Isreal: A terror state?

Ok, I've been away for a few months, but after watching the news this morning, I had to speak out. (btw, I'm junglejake, but I've lost my password and the email address that I registered with, so here I am, all new like)

Why does the american media give so much air time to these explicative wacks who keep saying that it's Isreal's fault?

"If Isreal would just stop retaliating against our attacks, there would be peace in the middle east"

"If the jews would stop their occupation of Palestine, there could be peace in the middle east"

"We will not rest until the Jews have been pushed into the ocean"

Huh. Doesn't sound like there's any chance of reasoning with a people who are taught from birth that the Jews are evil, they're the spawn of satan, and they need to be eradicated. When the goal is genocide, there can be no peace. And let's be honest here, the goal IS genocide. THAT'S the thing that has to change for there to be peace.

They want the Jews out of Isreal. Where do they go? And would the hatrid stop if they left? I don't think so...We have, currently, a multitude of people who can't think rationally because they have been ruined by their state sponsored educational systems. How do you have peace between a people and another people who have been taught, until it's not even a consious thought, to hate the first people and want every one of them dead.

What I want here is to know how anyone can justify this defense. Let's face it, there is a war in the middle east, and there will continue to be war until one of the sides wins or the losses become so great that the terrorist cells just disband. I don't think the latter is going to happen.

JJ, I think that you are only seeing one side of this issue. The same can be said of the Israelli people. There is precidents set that a detente can be reached. When Israel stopped harrassing Syria, Hezbollah stopped its attacks on Israel. So for any peace BOTH parties have to cooperate. Will it happen....

I found an interesting article on the subject:

Liberating America From Israel

NOTE: Mr. Paul Findley, who served as a Republican congressman from Illinois for 22 years, is the author of 'They Dare to Speak Out' and a member of the American Educational Trust's Foreign Relations Committee.

by Paul Findley

09/15/2002: Nine-eleven would not have occurred if the U.S. government had refused to help Israel humiliate and destroy Palestinian society. Few express this conclusion publicly, but many believe it is the truth. I believe the catastrophe could have been prevented if any U.S. president during the past 35 years had had the courage and wisdom to suspend all U.S. aid until Israel withdrew from the Arab land seized in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.

The U.S. lobby for Israel is powerful and intimidating, but any determined president-even President Bush this very day-could prevail and win overwhelming public support for the suspension of aid by laying these facts before the American people:

Israel's present government, like its predecessors, is determined to annex the West Bank-biblical Judea and Samaria - so Israel will become Greater Israel. Ultra-Orthodox Jews, who maintain a powerful role in Israeli politics, believe the Jewish Messiah will not come until Greater Israel is a reality. Although a minority in Israel, they are committed, aggressive, and influential. Because of deep religious conviction, they are determined to prevent Palestinians from gaining statehood on any part of the West Bank.

In its violent assaults on Palestinians, Israel uses the pretext of eradicating terrorism, but its forces are actually engaged advancing the territorial expansion just cited. Under the guise of anti-terrorism, Israeli forces treat Palestinians worse than cattle. With due process nowhere to be found, hundreds are detained for long periods and most are tortured. Some are assassinated. Homes, orchards, and business places are destroyed. Entire cities are kept under intermittent curfew, some confinements lasting for weeks. Injured or ill Palestinians needing emergency medical care are routinely held at checkpoints for an hour or more. Many children are undernourished. The West Bank and Gaza have become giant concentration camps. None of this could have occurred without U.S. support. Perhaps Israeli officials believe life will become so unbearable that most Palestinians will eventually leave their ancestral homes.

Once beloved worldwide, the U.S. government finds itself reviled in most countries because it provides unconditional support of Israeli violations of the United Nations Charter, international law, and the precepts of all major religious faiths.

How did the American people get into this fix?

Nine-eleven had its principal origin 35 years ago when Israel's U.S. lobby began its unbroken success in stifling debate about the proper U.S. role in the Arab-Israeli conflict and effectively concealed from public awareness the fact that the U.S. government gives massive uncritical support to Israel.

