Photos: The Greatest Evidence UFOs Don't Exist

reply to post by MysterX

OK...personal proof then. It helps if you have actually seen the phenomena.

What you are describing is subjective experience influenced by personal belief. Now what someone saw may have been an actual alien craft but there is no way to get around the subjective-ness of the experience in which case there is not much you can do except believe them or not.

unb3k44n7
Because maybe there's not "hundreds of thousands" of 'actual' sightings.

As for the 'actual' sightings It's likely many people are unprepared and do not think; They freeze up/and or before they realize to take a picture It's over.

Also, no, not everybody has a camera at hand during their sighting.
There's nothing that can prepare you for a sighting.

I enjoy you calling the reasons for lack of photos excuses.
Let me know when you have a sighting, and if you have a high tech camera (other than a cell phone) on you and actually remember to use it.

Your thread has no basis.

edit on 2/17/2014 by unb3k44n7 because: (no reason given)

IS the logic here thusly: if you tell enough lies then some of the lies must be the truth?
Not saying all sightings are lies..but the analogy seems a good one to me.

Just because hundreds of thousands of sightings have been claimed/reported.. does not mean
ANY of them are actually alien craft, as there has been no hard evidence of this to date that I am aware of.

ZetaRediculian
reply to post by MysterX

 

OK...personal proof then. It helps if you have actually seen the phenomena.

What you are describing is subjective experience influenced by personal belief. Now what someone saw may have been an actual alien craft but there is no way to get around the subjective-ness of the experience in which case there is not much you can do except believe them or not.

edit on 19-2-2014 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)

As a witness, I believe but I still want concrete evidence just for my own personal reasons.

As for photos as evidence, I end up dismissing them all, what we need is new technology, so perhaps the new laser cameras may provide a new picture, so to speak.

dragonridr

soul44
If you could create a device that can pull memories and images from my brain then you will see what i believe to be 3 genuine "UFOS' which i have seen over the last 4 years. I think that just because credible photos dont exist even though there are a vast amounts of recording mediums around does not mean 'UFO' aren't real. Also Aliens obviously are not stupid i mean why use an alien aircraft in our skies when you can hide in plain sight by using a plane or helicopter or drone which resemble our own. There are also factors such as camouflage, speed, invisibility cloaking from visual and radar detection as to why we aren't able to see them and take photos . I know that all my sightings never lasted more than 15 seconds or so no where near enough time to get a camera out and record the event for all to see.

So you dont think there is any other possible reason for your sightings other than aliens? People see UFOs all the time doesnt mean they're aliens. Just like people that take photos of dust think its a ghost. See cameras are funny if you didnt see it until after you looked at the photo than it was something really small caught by the flash. Ive seen insects people swear is a ufo because it looks different on film. Just because you have no explanation for what you saw doesnt mean it had to be aliens. Im going to be honest anyone that claims multiple sightings sends off alarm bells for me. Sightings are so rare and one individeal has multiple its like being struck by lightning several times. This tells me the person is predisposed to think it was aliens they saw.

edit on 2/18/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

Well i never said my sightings were aliens i just said i believe them to be genuine UFO's but just because i couldn't identify them I'm not saying that someone else couldn't its just that under the circumstances and scenarios i saw them in they couldn't have been any known conventional aircraft. I live near a small airport and army barracks so I'm quite used to seeing airplanes and helicopters in the sky. You have a good point we shouldn't trust in photos i never supported the argument for photos i am supporting the argument for credible witnesses sometimes you have to take their word for it. As much as we would like to think not everyone is crazy and i think I'm one of those very credible witnesses. My signing were accompanied my another witness twice in the form of my ex GF, once i reach twenty post i will create a detailed thread on these sightings. Also i do consider myself lucky to have witnessed what i saw however short the signings were. Also i am not predisposed to thinking it was Aliens even though i do believe in their existence without a shadow of a doubt.

