Why is there anything instead of nothing?

GodIsRelative
I thought this was nearly perfect except one line.

You are the emptiness that makes everything happen.

I thought it should read closer to "The emptiness that makes everything happen is the void of 'you.' "

Well, thats the shortcommings of language. The emptiness doesn't make anything. And there is no you to have a void from witch things can arise. What's happening IS the emptiness appearing to be everything. That's all. There is nothing more to it.

But you are right, my sentence wasn't accurate either. The words can only be pointers to something beyond their ability to describe. The words can only take one so far, the rest of the way you must walk on your own. So to speak.

Surely 'nothing' is the absence of 'anything'?

The only place i can conceive that is 'nothing' would be outside of the universe perhaps?

reply to post by johnb


No, there isn't anything outside the universe, not even nothing. The universe isn't located anywhere either. The universe is what appears to be happening because it IS nothing. It is nothing "self-defining", by not being any of the things that appears to be real and going on (universe). It is just the potential possibility of what it would not be, had the universe been real for real. And within this infinity of possibilities, there are absolutely every single possibility for anything.

Every possible moment is contained within this mysterious nothing, and every single one of these moments are going on at the same time. Every one of this moments are perfect in their own way. They couldn't be different than they are. If they were, they would just be another moment which already would be there as a possibility in the first place. You see? Any given moment cannot be anything other than what it is. And every moment feels like THIS. And to every moment, every other moment feels like just a thought or an alternative reality. We think in linear time, but there are no linearity between moments. Because every moment is all there is. It's everything. They are in themselves their own Groundhog-day movie. What you think or believe you are, is just a part of the moment.

What we normally percieve as things changing or happening around us is just the difference between one moment and any other.

So, there is a difference in what the "real" nothing appears to be, and what we normally think of as nothing. This is part of whats making this confusing. Yet, there is an incomprehensible mystery here as well. Which cannot be described. In any way!
There is "more" to this Nothing and I won't try to describe it.


Edit to add: Within an infinity of possible moments of reality, there was bound to be one where you showed up.

reply to post by Koyaanisqatsi


I think you are messing up by trying to canceling out a nonexistent denominator.

You get to 1 = 1

And then you try to say, therefor 1 is equivalent to nothing because the denominators are the same... but it doesn't cancel out - not truly, because there is no denominator - there is no cause - no reason.

Therefor, 1 = something, and nothing shall remain nothing, as nothing cannot be a denominator.

What are your thoughts on my first post in this thread? here

Bleeeeep
reply to post by Koyaanisqatsi

 

I think you are messing up by trying to canceling out a nonexistent denominator.

You get to 1 = 1

And then you try to say, therefor 1 is equivalent to nothing because the denominators are the same... but it doesn't cancel out - not truly, because there is no denominator - there is no cause - no reason.

Therefor, 1 = something, and nothing shall remain nothing, as nothing cannot be a denominator.

What are your thoughts on my first post in this thread? here

No, I am not cancelling out a nonexistent denominator. There is no denominator, as you correctly state. Neither cause nor reason. There isn't a 1 there in the first place that can be 1 = 1. It's absurd, I know. But there is a part here that can't be described. Nor can it be understood. So, I have no way of keeping this discussion on a logical level. It defies logic, and thus it becomes kind of pointless to explain this whole thing by trying to find an answer in logic. It can't be done. At least not by me.

Just to clarify again, this idea does not originate with me. I didn't come up with this as a philosophy or worldview. I am merely trying to approach an age-old phenomenon that has been the core teaching in eastern religions and philosophies that many call enlightenment, from a different perspective than reading about it in The Tao Te Ching (which is a great read, btw). I'm trying to convey what is actually happening when the universe is seen from a "Liberated state". It's a difficult task. And greatly misunderstood. Also by famous "spiritual teachers" and gurus.

I'll have a look at your post and come back to you

Why is there anything instead of nothing?

Is there?

Skyfloating

Why is there anything instead of nothing?

Is there?

No, it isn't. Thats what the thread is about.

