Putin puts troops on alert... What does the US have to gain?

Now that the peacful Olympic games are over (despite the bitching from gutter press from around the world about how awful they found their hotel rooms), it's back to the serious 'I'm harder and bigger than you" business I guess?

Vladimir Putin ordered an urgent drill to test the combat readiness of his armed forces across western Russia on Wednesday, flexing Moscow's military muscle amid tension with the West over Ukraine.

Russia said the exercises were not linked to events in Ukraine, where the ouster of a president who turned his back on the European Union and sought closer ties with Moscow has raised worries in the West over possibility of military intervention.

Link here : www.reuters.com...

However a conflictual report from other sources say this :

The Kremlin ordered major military exercises on Wednesday as concerns about unrest in Ukraine's Crimean peninsula continued to grow and scuffles in the region left one person dead.

The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, ordered an urgent drill of his country's armed forces in western Russia, in what appeared to be a display of sabre-rattling aimed at the new government in Kiev.

Link here : www.theguardian.com...

And then this :

Secretary of State John Kerry said it was urgent that Russia and the world "move forward" to help the new Ukrainian government weather an economic crisis, and that the U.S. would provide $1 billion in loan guarantees... So should this not be worded better as Russia and the US move forward?

The US reacted in a strongly worded message, with the secretary of state, John Kerry, saying that any military intervention in Ukraine would be a "grave mistake".

'We do not believe this should be an East-West, Russia-United States,' Secretary of State John Kerry told MSNBC. 'This is not Rocky IV, believe me.'

Rocky IV... of course it is not Mr Kerry :

In the film, the Soviet Union and their top boxer make an entrance into professional boxing with their best athlete Ivan Drago who initially wants to take on World Champion Rocky Balboa. His best friend Apollo Creed decides to fight him instead, but is killed in the ring. Enraged by this, Rocky decides to fight Drago in Russia to avenge his friend and defend the honor of his country.

Linky winky here : en.wikipedia.org...

Sounds to me like HE IS in fact pulling up his shirt sleeves for a playground fistfight no?

Link : www.usatoday.com...

Mr Kerry, what the hell have you got to do poking your nose into affairs that do not concern you... In my opinion (AS A EUROPEAN so much closer to home)... you should stop "gobbing off" so to speak and spend those $1 billion on your own people who need that money right now... PLUS... WHERE does that money come from?

Fellow ATSers, what do you think that the US has to gain out of this upcoming "probable" (I HOPE) diplomatic and not military conflict?

And to be fairplay about this question... What do you think Russia has to gain too?

Here we go again... another cold war??

Probably asking too many questions here but thought that you people might like to share your thoughts...


Kindest respects

Rodinus

Whilst it might not be the business of any other nation, chances are, there are background politics that aren't on the surface and perhaps aren't likely to be, fueling this talk from US politicians.

Seeing as a lot of political business is financed by commercial and state financed commercial businesses with interests in a network of 'seemingly unconnected' business networks, there are perhaps nudges and winks going on in the backrooms and in phone calls between string pullers with ''you scratch my back..'' type deals that are mutually rewarding, going on.

As for any MSM politics, the surface is the bit they let the masses see, the rest is probably the most insightful and the truer picture.

"For a country that has spoken out so frequently … against foreign intervention in Libya, in Syria, and elsewhere, it would be important for them to heed those warnings as they think about options in the sovereign nation of Ukraine," Kerry said last night.

In 1968, the fact that the Russians had taken a moral stance against American action in Vietnam did not prevent them from moving in to occupy Czechoslovakia.
Nor did the West make any response to the invasion.

DISRAELI

"For a country that has spoken out so frequently … against foreign intervention in Libya, in Syria, and elsewhere, it would be important for them to heed those warnings as they think about options in the sovereign nation of Ukraine," Kerry said last night.

In 1968, the fact that the Russians had taken a moral stance against American action in Vietnam did not prevent them from moving in to occupy Czechoslovakia.
Nor did the West make any response to the invasion.

I think that what we have to remind ourselves about now Des, is the fact that we are no longer in 1968 but in 2014 and that Geopolitical (and material needs) status has changed in many countries no?

Just chucking the thought out there?