soul44

dragonridr

soul44
If you could create a device that can pull memories and images from my brain then you will see what i believe to be 3 genuine "UFOS' which i have seen over the last 4 years. I think that just because credible photos dont exist even though there are a vast amounts of recording mediums around does not mean 'UFO' aren't real. Also Aliens obviously are not stupid i mean why use an alien aircraft in our skies when you can hide in plain sight by using a plane or helicopter or drone which resemble our own. There are also factors such as camouflage, speed, invisibility cloaking from visual and radar detection as to why we aren't able to see them and take photos . I know that all my sightings never lasted more than 15 seconds or so no where near enough time to get a camera out and record the event for all to see.

So you dont think there is any other possible reason for your sightings other than aliens? People see UFOs all the time doesnt mean they're aliens. Just like people that take photos of dust think its a ghost. See cameras are funny if you didnt see it until after you looked at the photo than it was something really small caught by the flash. Ive seen insects people swear is a ufo because it looks different on film. Just because you have no explanation for what you saw doesnt mean it had to be aliens. Im going to be honest anyone that claims multiple sightings sends off alarm bells for me. Sightings are so rare and one individeal has multiple its like being struck by lightning several times. This tells me the person is predisposed to think it was aliens they saw.

edit on 2/18/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

Well i never said my sightings were aliens i just said i believe them to be genuine UFO's but just because i couldn't identify them I'm not saying that someone else couldn't its just that under the circumstances and scenarios i saw them in they couldn't have been any known conventional aircraft. I live near a small airport and army barracks so I'm quite used to seeing airplanes and helicopters in the sky. You have a good point we shouldn't trust in photos i never supported the argument for photos i am supporting the argument for credible witnesses sometimes you have to take their word for it. As much as we would like to think not everyone is crazy and i think I'm one of those very credible witnesses. My signing were accompanied my another witness twice in the form of my ex GF, once i reach twenty post i will create a detailed thread on these sightings. Also i do consider myself lucky to have witnessed what i saw however short the signings were. Also i am not predisposed to thinking it was Aliens even though i do believe in their existence without a shadow of a doubt.

Actually i do give some credence to eyewitness testimony i am sure they saw something. When i was in the military i saw what could be called a UFO we had no explanation. Even tracked it on radar but even with me knowing that im still not willing to make the leap and say it was aliens when it could have been the US government testing an aircraft. What better way than have it fly into a military restricted zone and see what happens. Do to the fact what we saw of the craft was simply a light we dont know what we saw.There could be a perfectly rational explanation.With your sighting unless you saw aliens flying the thing it could be any number of possibilities. To be honest i would love seeing proof of alien visitations for many years was looking. But the more you look the more you realize just how little proof there is and you have better odds of proving there is a Santa Claus. Maybe im jaded from one to many fake youtube vid who knows but at this point i just look at the facts no more wishful thinking.Stops you from being disappointed when someone is hoaxing you.

ZetaRediculian
Now if you take one proof positive piece of solitary evidence, you will indeed paint a picture that reflects reality but putting all your non conclusive evidence together and saying its aliens only reflects your imagination.

You seem to be having a conversation with someone that isn't there. I'm not making the assumption that these craft are piloted by aliens (and if I suggested that, could you point out where I did?). I'm more interested in whether the craft themselves exist, and while the evidence is technically inconclusive (for you or I at least) regarding even their existence, I think there is sufficient evidence in place to strongly suggest the reality of objectively real, structured, seemingly manufactured craft. To say the craft themselves exist entirely in peoples' imaginations is, I think, a stretch I'm not willing to take. There are just too many sightings of them involving multiple witnesses, physical trace evidence, military encounters, admissions by top officials of their existence (astronauts, government officials, scientists, every day people, etc.). In my home town alone, I know of at least four people who have seen the large, silent black triangles. Two of them saw it up close and personal, and were severely effected by the experience. In fact a former Lockheed CEO, Ben Rich, admitted that not only do UFOs exist, but that some of them aren't "ours". I'm pretty sure Ben Rich had access to more information regarding this subject than you or I could ever dream of, and that was his conclusion. So even if you did want to build a case that some of these craft aren't "ours", then you could present a pretty good case. On the other hand, you could assume that all of these astronauts, government officials, military officers and personnel including generals, Lockheed CEOs, scientists and countless civilians are all crazy, and you're the only sane one. Sorry, but I'm not willing to make that bet. The UFO phenomenon is not as "inconclusive" as some people want to make it out to be.

