Religions are just businesses

Religions are practically the same as businesses. I don't mean to offend anyone in this forum so if you are offended i am sorry. I am aware that many people will probably find this content offensive once again I apologise.

Businesses want to make profit every year and if they can make a takeover bid on a rival company they will. Already sounds like religion to me.

Most companies have a president and once again most religions have one "leader". There are many more similarities but you guys can add them as you see fit.

Anyone who disagrees with me your welcome to say whatever you want about this topic. I won't be offended.

Text Black

How true, religions are even tax free down here in Kiwiland, so we have very dubious groups calling themselves a church and so get tax free status.

The faith based belief of most religions is NO DIFFERENT to the ancient religions/beliefs and cults of past peoples and cultures. All were based on a devine being of some sort or other, all based on terrible punishments ETC, if one did not follow that faith/religon/belief/cult.

Relgion etc., is all about the pursuit of POWER pure and simple, and it is the sheep of this world who follow blindly. religion etc was/is used to control the masses, and it was/is done quite effectively, but now more and more people are waking up to the fact, ( IT AINT TRUE).

We were given brains to think for ourselves!!!!THINK

You are not ofending any one you are right religions has become big business in modern times.

Money and control, go hand on hand.

Money and control

Let me guess, and what is mentioned is going to change some time.....when?
"Money and control" have been with Man since the time of "civilization," when Man moved from being hunter-gatherers to farmers and living in towns and cities. That's what? About 6,000+ years.....

And wait....."religion" has been around about how long? Maybe dated to the time when Man was a hunter-gather, before he/she contemplated creating towns and cities?

"Money and control" is a fact of life, and quite frankly, one that people can continue to have issue with, but alas, it's not going anywhere anytime soon, if ever.



seekerof

I would rather worship in my basement then go to church and be asked for a "donation". Not that I am against helpin out the fellow man........but
when I see a church that starts in a pole barn become this huge building filled with things many of its followers can't afford, I would tend to assume that the money that you donate would NOT be going towards feeding the homeless or buying medicine for the sick.

You are right its better to do the donation straight to the source than to pay the middle man.

To much politics played in church faith base programs.

And seekerof, money has always been the evil of man.

That is so true. 'Religions' perse are businesses. I don't think they were set up like that, but they have certainly become like it over the last century or so. Even the pagan belifes are like it now. Books for this, crustals, various 'accoutrements'. You're not a Christian/Muslim/Jew/Pagan unless you have this Crucifix/Crescent/Star/Pentagram.
Whatever happened to the original ideas ?
Pffft !!!! (There's no smiley to express that)

I was a serious seeker of truth, I took a deep long look at religions. From Roman Catholic, actually was studying for the Priesthood, to where I am now as a Wiccan. Well maybe not necessarily Wiccan, but of a Neo-Pagan variety. The only religion I have found that does not seem like a business would be Wicca, now I am not talking about books and tools and stuff like that. I am talking individuals. Most of the Covens, and Circles I personally know are exactly like Christianity used to be in the beginning. They meet at each others houses...they are a family...and they come together when needed, otherwise they are solitary cats. But then again, these Covens I know of from their respective High Priesthood (which is really nothing) are considered The Grandchildren of Shadows and so have a sort of cleaner perspective of the movement.

But before I get too of topic, I can already see the arguements against my reply. The idea of producing such books and tools and stuff was ORIGINALLY not intended to become a business, just to ease the pressure from the governments of the world, and the people, that we do not sacrifice babies and all that malarchy. But I am afraid Ravenna, that you are right....even Pagans are becoming too business like, it sickens me. I call them Dabblers

when i say religions make profit i mean there profit is gaining more followers than what they lost trying to gain more followers.

"HOLY" WARS SPRING TO MIND

Well, let me play Devil's Advocate. If it was not for all the money involved then we would have another very strong Depression, not that we are not already there. Religions which pay their Priests and Priestesses for stuff keeps some people with a job, which lessens the amount of people jobless. In fact, in Conversation With God, by Neale Donald Walsch, God says that it should not be wrong to pay those who do the greatest of work with money, but that we always shy from it and say we shouldn't. In fact we pay big money to those who supply products and not those who teach us. I think those who teach should be paid more, but based on a Donation as such things already are. Those who teach, or guide us spiritually should get payment, whether it is groceries or out of pocket cash, or by yard work for there services. But they should be paid. It is like a family. Would you leave your father and mother, who taught you lots, brought you into this world, to rot and die on the streets? I think a person would not. Would you like to know that when you are old and grey and can not work, that you children would do the same for you. That is how I view the Religious Teachers...but you are all right that where money is involved, corruption can rear its ugly head and taint a very good thing, and make it bad. Do I make sense?