Thanks to the suffocating influence of Israel's U.S. lobby, open discussion of the Arab-Israeli conflict has been non-existent in our government all these years. I have firsthand knowledge, because I was a member of the House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee in June 1967 when Israeli military forces took control of the Golan Heights, a part of Syria, as well as the Palestinian West Bank and Gaza. I continued as a member for 16 years and to this day maintain a close watch on Congress.

For 35 years, not a word has been expressed in that committee or in either chamber of Congress that deserves to be called debate on Middle East policy. No restrictive or limiting amendments on aid to Israel have been offered for 20 years, and none of the few offered in previous years received more than a handful of votes. On Capitol Hill, criticism of Israel, even in private conversation, is all but forbidden, treated as downright unpatriotic, if not anti-Semitic. The continued absence of free speech was assured when those few who spoke out-Senators Adlai Stevenson and Charles Percy, and Reps. Paul "Pete" McCloskey, Cynthia McKinney, Earl Hilliard, and myself-were defeated at the polls by candidates heavily financed by pro-Israel forces.

As a result, legislation dealing with the Middle East has been heavily biased in favor of Israel and against Palestinians and other Arabs year after year. Home constituencies, misled by news coverage equally lop-sided in Israel's favor, remain largely unaware that Congress behaves as if it were a subcommittee of the Israeli parliament.

However, the bias is widely noted beyond America, where most news media candidly cover Israel's conquest and generally excoriate America's complicity and complacency. When President Bush welcomed Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, sometimes called the Butcher of Beirut, as "my dear friend" and "a man of peace" after Israeli forces, using U.S.-donated arms, completed their devastation of the West Bank last spring, worldwide anger against American policy reached the boiling point.

The fury should surprise no one who reads foreign newspapers or listens to BBC. In several televised statements long before 9/11, Osama bin Laden, believed by U.S. authorities to have masterminded 9/11, cited U.S. complicity in Israel's destruction of Palestinian society as a principal complaint. Prominent foreigners, in and out of government, express their opposition to U.S. policies with unprecedented frequency and severity, especially since Bush announced his determination to make war against Iraq.

The lobby's intimidation remains pervasive. It seems to reach every government center and even houses of worship and revered institutions of higher learning. It is highly effective in silencing the many U.S. Jews who object to the lobby's tactics and Israel's brutality.

Nothing can justify 9/11. Those guilty deserve maximum punishment, but it makes sense for America to examine motivations promptly and as carefully as possible. Terrorism almost always arises from deeply-felt grievances. If they can be eradicated or eased, terrorist passions are certain to subside.

Today, a year after 9/11, President Bush has made no attempt to redress grievances, or even to identify them. In fact, he has made the scene far worse by supporting Israel's religious war against Palestinians, an alliance that has intensified anti-American anger. He seems oblivious to the fact that nearly two billion people worldwide regard the plight of Palestinians as today's most important foreign-policy challenge. No one in authority will admit a calamitous reality that is skillfully shielded from the American people but clearly recognized by most of the world: America suffered 9/11 and its aftermath and may soon be at war with Iraq, mainly because U.S. policy in the Middle East is made in Israel, not in Washington.

Israel is a scofflaw nation and should be treated as such. Instead of helping Sharon intensify Palestinian misery, our president should suspend all aid until Israel ends its occupation of Arab land Israel seized in 1967. The suspension would force Sharon's compliance or lead to his removal from office, as the Israeli electorate will not tolerate a prime minister who is at odds with the White House.

If Bush needs an additional reason for doing the right thing, he can justify the suspension as a matter of military necessity, an essential step in winning international support for his war on terrorism. He can cite a worthy precedent. When President Abraham Lincoln issued the proclamation that freed only the slaves in states that were then in rebellion, he make the restriction because of "military necessity."

If Bush suspends U.S. aid, he will liberate all Americans from long years of bondage to Israel's misdeeds.
www.informationclearinghouse.info...


I totally agree, particularly since I don't believe that the Isrealies are the real biblical Jews.

Why does the american media give so much air time to these explicative wacks who keep saying that it's Isreal's fault?