dragonridr

soul44

dragonridr

soul44
If you could create a device that can pull memories and images from my brain then you will see what i believe to be 3 genuine "UFOS' which i have seen over the last 4 years. I think that just because credible photos dont exist even though there are a vast amounts of recording mediums around does not mean 'UFO' aren't real. Also Aliens obviously are not stupid i mean why use an alien aircraft in our skies when you can hide in plain sight by using a plane or helicopter or drone which resemble our own. There are also factors such as camouflage, speed, invisibility cloaking from visual and radar detection as to why we aren't able to see them and take photos . I know that all my sightings never lasted more than 15 seconds or so no where near enough time to get a camera out and record the event for all to see.

So you dont think there is any other possible reason for your sightings other than aliens? People see UFOs all the time doesnt mean they're aliens. Just like people that take photos of dust think its a ghost. See cameras are funny if you didnt see it until after you looked at the photo than it was something really small caught by the flash. Ive seen insects people swear is a ufo because it looks different on film. Just because you have no explanation for what you saw doesnt mean it had to be aliens. Im going to be honest anyone that claims multiple sightings sends off alarm bells for me. Sightings are so rare and one individeal has multiple its like being struck by lightning several times. This tells me the person is predisposed to think it was aliens they saw.

edit on 2/18/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

Well i never said my sightings were aliens i just said i believe them to be genuine UFO's but just because i couldn't identify them I'm not saying that someone else couldn't its just that under the circumstances and scenarios i saw them in they couldn't have been any known conventional aircraft. I live near a small airport and army barracks so I'm quite used to seeing airplanes and helicopters in the sky. You have a good point we shouldn't trust in photos i never supported the argument for photos i am supporting the argument for credible witnesses sometimes you have to take their word for it. As much as we would like to think not everyone is crazy and i think I'm one of those very credible witnesses. My signing were accompanied my another witness twice in the form of my ex GF, once i reach twenty post i will create a detailed thread on these sightings. Also i do consider myself lucky to have witnessed what i saw however short the signings were. Also i am not predisposed to thinking it was Aliens even though i do believe in their existence without a shadow of a doubt.

Actually i do give some credence to eyewitness testimony i am sure they saw something. When i was in the military i saw what could be called a UFO we had no explanation. Even tracked it on radar but even with me knowing that im still not willing to make the leap and say it was aliens when it could have been the US government testing an aircraft. What better way than have it fly into a military restricted zone and see what happens. Do to the fact what we saw of the craft was simply a light we dont know what we saw.There could be a perfectly rational explanation.With your sighting unless you saw aliens flying the thing it could be any number of possibilities. To be honest i would love seeing proof of alien visitations for many years was looking. But the more you look the more you realize just how little proof there is and you have better odds of proving there is a Santa Claus. Maybe im jaded from one to many fake youtube vid who knows but at this point i just look at the facts no more wishful thinking.Stops you from being disappointed when someone is hoaxing you.