Kindest respects

Rodinus

reply to post by Rodinus


Yet another chapter begins, in what I habitually refer to as the eternal phallus waving contest, in which all muscular nations participate, when manning opposing positions on international affairs.

On the one hand, it is important that the Ukrainian people be allowed to construct a government which will work for them, stabilise the economy, and provide for its citizens an environment which is conducive to progress, freedom, and peace. But on the other hand, trying to promote that by way of back channel deals, overt statements of intent, and arguing the toss on the part of uninvolved nations, will not help.

The fractured nature of the Ukrainian opinion on whether they ought to be more aligned to the Russians, or to Europe, means that the people themselves have not made up their minds yet, how they wish to proceed. Furthermore, until they do speak with one voice, there is little point in either Russia, the European Union, or indeed Britain and the US having their press junkets and indulging in a round of what amounts to gobbling off across a pool table at ones opponent. Now is not the time for psyching people out, but the time to support the right of the Ukrainian people to choose their fate, and live with the consequences, just as everyone else has to.

seems there's always this precarious balance of power
to me it all just reads like one big script..

bring on the martian invaders already

The problem for me is to try and decipher what it is that the Ukrainian people truly want.

I cannot rely on MSM reporting and in fact consider them no better than mouth pieces for big business. We do not know who is behind the recent upheavals but recent history would suggest it may well be Western Intel organizations. It is just so damn hard to determine the real truth!

When we look at the long term damage in many other countries we have to pause and consider. The Arab spring changed the government of Egypt and we were told that this was what the Egyptian people wanted. Well, it seems as though it was not, as they have made a few changes since then.

I am bloody sure that Western interests do not give a rats bum for the people of the Ukraine and I am also damn sure that Russia does not give rats bum either.

I hope the people of the Ukraine are strong enough to weather the storm. They seem pretty capable so far.

P

We should support democracy of course but not by force. We and Democracy have far more to lose in a confrontation with Russia than to gain. IN this case it is their backyard. We would do far better to deal with Mexico, Venezuela and Cuba. We should use the fact Russia is tied up in the Ukraine as a time to settle things with Venezuela.

Cats outa the bag. Freedom is known in all the previous Russian states and the people will fight for it. Putin has no chance to win the long term there. Now is excellent time to engage South American problems. Plenty oil down there too.

I don't think our government is smart enough to see this opportunity though.

Putin cant complain if America takes on Venezuela and Cuba while he is engaged with old Russian states.

reply to post by Rodinus

Fellow ATSers, what do you think that the US has to gain out of this upcoming "probable" (I HOPE) diplomatic and not military conflict?

Absolutely nothing, which is why they have and will do nothing.

And to be fairplay about this question... What do you think Russia has to gain too?

Russia has nothing to gain, but plenty to lose. Sevastopol is its only year round harbor. It will go to any length to keep it. Putin is praying that Ukraine will not call his bluff. Ukraine could conceivably blockade Sevastopol and keep Russian ground troops at bay long enough to bloody Putin's nose in front of the entire world. This would seriously cripple him both internationally and domestically.

Here we go again... another cold war??

What do you mean "another?"

"What does the US have to gain "
That's an easy one : selling weapons to ALL SIDES of course
www.youtube.com...

russia gave ukraine $3 billion lately as part of a $15 billion deal and the usa is offering another $1 billion to them i can see this splitting the country and it turning into syria mk2 russia will switch off the oil and we will have a cold war but i really hope i am wrong on this

as any fighting will drag more countrys in real quick

Rodinus
Now that the peacful Olympic games are over (despite the bitching from gutter press from around the world about how awful they found their hotel rooms), it's back to the serious 'I'm harder and bigger than you" business I guess?

Vladimir Putin ordered an urgent drill to test the combat readiness of his armed forces across western Russia on Wednesday, flexing Moscow's military muscle amid tension with the West over Ukraine.

Russia said the exercises were not linked to events in Ukraine, where the ouster of a president who turned his back on the European Union and sought closer ties with Moscow has raised worries in the West over possibility of military intervention.

Link here : www.reuters.com...

However a conflictual report from other sources say this :

The Kremlin ordered major military exercises on Wednesday as concerns about unrest in Ukraine's Crimean peninsula continued to grow and scuffles in the region left one person dead.

