saving Soybean Seeds
www.organicconsumers.org...

www.organicconsumers.org...

Monsanto is very determined to defend its position that farmers must buy new seed of its patented genetically modified crops each year. Monsanto has built a whole department to enforce its seed patents and licensing agreements. It has 75 employees and an annual budget of $10 million.
An estimated 400 farmers have received threats of legal action from Monsanto over alleged patent infringement. While Canadian farmers will be familiar with the trials and tribulations of Percy Schmeiser, names like Homan McFarling and Nelson Farms should resonate with American producers. Few of these cases ever get to court because most farmers look at the odds of outlasting Monsanto and simply give in. A clause in Monsanto's licensing agreement allows Monsanto to take such cases in the U.S. before courts in Missouri. This can add a huge amount to the legal bills of farmers who might be thousands of miles away. www.keepmainefree.org...

In order to help police these "seed pirates," Monsanto sends inspectors out into the fields to spy on farmers, and encourages farmers to spy on each other, appealing to their competitive Achilles heels in a make-or-break business.

Monsanto also breeds into its seeds bacteria that can only be defeated by Monsanto's own herbicides. No one knows what the long-term effects of such genetic tampering may be, but concerns are being raised that these will lead to the evolution of pesticide-resistant "super-bugs," in much the same manner that we are now vulnerable to antibiotic-resistant bacterial infections due to the overuse of antibiotic www.berkshireweb.com...

www.twilightearth.com...

Monsanto Seed Company Sues Farmer After its Seeds Blow Into His Field, Genetically Altering His Crop
This crap is cross-pollinating with "normal" crops... know what happens? Spies come out to farmers fields and if traces of their crap have cross pollinated with your crops... THEY SUE YOU because their "patented technology" has mixed with your crop!

Monsanto seeds cross pollinated with the farmers crops, producing plants that carry genes that are patented. Mansanto maintains that regardless of what happened, it now owns the farmers crops, and if the farmer wants to sell those crops, he owes them money. (You getting this? So if /when their crap cross pollinates with your crop, you have to pay them!!)

And you know some sick bastards would love this technology to cross pollinate with ALL food crops and then you can only grow food with that "special" chemical or new seeds controlled by these corporations. God knows what this is going to do to the food supply..... this is a true "crime against humanity"


I look forward to a response.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by infolurker]

Originally posted by infolurker

Don't Forget about GURT & VGURT (terminator seeds) which I believe is / will become the "humanitarian crime" of this century.

So it is a belief? Alot of beliefs have been proven demonstratably false. What you believe is nothing but propaganda fed by people, who if you believe, want to starve the world. Take your "the farmer suing monsanto for spreading seed onto his land" case. Have you ever tried to find out why the court ruled why it did? Of course not, because you don't care about truth, you care about feeding your own "businesses are evil" idealogy. Just in case you want to find out why the court favored monsanto in that case is because the Gentleman in this case was found to use seeds from his neighbors that he did not pay for. This particular gentleman had been guilty many times before this case of using another farmers seed that he did not pay for. I will not like to the articles for you because you would just claim a bias anyway.

I would urge before you make your assertions that you would look at both sides of the story.

If the world would switch back completely to the kind of farming the OP is suggesting, a good portion more of the world would be starving and sick from having to use more pesticides. Along with that people would be paying alot more for food. In which case the poor wouldn't be able to afford food. Which is why I started a thread on subsidies because all they do is remove competition from countries that would benefit from competition.




[edit on 23-12-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

Are you the Monsanto PR guy? Ok... since were distracted by belief now, Do you believe this are good idea?

Terminator seeds:

In the list of dubious technologies, the Terminator would score 9 or a perfect 10. Also called Genetic Use Restriction Technology (GURT), the Terminator has a simple objective: create seeds that commit suicide after one generation. In effect, farmers who plant these seeds would get a `normal' harvest, but if they tried replanting seeds from this harvest, they would get a dead crop. In the second-generation seeds, a genetic process triggered by the technology, which is inserted into the first generation seeds, would render them sterile.