Because our media is supposed to be "fair" showing all sides a story and argument regardless if it is against what the majority believes in.

another reason would be because the majority of this country is not Jewish or Israeli, so opposing opinions are bound to be heard one way or another.

Ok, granted I may be biased, but I'm just telling it like I see it. Obviously you can't have a war without 2 parites. However, it's the Arabs who are screaming out about the peace process at the same time they blow up civilians, and then they scream out about the attack on their soil. I think it's the hipocracy that really upsets me about this whole thing...

Originally posted by junglejake
Ok, granted I may be biased, but I'm just telling it like I see it. Obviously you can't have a war without 2 parites. However, it's the Arabs who are screaming out about the peace process at the same time they blow up civilians, and then they scream out about the attack on their soil. I think it's the hipocracy that really upsets me about this whole thing...

You obviously didn't read the article I posted. Arabs are screaming peace while the Butcher of Beirut (Sharon) is using helicopter gunships to murder women and children in their ghettoes.

Wouldn't you retaliate if that was your sister or mother?

[Edited on 23-3-2004 by Colonel]

Originally posted by worldwatcher
Why does the american media give so much air time to these explicative wacks who keep saying that it's Isreal's fault?

Because our media is supposed to be "fair" showing all sides a story and argument regardless if it is against what the majority believes in.

another reason would be because the majority of this country is not Jewish or Israeli, so opposing opinions are bound to be heard one way or another.

Ahh, but I was just having this conversation with a co-worker. The media doesn't (that I've seen) really cover the other side of the issue. One of my big problems is that opposing opinions aren't being aired. Just the information which will make the arabs think we are good people is being allowed on the air.

I think i said this before....if the Palestinians had a military force, weapons, tanks etc that could rival or compare to the Israeli military....then there would have been an all-out war a long time ago, which would probably still be ongoing until they completely wipe each other out.

but because they don't they feel that homicide bombings is their only option....
I can't understand the logic completely, but you must agree that these people are awfully desperate to feel that they have no other options besides blowing up themselves.

Colonel: No, I didn't. I was posting when you were posting, and thought I would be #3. I'm about to read it now, and I'm sure I'll have comments!

colonel...good article

jake...what are you talking about??? The American media is obviously pro-Israeli, pro-Bush what channels are you watching?

Colonel, I totally agree with what Findley says. The problem is the golden rule, "Who ever has the gold makes the rules." I am not being stereotypical here but look at the banks, who owns them, who owns the media? I saw in the paper this morning another Arab child, about 4, holding a sub-machine gun at the funeral. I cannot remember ever seeing an Israelli child holding a gun in the media. What is that saying? Only Arab children are raised to be ready to kill?

Someone like to explain this discrepency to me, cause I'm not getting it.

Well, I kinda went away from current events (except for science and the space project (effin' Bush possibly killin' NASA)) and just came back into the fold. It was FoxNews that I was watching where this drivel was being spouted. I think that might have been the most shocking part of it. So I haven't been following the media lately, and it may be this is coming out just because of the hits on Hamas. I dunno. Figured I'd enter it into this forum and hopefully get the full picture. (ATS rocks for this kind of thing!)

Originally posted by intrepid
Colonel, I totally agree with what Findley says. The problem is the golden rule, "Who ever has the gold makes the rules." I am not being stereotypical here but look at the banks, who owns them, who owns the media? I saw in the paper this morning another Arab child, about 4, holding a sub-machine gun at the funeral. I cannot remember ever seeing an Israelli child holding a gun in the media. What is that saying? Only Arab children are raised to be ready to kill?

Someone like to explain this discrepency to me, cause I'm not getting it.

Might doesn't make right.

Seriously, what else are the Palestinean people supposed to do against these thugs. What else are children to do when they see their parents murdered. You tell me.

You'll certainly get input.
Let's see who Israel has screwed with in the last 35 years:
Egypt
Lebanon
Syria
Jordan
Palistine
Libya
and if you believe David Duke America.

Sorry gang if I left someone out but I think that the point is made.