Yes i totally agree in regards to the wishful thinking. Hey i just created my UFO sightings thread so if you wanna check it out below is the link

My three personal UFO sightings

Brighter


You seem to be having a conversation with someone that isn't there. I'm not making the assumption that these craft are piloted by aliens (and if I suggested that, could you point out where I did?). I'm more interested in whether the craft themselves exist, and while the evidence is technically inconclusive (for you or I at least) regarding even their existence, I think there is sufficient evidence in place to strongly suggest the reality of objectively real, structured, seemingly manufactured craft. To say the craft themselves exist entirely in peoples' imaginations is, I think, a stretch I'm not willing to take. There are just too many sightings of them involving multiple witnesses, physical trace evidence, military encounters, admissions by top officials of their existence (astronauts, government officials, scientists, every day people, etc.). In my home town alone, I know of at least four people who have seen the large, silent black triangles. Two of them saw it up close and personal, and were severely effected by the experience. In fact a former Lockheed CEO, Ben Rich, admitted that not only do UFOs exist, but that some of them aren't "ours". I'm pretty sure Ben Rich had access to more information regarding this subject than you or I could ever dream of, and that was his conclusion. So even if you did want to build a case that some of these craft aren't "ours", then you could present a pretty good case. On the other hand, you could assume that all of these astronauts, government officials, military officers and personnel including generals, Lockheed CEOs, scientists and countless civilians are all crazy, and you're the only sane one. Sorry, but I'm not willing to make that bet. The UFO phenomenon is not as "inconclusive" as some people want to make it out to be.

You seem to be having a conversation with someone that isn't there. Nobody is denying the "existence" of UFO's, or even that some might in fact be structured and piloted. What is in question is the arbitrary characterization of them as being extraterrestrial in nature, for which there is no credible evidence.

Brighter
I'm not making the assumption that these craft are piloted by aliens (and if I suggested that, could you point out where I did?).

As quoted above, here you make that very suggestion.

Brighter
In fact a former Lockheed CEO, Ben Rich, admitted that not only do UFOs exist, but that some of them aren't "ours". I'm pretty sure Ben Rich had access to more information regarding this subject than you or I could ever dream of, and that was his conclusion. So even if you did want to build a case that some of these craft aren't "ours", then you could present a pretty good case. On the other hand, you could assume that all of these astronauts, government officials, military officers and personnel including generals, Lockheed CEOs, scientists and countless civilians are all crazy, and you're the only sane one. Sorry, but I'm not willing to make that bet. The UFO phenomenon is not as "inconclusive" as some people want to make it out to be.

Brighter
In my home town alone, I know of at least four people who have seen the large, silent black triangles. Two of them saw it up close and personal, and were severely effected by the experience.

It might surprise you to learn that my father and two of my closest friends have also witnessed such craft, and I do not doubt their testimony in the least. But still there is no evidence to connect what they saw with "Alien intelligence".

Brighter

ZetaRediculian
Now if you take one proof positive piece of solitary evidence, you will indeed paint a picture that reflects reality but putting all your non conclusive evidence together and saying its aliens only reflects your imagination.

You seem to be having a conversation with someone that isn't there. I'm not making the assumption that these craft are piloted by aliens (and if I suggested that, could you point out where I did?). I'm more interested in whether the craft themselves exist, and while the evidence is technically inconclusive (for you or I at least) regarding even their existence, I think there is sufficient evidence in place to strongly suggest the reality of objectively real, structured, seemingly manufactured craft. To say the craft themselves exist entirely in peoples' imaginations is, I think, a stretch I'm not willing to take. There are just too many sightings of them involving multiple witnesses, physical trace evidence, military encounters, admissions by top officials of their existence (astronauts, government officials, scientists, every day people, etc.). In my home town alone, I know of at least four people who have seen the large, silent black triangles. Two of them saw it up close and personal, and were severely effected by the experience. In fact a former Lockheed CEO, Ben Rich, admitted that not only do UFOs exist, but that some of them aren't "ours". I'm pretty sure Ben Rich had access to more information regarding this subject than you or I could ever dream of, and that was his conclusion. So even if you did want to build a case that some of these craft aren't "ours", then you could present a pretty good case. On the other hand, you could assume that all of these astronauts, government officials, military officers and personnel including generals, Lockheed CEOs, scientists and countless civilians are all crazy, and you're the only sane one. Sorry, but I'm not willing to make that bet. The UFO phenomenon is not as "inconclusive" as some people want to make it out to be.