(OK .... so... Monsanto can control pollination? This isn't going to cross pollinate with the farmers crop next door and render his seeds sterile??)

The potential impact of cross-pollination with a suicide crop has provoked considerable opposition to Terminator Technology. Brazil & India have already passed laws banning it & Canada is on the way.

(Do you think Terminator Technology is a good idea?)

But Anyway: Yes... He won the last case!

www.newswire.ca...

Ray Mowling, a vice president for Monsanto Canada in Mississauga, concedes to the Washington Post that some cross-pollination does occur between Monsanto’s genetically modified plants and other plants. Referring to Monsanto’s lawsuit against Percy Schmeiser, a canola farmer accused of illegally growing Monsanto’s Roundup Ready Canola, Mowling “acknowledges the awkwardness of prosecuting farmers who may be inadvertently growing Monsanto seed through cross-pollination or via innocent trades with patent-violating neighbors,”

www.percyschmeiser.com...

Schmeiser pleased with victory over Monsanto
In an out of court settlement finalized on March 19, 2008, Percy Schmeiser has settled his lawsuit with Monsanto. Monsanto has agreed to pay all the clean-up costs of the Roundup Ready canola that contaminated Schmeiser's fields. Also part of the agreement was that there was no gag-order on the settlement and that Monsanto could be sued again if further contamination occurred. Schmeiser believes this precedent setting agreement ensures that farmers will be entitled to reimbursement when their fields become contaminated with unwanted Roundup Ready canola or any other unwanted GMO plants.




[edit on 24-12-2008 by infolurker]

reply to post by Cool Hand Luke

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
reply to post by Government Cheese

 

I'm still astonished at peoples paranoia to believe these baseless claims. I went to the epa.gov website and used their search function and use genetically modified crops as my query and got 885 hits. Check it out for yourself.

I'd also suggest you go to Monsanto's website and take a look at how many studies have been done. Found here. It has a list of studies done on all their products. Each link is to a pdf (example of just one of the linkshere for bt corn) with a list of these studies for each of their products. (there are alot) They site each study by name author and pages relevant to that particular product.

Well you asked for the names of studies and voila there they are. That took me all of five minutes to find. If I would've spent a few more I could find you many studies showing how dangerous some of these "organic" farming practices are.

Yeah, because if their products were bad, they'd totally tell you about it.
[edit on 23-12-2008 by Account]

[edit on 23-12-2008 by Account]

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke



I'd also suggest you go to Monsanto's website and take a look at how many studies have been done. Found here. It has a list of studies done on all their products. Each link is to a pdf (example of just one of the linkshere for bt corn) with a list of these studies for each of their products. (there are alot) They site each study by name author and pages relevant to that particular product.

You're not seriously using Monsanto as a source of proof that GM crops are safe are you?

Please tell me that was just a joke.

Originally posted by infolurker
Are you the Monsanto PR guy? Ok... since were distracted by belief now, Do you believe this are good idea?

No I am not a "Monsanto PR guy", I live in this strange place called reality.

Terminator seeds:

In the list of dubious technologies, the Terminator would score 9 or a perfect 10. Also called Genetic Use Restriction Technology (GURT), the Terminator has a simple objective: create seeds that commit suicide after one generation. In effect, farmers who plant these seeds would get a `normal' harvest, but if they tried replanting seeds from this harvest, they would get a dead crop.

By the way they have never sold "terminator seeds" and don't plan to. But they do have benefits. Farmers rarely grow the same seed year after year anyway. Why not give them the choice?

(OK .... so... Monsanto can control pollination? This isn't going to cross pollinate with the farmers crop next door and render his seeds sterile??)

No evidence of this ever happening and will never happening thanks to the vigorous testing in laboratories.

The potential impact of cross-pollination with a suicide crop has provoked considerable opposition to Terminator Technology. Brazil & India have already passed laws banning it & Canada is on the way.