The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, ordered an urgent drill of his country's armed forces in western Russia, in what appeared to be a display of sabre-rattling aimed at the new government in Kiev.

Link here : www.theguardian.com...

And then this :

Secretary of State John Kerry said it was urgent that Russia and the world "move forward" to help the new Ukrainian government weather an economic crisis, and that the U.S. would provide $1 billion in loan guarantees... So should this not be worded better as Russia and the US move forward?

The US reacted in a strongly worded message, with the secretary of state, John Kerry, saying that any military intervention in Ukraine would be a "grave mistake".

'We do not believe this should be an East-West, Russia-United States,' Secretary of State John Kerry told MSNBC. 'This is not Rocky IV, believe me.'

Rocky IV... of course it is not Mr Kerry :

In the film, the Soviet Union and their top boxer make an entrance into professional boxing with their best athlete Ivan Drago who initially wants to take on World Champion Rocky Balboa. His best friend Apollo Creed decides to fight him instead, but is killed in the ring. Enraged by this, Rocky decides to fight Drago in Russia to avenge his friend and defend the honor of his country.

Linky winky here : en.wikipedia.org...

Sounds to me like HE IS in fact pulling up his shirt sleeves for a playground fistfight no?

Link : www.usatoday.com...

Mr Kerry, what the hell have you got to do poking your nose into affairs that do not concern you... In my opinion (AS A EUROPEAN so much closer to home)... you should stop "gobbing off" so to speak and spend those $1 billion on your own people who need that money right now... PLUS... WHERE does that money come from?

Fellow ATSers, what do you think that the US has to gain out of this upcoming "probable" (I HOPE) diplomatic and not military conflict?

And to be fairplay about this question... What do you think Russia has to gain too?

Here we go again... another cold war??

Probably asking too many questions here but thought that you people might like to share your thoughts...


Kindest respects

Rodinus

edit on 27/2/14 by Rodinus because: Link added

It isnt possible for America and Russia to have another cold war, Russia is a 3rd world country, they are broke, they have the same annual revenue as California and Newyork. They are basically cuba venezuela and the "stans" combined. Meaning they have crap.

They are nothing and they know it, all their tech is decades old, Russian tanks have been used against modern main battle tanks extensively, I believe the kill ratio is something along the lines of 500 Russian tanks to one modern western tank.

Their airforce is pathetically old, they have like 100 modern age aircraft. Their radars cant see any of the modern aged stealth craft.

Their navy is pathetic at best, they have less than 20 modern ships. No modern western navy fears anything they have but the Kirov class missile cruiser.

Yes they have an impressive military by 1980's standards, too bad for them it is 2014.

If I were Russia I would STFU, the only thing they have are nukes, and they only work because America gave them billions in the late 90's to update and repair them.

Russia is a 65 year old fighter, sure in it younger days it was fierce, now it is too old, and too pathetic.

Maybe it should have invested in its future like the rest of the modern world.

The lines are being drawn and the stage is being set. Kerry's words seem to me like a dare. The response Putin is an obvious choice if he stands down he appears weak to his own people. Putin must make a move whether it be an act of defiance or a thumb in the eye to the USA he has to appear strong so his strength domestically and internationally doesn't erode. I am beginning to think our administration hopes for conflict there seems to me a dark presence in the White House and Kerry's gaze and showmanship makes me worry. When i see the way he behaves it reminds me of two fighting cocks puffing out their chest just before they throw down.

reply to post by oblvion


This should worry you more not less. The only means they have to show strength is their nuclear arsenal......

oblvion


It isnt possible for America and Russia to have another cold war, Russia is a 3rd world country, they are broke, they have the same annual revenue as California and Newyork. They are basically cuba venezuela and the "stans" combined. Meaning they have crap.

They are nothing and they know it, all their tech is decades old, Russian tanks have been used against modern main battle tanks extensively, I believe the kill ratio is something along the lines of 500 Russian tanks to one modern western tank.

Their airforce is pathetically old, they have like 100 modern age aircraft. Their radars cant see any of the modern aged stealth craft.

Their navy is pathetic at best, they have less than 20 modern ships. No modern western navy fears anything they have but the Kirov class missile cruiser.

Yes they have an impressive military by 1980's standards, too bad for them it is 2014.