Attack military targets, Colonel. I have no problem with that form of warfare, as long as you attack military, and not the general population, just to create terror.

And intrepid: Yeah, the Jews run the world, we need to take it back from them

Colonel:Seriously, what else are the Palestinean people supposed to do against these thugs. What else are children to do when they see their parents murdered. You tell me.

What I was refering to was the control the Jews have on the international media portraying the Palistinians a people that raise their children to kill Jews while they keep themselves on the downlow.

I am very happy Israel is showing resolve in dealing with Hamas, Islamic Jhihad, and Hezbollah. These groups have stated their sole purpose is the destruction of the state of Israel through killing innocent civilians. Those who agree that that is ok or want to appease these groups are quite deluded and need to do a little more homework. Israel has every right to defend itself from those who wish and plot harm and destruction. In the same right that US has to go after Al Queda and Bin Laden who has stated "it is every good Muslims duty to kill Americans and Israelis". There is no talking to people who are dedicated to your death. There is no partner for peace who is willing to talk it over and cease the violence. Its time for the world to face the truth - world war three has begun. Terrorists are doing what they do best, terrorizing and intimidating other countries to cow tow to their demands out of fear they will be targeted next. For god�s sake, that�s what the attack in Spain was all about. Install fear into Europe, support for the USA, GB, Australia, Israel, = punishment in the form of bombing of innocent cilivilians. Your brothers and sisters.. Hummmmm - I say scr_w them! Israel has done the right thing by killing the evil Sheik Ahmed Yassin leader of Hamas. The left wing media has done a great injustice to the world by painting these people as spiritual leaders instead of mass murderers over the years. A mask that should have been unveiled long ago. Call a spade a spade. We are not that blind. I commend the Israeli security chiefs for acting decisively in the face of world cowardice. Not only have they said they don�t care if the world does not agree, but they have gone public with their own deck of most wanted Islamic fundamentalist leaders targeted for assassination and death. I applaud them for doing what they have too on the front line in the war against terrorism. Now like Al Queda, instead of having 99% of the day to sit back, sip tea, and hash out their next terrorist plot to kill your relatives. They will now have to spend 99% of the day trying to escape being assassinated by the mossad. Whew - getting tough to be a terrorist now and days. Soon they will realize a compromise much be reached and the violence will stop, but not as long a total destruction of the US and Israel are the goals. Until then, unfortunately the people will watch their military leaders die, get replaced, die, and still they live in squaller with no water, power, and food. And for what? Because they can�t understand freedom and the right for others to be different culturally then they are. And that other also claim rights to the same land. So they will all need to figure out how to live there together (independent Palestinian state as proposed in the last 4 rounds of peace talks). Nope not good enough for Hamas - they need all of Israel and the only way to end the bombings is for all Jews to pack it up and leave.. Well - at some point reality must kick in. Pushing the jews back into the red sea or bringing down the US - not gonna happen. Move on to the next best thing. If you can�t or won�t sit down and work out a compromise solution peacefully - prepare to die. It's thier choice and always has been.

Rebel, do you actyally believe what you just posted? If so fine. Withdraw U.S. support and let Israel contol its destiny. It is like a child that pulls a dogs tail then runs behind Mommy for protection. As I recall, there was a viable peace proposal on the table 18 month ago, and who was the one to attack the other first to destroy any possibility of it comming to fruition? Not the Palistinians.

Originally posted by intrepid
You'll certainly get input.
Let's see who Israel has screwed with in the last 35 years:
Egypt
Lebanon
Syria
Jordan
Palistine
Libya
and if you believe David Duke America.

Sorry gang if I left someone out but I think that the point is made.

uhhh...you're going to have to back that up. Oh, and I believe what dreamrebel said, too

O.K. Jake: i-cias.com... , The Palistinian problem is self evident. I'll have to look for the Libiyan info, so give me a few.

I don't know why you would blindly say I believe in "anything" before you checked it out. That is the problem with the public as it is and it is indefencable ,with a tool like the internet at ones disposal, where an individual can gather all the information and make an educated decision on your own instead of believing what you are told.