Complete and utter bs. In fact, because of the benefits of the so called "terminator technology" in future you might see in all these countries. By the way, all the countries you listed all embrace GM crops and their benefits. Your "cross pollination" theory would not be able according to law. We have laws protecting farmers like if such a case were ever to exist.

(Do you think Terminator Technology is a good idea?)

Yes because not many farmers grow the same crop again year after year. In fact a farm growing corn year after year does not typically use the same seed. The look to the market for the best seed for the best price. In other works best bang for their buck. For instance if a seed becomes available that requires 1/3 of water than a traditional seed, a farmer in the southwest would pay a larger up front cost because he knows that irrigation is much more expensive.

Now you have genuine concerns about these seeds spreading beyond where they are grown. I would say to you that these concerns are unfounded because if it were to be the case that lets say, Monsanto's seeds for example, did what you feared, they would not be in business for very long because of lawsuits and affecting private property laws.

It is in these companies best interest to make crops do what they advertise otherwise nobody would buy their seeds for very long.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

reply to post by Government Cheese


Your not seriously using an "organic farming" website to disprove scientific advancement are you? Because they have no interest in bringing down competition right?

By the way, did you read any of the studies that I gave you?



[edit on 24-12-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

Originally posted by Account

Yeah, because if their products were bad, they'd totally tell you about it.

Farmers would tell us about it. Why don't you ask them? I mean if these crops are so terrible, why are these biotech companies growing more and more year after year?

If one of their products turned out to let's say cause cancer, don't you think the scientific field would go on a witch hunt after them? Lawyers? Why would it be in these companies interest to sell a defective product?

(OK .... so... Monsanto can control pollination? This isn't going to cross pollinate with the farmers crop next door and render his seeds sterile??)

""No evidence of this ever happening and will never happening thanks to the vigorous testing in laboratories. ""
(Never say never... and better safe than sorry)

Ray Mowling, a vice president for Monsanto Canada in Mississauga, concedes to the Washington Post that some cross-pollination does occur between Monsanto’s genetically modified plants and other plants. Referring to Monsanto’s lawsuit against Percy Schmeiser, a canola farmer accused of illegally growing Monsanto’s Roundup Ready Canola, Mowling “acknowledges the awkwardness of prosecuting farmers who may be inadvertently growing Monsanto seed through cross-pollination or via innocent trades with patent-violating neighbors,”

MONSANTO ADMITS CROSS-POLLINATION AND HERBICIDE AND INSECTICIDE RESISTANCE
The company's director of biotechnology communications admitted to the UK's Independent on Sunday that 'resistance' can develop. Monsanto has apparently stated its intent not to plant certain genetically modified crops where there are wild relatives. The UK government's wildlife advisor, English Nature, criticized the company for inconsistency in the light of its application for commercial cultivation of GM sugarbeet, that does have wild relatives there.
Source: Independent on Sunday, April 25 1999

www.newswire.ca...
www.organicconsumers.org...

Schmeiser pleased with victory over Monsanto In an out of court settlement finalized on March 19, 2008, Percy Schmeiser has settled his lawsuit with Monsanto. Monsanto has agreed to pay all the clean-up costs of the Roundup Ready canola that contaminated Schmeiser's fields. Also part of the agreement was that there was no gag-order on the settlement and that Monsanto could be sued again if further contamination occurred. Schmeiser believes this precedent setting agreement ensures that farmers will be entitled to reimbursement when their fields become contaminated with unwanted Roundup Ready canola or any other unwanted GMO plants.

Our biggest concern is Roundup Ready canola polluting our fields by being blown off neighbors fields and infesting our fields with voluntary plants. Is Monsanto going to compensate farmer in this situation?"

The answer is yes. Schmeiser has just won an important victory over Monsanto in his lawsuit against the company for contaminating his land. In an out of court settlement, Monsanto has agreed to pay all the clean-up costs of HT canola with no gag-order. Schmeiser believes this precedent will ensure farmers are entitled to reimbursement when their field become contaminated

www.i-sis.org.uk...