I agree that most religions are run as businesses.

Given the opportunity, I would jump at the chance to buy shares in the Roman Catholic church. What a brilliantly clever, yet simple, marketing operation.

I was baptised a Roman Catholic by the way, but am now a confirmed atheist, having seen the light.

How true, religions are even tax free down here in Kiwiland, so we have very dubious groups calling themselves a church and so get tax free status.

I think that go's for the world over. You can take Brian Houston and his
Houston Corporation back to New Zealand anytime you like

members.ozemail.com.au...

The amount of times I've seen the Fundieban preaching on street corners,
while an unfortunate begs for food a few metres away, kinda makes me
wonder.

Text Red

You must mean Brian Houston who has the Hillsong Churches of AUSTRALIA, sorry but you can keep him we have enough of these ???Churches??? in N.Z. thanks, hes all yours.

Well, as for ALL religions being businesses, I can't comment because I know very little about the innerworkings of any religions except for one. For sixteen years of my life, (and as far paperwork is concerned, even up until now), I was a member of the Mormon church. I was a big believer in all of their doctrine and everything. Eventually I left, (or tried to leave), and that led me to start doing some research and investigating on the religion I had been born into and raised in and believed in all my life.

I did some math, and came to the conclusion that the Mormon "religion" is in NO way different from a business. It is not only the RICHEST church in the world, but also the fastest growing.

Members are required, "by God", to give ten percent of all their earnings to the Church. Each month they are supposed to skip three meals, and give the money they saved from not eating to the Church. The "sacred" underwear, known as "garments", that each member is required after receiving their Endowments, (another topic altogether), and that special underwear also costs money. The Church also owns the company Deseret Book. As a Mormon I used to buy books on religion from a small store by my house. I was cautioned by my church leaders NEVER to buy from ANYone except Deseret Book, which I thought was weird even at the time. Later the Prophet of the church, President Hinckley, (yes, he is referred to as the President more often than as the Prophet), was speaking at the annual General Conference, which is broadcast via sattelite to millions of members around the world, said that we should only buy books from Deseret Book. And that is just a short list of the way the Church rakes in the dough.

My uncle, (who left the Church when I did but rejoined since), used to work with some of the General Authorities, (members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, or one of the Quorums of the Seventy, and sometimes even of the Presidency), and he told me that every single one of them is a well-to-do, successful businessman.

Paying ten percent of your earnings, known as tithing, is considered a commandment from God in the Mormon church, although it's never listed along with the original ten given to Moses. However, the commandment of tithing is the ONE AND ONLY commandment that EVERY member of the Church is required to show up once a year for what's called "Tithing Settlement". Basically the Bishop in every Ward calls your whole family into the same room, then asks you in front of all of them if you pay your tithing. I have been to numerous tithing settlements, and there's a lot of pressure with your whole family there. They know if you do or don't pay your tithing, and it's all very uncomfortable. It's the ONLY commandment that they require you to do anything like this.

If you do not pay a full ten percent, you are not allowed to enter into the Mormon Temple and do the "work of God". (Don't get me started on the temple rituals.)

It is also considered a commandment to have kids. There's a ridiculous amount of pressure on people to get married as soon as they are of age, and even more pressure to have kids immediately after a couple is married. My aunt told me that her and my uncle were actually called in by their Stake President the week after they were wed, and he put a lot of pressure on them to start having kids immediately. Today she has five kids. It seems to me that this may or may not go along with the Church trying to make money. More kids mean more people paying more tithing, buying more books from Deseret Book, buying more special underwear, paying Fast Offerings, etc.

I also have heard a rumor that most if not all of the money the Mormon Church makes is tax-free, since it is considered a non-profit organization.

I could go even more into it, but this is already way too long. I'm actually wondering if I didn't go off on a tangent and this information I just typed is completely irelevant to the original topic. :p In conclusion, though, if the Momron religion, it is by far one of the most brilliant business ventures in human history. To have people giving their money away for a product called "salvation" which may or may not exist, and all the little fees on the side. Not to mention the fact that people are commanded to procreate and give birth to more "customers". And the two year mission men are required to go on at nineteen where for two years they are forced to recruit/convert more "customers". On top of which some if not all of it is tax-free! A brilliant business if I do say so myself!