edit on 20-2-2014 by Brighter because: (no reason given)

Though i will say we would be amazed at whats being developed i want to warn you about quoting Ben Rich this was supposedly a deathbed confession released in a documentary. Conveniently with death bed confessions the person isnt around to dispute the claimant. Therefore they hold little weight because i can claim hoover told me all about his meeting with aliens. The person could also misinterpret what they say as well. For example he might have said some are not even ours. How ever maybe he meant others belong to Boeing phantom works. Every aircraft manufacturer has their own research facilities and all of them have projects you wouldnt believe. For example rumor has it that Boeing is about to make the helicopter obsolete they have a drive thats silent can be vectored in any direction and to anyone watching would look just like an Alien ship right out of sci fi. Those flying cars are almost here this thing is supposedly flown with a joystick making it easy to fly. Oh and In that same documentary they tried to credit microprocessors to the roswell craft. Unfortunately the advancement of microprocessors is well documented. We built them not aliens we started with vacuum tubes and worked our way up. Ive never understood where this supposed alien science came in when something is invented scientists document there work and you can follow their research. But i digress back to the thread.

draknoir2


Nobody is denying the "existence" of UFO's, or even that some might in fact be structured and piloted. What is in question is the arbitrary characterization of them as being extraterrestrial in nature, for which there is no credible evidence.

I know this has been to death elsewhere but I am genuinely curious.

Above being the case then I assume you believe them all to be terrestrial, which for some sightings there appears to be no credible evidence !

Misidentification, hoax, psi ops, natural occurrence, hallucination etc etc obviously account for many - is it your assertion that they account for all or simply that they manifest from an unknown terrestrial presence ?

chunder

draknoir2


Nobody is denying the "existence" of UFO's, or even that some might in fact be structured and piloted. What is in question is the arbitrary characterization of them as being extraterrestrial in nature, for which there is no credible evidence.

I know this has been to death elsewhere but I am genuinely curious.

Above being the case then I assume you believe them all to be terrestrial, which for some sightings there appears to be no credible evidence !

Misidentification, hoax, psi ops, natural occurrence, hallucination etc etc obviously account for many - is it your assertion that they account for all or simply that they manifest from an unknown terrestrial presence ?

I make no assertions or assumptions as to their nature, or even the credibility of the eyewitnesses. What would be the point?

reply to post by Brighter


No, I read what you said correctly and your response confirms that. I stand by my comments.

So even if you did want to build a case that some of these craft aren't "ours", then you could present a pretty good case. On the other hand, you could assume that all of these astronauts, government officials, military officers and personnel including generals, Lockheed CEOs, scientists and countless civilians are all crazy, and you're the only sane one.

and this is exactly the kind of "lump it all into one" garbage that makes a great imaginative story built on misleading information. Lets start with your first "lump". Which astronauts?

ZetaRediculian
reply to post by Brighter

 

No, I read what you said correctly and your response confirms that. I stand by my comments.

So even if you did want to build a case that some of these craft aren't "ours", then you could present a pretty good case. On the other hand, you could assume that all of these astronauts, government officials, military officers and personnel including generals, Lockheed CEOs, scientists and countless civilians are all crazy, and you're the only sane one.

and this is exactly the kind of "lump it all into one" garbage that makes a great imaginative story built on misleading information. Lets start with your first "lump". Which astronauts?

edit on 20-2-2014 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)

I understand how frustrating it must be that countless individuals of the highest level of reliability have all but confirmed what you (for whatever reason) are uncomfortable coming to terms with. And if your best argument is to make a sweeping judgment that the entire evidence base is "garbage", then to be quite honest, I don't think there's much hope for rational discourse here.

Brighter
I'm not making the assumption that these craft are piloted by aliens (and if I suggested that, could you point out where I did?).

draknoir2
As quoted above, here you make that very suggestion.