Koyaanisqatsi


No, it isn't. Thats what the thread is about.

I see. I read your thread just now, after responding to the title.

So there is neither something nor nothing nor neither of those nor both.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Correct. It only appears to be something. But it is enough to surfe the infinit sea of quantum-waves while collapsing wave-forms into moments as needed. Like a kid pops soap-bubbles. It's all make-believe, a play. Or so it seems.

Edit to add: It's of course not like that at all, but it is not so far off in its "spirit". I can only point to the moon.

Koyaanisqatsi


Edit to add: It's of course not like that at all, but it is not so far off in its "spirit". I can only point to the moon.

edit on 20-2-2014 by Koyaanisqatsi because: Added info.

Yes of course. Using a thought to cease thought.

Skyfloating

Koyaanisqatsi


Edit to add: It's of course not like that at all, but it is not so far off in its "spirit". I can only point to the moon.

edit on 20-2-2014 by Koyaanisqatsi because: Added info.

Yes of course. Using a thought to cease thought.

Thank you! It's of course impossible to use a thought to stop a thought, so when the futility of that somehow is recognized, the thoughts may cease to appear, or not. There are no rules. At least you now recognize what a thought is (or isn't). It's not "yours". It's just what's happening.

I like this.

The way it makes the most sense to me is to imagine the "Universe" as a giant Zero and we're just running circles around the edge endlessly for all of "time," which is itself just a mechanism we use to ascribe ourselves a position on this bubble, even though stepping on the bubble itself means that you're everywhere and nowhere at the same time, because it's just a zero..

In this form, I've thought of an equation to describe the functions of the universe.

It's not that 1=1
but that 0=Infinity

And I think that's as close as we can get to objective truth.

reply to post by Koyaanisqatsi


Let me have a swing at this...

First, I don't think the "Why" really matters. Just because we can ask it doesn't mean it requires to be asked.
It's like the little kid that has just learned the ability to ask "Why?", and no matter what answer you offer this wee child, the next thing out of his/her mouth will inevitably be "Why?"...

I think it's the wrong question to ask here because it's just not applicable. And that's okay. So let's forget the Why for now as it pertains to the existence of something, and start to think outside our logical construct in a different way without, if this is even possible, sounding too illogical...

Second, there doesn't need to be a concept of "nothing". It means nothing, ironically enough, and it just tends to confuse our notions of existence... so let's just put that idea away for now.

As we should all know, everything that exists and has ever existed, all matter/energy, is just another form of its previous existence; the result of it's last transformation in progress to it's next transformation, and so on and so on, etc etc etc... IOW things/matter/energy/whatever is not created, only transformed. Only ever transformed, ad infinitum.

I'm of the opinion, that any idea about our physical universe being created is patently false. If you think you were created, well, you would be wrong. You, just like the universe, are merely the current configuration of an amount of energy/matter, which will just change into something else.

Now having said all that, I do think that this entire chain of transformation leads back to some ultimate thing. Some type of super matter or super structure that encompasses everything, but there's nothing that encompasses it. The buck stops with this super thing. It is the ultimate conglomeration of all forms of matter and energy that has ever existed. So huge that it seems infinite to our minds. Some might refer to this as God. I don''t have any sort of concept of what it is. But I do think that it has existed forever and will continue to do so. It was neither created nor will it ever cease to exist, it just is. That's the reality of this super system, and the best my limited vocabulary will allow. Doesn't make sense to our current logic because we tend to think that things have to be created from/by something else and then go away. I don't think that's how it works...

Of course, I could be totally wrong. If there is such a thing as being wrong in an infinite universe.

PhotonEffect
reply to post by Koyaanisqatsi

 

Let me have a swing at this...

First, I don't think the "Why" really matters. Just because we can ask it doesn't mean it requires to be asked.
It's like the little kid that has just learned the ability to ask "Why?", and no matter what answer you offer this wee child, the next thing out of his/her mouth will inevitably be "Why?"...

I agree. Pretty much what I said in the OP.