[edit on 25-11-2004 by an3rkist]

[edit on 25-11-2004 by an3rkist]

Originally posted by marg6043
You are not ofending any one

Now - how would you know that?

Actually, I would not say that what Iknowthelies has said is offensive, but it is an oversimplification and a one-sided view by use of the term "just". Then of course the thread is another opportunity for others to offend with their constant belittling of anyone who actually find their religion to be what it is suppossed to be, a fulfilling spiritual journey to bring us closer to God.

Surely I can't deny that many religions are run as a business, but I do disagree that this is the bottom line and end all. I do however recognize that those who feel otherwise will never change their mind (barring an act of God ) and I hope they can recognize that nothing said by them will change mine.

Originally posted by Relentless

Originally posted by marg6043
You are not ofending any one

Now - how would you know that?

Actually, I would not say that what Iknowthelies has said is offensive, but it is an oversimplification and a one-sided view by use of the term "just". Then of course the thread is another opportunity for others to offend with their constant belittling of anyone who actually find their religion to be what it is suppossed to be, a fulfilling spiritual journey to bring us closer to God.

Surely I can't deny that many religions are run as a business, but I do disagree that this is the bottom line and end all. I do however recognize that those who feel otherwise will never change their mind (barring an act of God

) and I hope they can recognize that nothing said by them will change mine.

I don't expect to change anyones beliefs because as far as i know they could be right. The point i'm trying to make is that the people who "run" these religions seem to be corrupt

"POWER CORRUPTS, SO ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY"

Just think about that

Originally posted by Iknowthelies
I don't expect to change anyones beliefs because as far as i know they could be right. The point i'm trying to make is that the people who "run" these religions seem to be corrupt

"POWER CORRUPTS, SO ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY"

Just think about that

Actually Iknowthelies, that statement was not directed at you.

I do see your point by the way and unfortunately it will always be a danger whenever man is involved that corruption and power will take away from the intended purpose.

I do not think however that all people in power in religions are corrupt, there are always both. The corrupt and the true.

Originally posted by Relentless

Actually, I would not say that what Iknowthelies has said is offensive, but it is an oversimplification and a one-sided view by use of the term "just". Then of course the thread is another opportunity for others to offend with their constant belittling of anyone who actually find their religion to be what it is suppossed to be, a fulfilling spiritual journey to bring us closer to God.

Surely I can't deny that many religions are run as a business, but I do disagree that this is the bottom line and end all. I do however recognize that those who feel otherwise will never change their mind (barring an act of God

) and I hope they can recognize that nothing said by them will change mine.

There's really nothing that can be added to this reply to perfect in my mind - me being one of those who has spiritual beliefs and understands that a religion is a set of doctrinal beliefs - not a building, not an organization, not a structure of any type...just a set of spiritual beliefs.



[edit on 11-25-2004 by Valhall]

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IMHO religions are like businesses, but they are also like governments.

Governments tend to EQUATE themselves with the country rather than seeing themselves as caretakers or administrative facilitators of the country. Any attack on the government, even constructive criticism, is then defined as an attack on the country.

Religions tend to EQUATE themselves with what is Holy, rather than seeing themselves as caretakers or administrative facilitators of what is Holy. Any attack on the religion, even constructive criticism, is then defined as an attack on what is Holy.

As such, self-perpetuation becomes the primary goal of these institutions, rather than changing and evolving to meet the needs they were originally set up to serve.

Self-perpetuation of an institution requires money and control, especially control of hearts and minds. Control of minds takes the form of setting these institutions up to be beyond question. For governments we call this patriotism. For religions we call it faith. Those who question are labeled traitors or heretics.

Of the three, governments, religions, and corporations, corporations are the most honest in my opinion. We know up front that they are all about the money.
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Religions are and will always be big business.

You can look at the Rosyln chaple in Scotland, or the Vatican in Itlay, or the St Pauls. They are all the same.

To control the sheep and weak, while the wolfs and wicked have their nasty ways!

Sadly (unless the sheep wake up and become stronger) nothing will change and things will keep going the same way, untill they (the biggest religion of all) the illuminati sees fit that things should go a different way.