Let's not get preoccupied toying with words again, drak. I stated that I wasn't making such an assumption. I have no problem speculating, however.

draknoir2
I make no assertions or assumptions as to their nature, or even the credibility of the eyewitnesses. What would be the point?

I assume that the eyewitnesses are generally trying to be truthful and describe something they've experienced to the best of their ability. I will believe people when they say they saw a UFO. But that doesn't really get them anything. A congratulations? A cookie?

Even if they met aliens who told them they were aliens, I would have to remain skeptical. Aliens are notorious liars.

reply to post by Brighter

And if your best argument is to make a sweeping judgment that the entire evidence base is "garbage", then to be quite honest, I don't think there's much hope for rational discourse here.

I didn't say the entire evidence base is garbage. In fact, its not. What IS garbage is how its represented and which is exactly what I quoted from your post.
This is garbage:

So even if you did want to build a case that some of these craft aren't "ours", then you could present a pretty good case.On the other hand, you could assume that all of these astronauts, government officials, military officers and personnel including generals, Lockheed CEOs, scientists and countless civilians are all crazy, and you're the only sane one.

Not only is it garbage, you have a nice straw man argument to boot.

So we have to assume they are crazy? Why? People report UFO's. Some believe they are aliens, others describe them as "appearing" intelligently controlled. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with peoples personal beliefs and subjective accounts. You just cant make a good case for aliens with this type of data.

Not one confirmed alien has turned up in all the countless testimony. However, there is pretty good knowledge base of all the things that "seemed" like aliens and "appeared" like aliens that turned out NOT to be aliens. So what do you do with this data? Do you throw it out because it doesn't help support your "pretty good case for aliens" or do you use this information to help put things in perspective? Obviously you toss it out because its never mentioned. Apparently you have no problem making sweeping generalizations about "All of these astronauts" that you imply that I think are crazy. What astronauts? How many? 20? 15? One? Zero?

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


Let's begin by hearing your explanation for this case:

Ariel School, Zimbabwe Incident

If you're going to maintain the position that there is no good case to be put forward for the idea that at least some of these UFOs aren't "ours", then you need to provide an unequivocably solid explanation for at least this case, backed up by sufficient evidence to support your position.

Oh and by the way, just to preempt your perfunctory 'psychological' explanation, don't forget to address Dr. John Mack's assessment of the case, who happened to be a Professor at Harvard Medical School, and have attained his M.D. from Harvard as well).

And if you can't provide a sufficient explanation for this case, then I would advise that you begin taking this subject a little more seriously.

reply to post by Brighter


And you think this proves what? Kids are easily manipulated.And the reporting was wrong some of the kids didnt see the alien others didn't see the craft. Drawings were different of aliens and craft its called mass hysteria. Something scared the kids they run inside and tell the teachers and the story got bigger and bigger. Kids have a great imagination. Especially when talking to a UFO researcher who unwittingly can help them guide their stories.The more attention they got the bigger the story became including by the end the aliens supposedly gave them several messages. People are very unreliable witnesses are memories can be alterd by later events. They can also be altered by others telling their story. I wonder if it wasnt set up by the school itself originally and it got out of hand. Wouldnt be the first time teachers came up with a dumb idea of faking a UFO. I remember reading an article where parents got mad because the school faked a UFO encounter for creative writing.

Brighter

Brighter
I'm not making the assumption that these craft are piloted by aliens (and if I suggested that, could you point out where I did?).

draknoir2
As quoted above, here you make that very suggestion.

Let's not get preoccupied toying with words again, drak. I stated that I wasn't making such an assumption. I have no problem speculating, however.

Toying with words?

You asked where you made that suggestion and I responded. You should be thanking me.


It helps not to deny saying what you said in the very same post.

Brighter

Let's not get preoccupied toying with words again, drak. .

It's logical trickery!!!!