I think it's the wrong question to ask here because it's just not applicable. And that's okay. So let's forget the Why for now as it pertains to the existence of something, and start to think outside our logical construct in a different way without, if this is even possible, sounding too illogical...

I agree again. It is an illogical question from the start, and can't be answered.

Second, there doesn't need to be a concept of "nothing". It means nothing, ironically enough, and it just tends to confuse our notions of existence... so let's just put that idea away for now.

I agree again! There can't be a concept of nothing. All concepts are illusions and appear only in the "Dream-world" Or Maya's playground. The one that appears - to be real.

As we should all know, everything that exists and has ever existed, all matter/energy, is just another form of its previous existence; the result of it's last transformation in progress to it's next transformation, and so on and so on, etc etc etc... IOW things/matter/energy/whatever is not created, only transformed. Only ever transformed, ad infinitum.

I still agree! However, I would like to add that it only appears to be real. It's nothing appearing as All There Is. I am deeper into this in some of my previous posts.

I'm of the opinion, that any idea about our physical universe being created is patently false. If you think you were created, well, you would be wrong. You, just like the universe, are merely the current configuration of an amount of energy/matter, which will just change into something else.

I can only smile. (the disclaimer from the above comment goes here too.)

Now having said all that, I do think that this entire chain of transformation leads back to some ultimate thing. Some type of super matter or super structure that encompasses everything, but there's nothing that encompasses it. The buck stops with this super thing. It is the ultimate conglomeration of all forms of matter and energy that has ever existed. So huge that it seems infinite to our minds. Some might refer to this as God. I don''t have any sort of concept of what it is. But I do think that it has existed forever and will continue to do so. It was neither created nor will it ever cease to exist, it just is. That's the reality of this super system, and the best my limited vocabulary will allow. Doesn't make sense to our current logic because we tend to think that things have to be created from/by something else and then go away. I don't think that's how it works...

I understand what you are trying to say and where your words are pointing. I think they point the right way.

Of course, I could be totally wrong. If there is such a thing as being wrong in an infinite universe.

No, you can't be wrong. There is no "you" to be wrong in the first place. There are no things and of course there isn't any right or wrong.

Thank you, for posting. I think it was great input and though you say it differently, we're probably both pointing the same way.

I just would like to add a small detail. I don't "know" these things either. I could just as well be totally entangled in Maya's net believing I had revealed her. Which in the grand scheme of things is the most probable one.

"Why?" isn't the question. "What happened?" is the question.

Something happened that allowed "something" to emerge (that's a given, unless you embrace an infinite reductionistic view of Reality, which means that you've got no answers and have no desire for answers). That occurrence happened, but that doesn't mean that there was a reason behind the occurrence of that occurrence. It only means that it did happen.

I approach this inquiry like any investigation of something that obviously happened, and start with "what happened?" before losing my focus with other ancillary (and perhaps unanswerable) questions.

Philosophy and science (as it's conducted now-days) can't answer this question of "What happened?". It requires an investigation based on deductive reason.

Very good stuff to think about.

My simple thoughts...

When i first wake each day... the light shining through the window or the alarm going off are the first things I see or hear. Then come my thoughts. My thoughts were not there originally. They formed because of the sunlight kissing my face or the noise penetrating my ears. The thoughts then formed into something. Nothing from something. No thoughts to thoughts.

In this scenario first there was light or sound and then my thoughts formed.

Both light and sound are forms of frequencies or energy. But where did the energy come from to enable the creation of the thought ?

A never ending circle of thought... infinity...

leolady

Koyaanisqatsi
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

Correct. It only appears to be something. But it is enough to surfe the infinit sea of quantum-waves while collapsing wave-forms into moments as needed. Like a kid pops soap-bubbles. It's all make-believe, a play. Or so it seems.

Edit to add: It's of course not like that at all, but it is not so far off in its "spirit". I can only point to the moon.

edit on 20-2-2014 by Koyaanisqatsi because: Added info.

You are wrong and playing games of semantics.

Define this nothing of yours, that can allow seemingly such somethings.