If I were Russia I would STFU, the only thing they have are nukes, and they only work because America gave them billions in the late 90's to update and repair them.

Russia is a 65 year old fighter, sure in it younger days it was fierce, now it is too old, and too pathetic.

Maybe it should have invested in its future like the rest of the modern world.

The arrogance is blinding......


3 very powerfull people thought exactly the same as you, there names were:
Napoleon
Wilhelm II
And
Adolf Hitler

All thought the Russians were backwards and there military in shambles. All three had some of the best militarys of there time.

All three got there arses kicked.


If Obama not carefull he could very well join that list.

And as you pointed out Russia has nukes. Lots and lots of nukes. USA could spend double whats its spending on its military yet a well placed nuke on a army advanceing on moscow would be game over dude , game over!

Shaiker
reply to post by oblvion

 

This should worry you more not less. The only means they have to show strength is their nuclear arsenal......

I wont disgree there. If it actually came to conflict they would have no choice but to use their nuclear deterent, because they have nothing else of actual use on a modern battlefield.

They would send thousands of tanks across the border, we would kill them in less than a week, their aircraft would be lucky to make the border before being shot down, their navy would stay away as that is their only defense, they have A LOT of ground to ground missiles, 80's tech or not, they have A LOT, much more than our patriots could stop.

This tactic though leads to us using our ground to ground MLRS and ours is way way way better, longer range and more accurate.

Hell the Russian military is so pathetic by western standards we dont even train to fight them anymore.

The only thing they have is the numbers, they have tens of thousands of tanks.......That is beyond the scale of tank warfare ever seen in history. Though a few B2 flights and just so many JDAMS later they are all smoking craters.

In truth Russia has only one actual military option, invade and threaten the west with their nukes if they retaliate. That is their only winning strategy in actual warfare VS the west.

reply to post by oblvion


Why fight a bull (USA) head to head when you can just stab it from within. The days of using a military head on are now similar to line up and shoot each other from the 1800's. Our spy program has been exposed for the unmanageable monstrosity it is. Has Russia"s? a few carefully placed bombs within the US could essentially bring us to our knees. Only a fool would enter a battlefield ill prepared.

reply to post by crazyewok


Yes your right GAME OVER, for them, and everyone else everywhere, because we would also launch some of ours, and most of theirs are ground based, so we would wipe out most of them, but the ones that get away are equipped with MIRV ( multiple independently targeted reentry vehicles) warheads, meaning one missile isnt one bomb, it is several, along with several dummy decoys to stop us shooting the real ones down.

If it means enough to Russia to wipe out all mankind so they can be bullies in western EU than they are even more pathetic than I believe, which is a stretch because they are pathetic IRL.

Russia will not risk nuclear war so they can bully Kiev into submission.

They are obviously bluffing.

As far as your mentioning napoleon and hitler, I never advocated invading Russia, especially not in the middle of winter with only summer uniforms.

That is stupidity at its finest.

crazyewok
3 very powerfull people thought exactly the same as you, there names were:
Napoleon
Wilhelm II
And
Adolf Hitler

All thought the Russians were backwards and there military in shambles. All three had some of the best militarys of there time.

All three got there arses kicked.


If Obama not carefull he could very well join that list.

As if the US/West would be stupid enough to invade Russia as per the examples you have given. There wont be any attack on Russia. Get a grip.

By the Way...

The Russian Winter had beaten Napoleon
Wilhelm as you put it actually relaxed the Eastern front forces when the Russian troops pretty much went home and started a revolution shortly there after.

Come on wok, you could do better than that.

Shaiker
reply to post by oblvion

 

Why fight a bull (USA) head to head when you can just stab it from within. The days of using a military head on are now similar to line up and shoot each other from the 1800's. Our spy program has been exposed for the unmanageable monstrosity it is. Has Russia"s? a few carefully placed bombs within the US could essentially bring us to our knees. Only a fool would enter a battlefield ill prepared.

Honestly this is the real Russian threat. Their spy network has been known for decades as the one to which all others aspire.

However,they cant set nukes off in America. Every nuke a specific signature attached to it. It would only be a couple of days max before we could know exactly which mine it was dug out of, and in exactly which reactor the plutonium was enriched in.

It is like carving your name into your murder victim, along with your address, DL number, and SS number.