Real Ark of the Covenant of Wood NOT Gilded!

reply to post by GrislyAddams


As for Adam, according to many rabbis Adam and Eve were the first white homo sapiens sapiens. Which fits nicely with records showing the Caucasian white man came around when Creation supposedly happened about 6000 years ago around the dawn of modern civilisation.

GrislyAddams
I'm willing to be open minded about this and do some research on my own.

In my opinion it's a little like Genesis 1 where God makes man and then later makes Adam and Eve. Most people gloss over that first creation and then are left with no explanation for whom Cain was afraid of when he was banished.

Likewise, this two ark theory makes sense for a people who lived in tents. Thieves would have been a constant threat.

Questions, though, what was in the tabernacle? The real one or the fake one? Both? Is that why only one man was allowed in the inner sanctum?

Such things make a lot more sense when the fact is acknowledged that the Bible is a political compilation of multiple texts, copies of texts, borrowed texts, stolen texts, fraudulent texts, etc. composted by different peoples over myriad centuries rather than some kind of internally coherent composition penned via amanuensis by a specific deity for a specific purpose.

At least, they do to me personally; your mileage may vary.

reply to post by Gryphon66


No, I see what you're saying, it's just that the proposed theory makes sense from a couple different angles that don't require belief in a book; just an understanding of clever humans. It's very ninja. Literally. There are stories in old Japan that have a similar truthiness where ninja would make a perfect copy of something and switch them out.

Utnapisjtim
reply to post by hounddoghowlie

 

Utnapisjtim
reply to post by hounddoghowlie

 

atleast in the story leading to a handful of golden rodents being added to the ark inventory.

Wasn't it frogs and not mice?

edit on 8-2-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: Added "reply to"

no it was mice.

1 Sam 6:3-4 KJV
3 And they said, If ye send away the ark of the God of Israel, send it not empty; but in any wise return him a trespass offering: then ye shall be healed, and it shall be known to you why his hand is not removed from you.
4 Then said they, What shall be the trespass offering which we shall return to him? They answered, Five golden emerods, and five golden mice, according to the number of the lords of the Philistines: for one plague was on you all, and on your lords

That's an interesting quote and is a reminder of why a person could read the Bible for the rest of their life.

I've read the whole thing several times, in different ways, and that quote looked new to me.

hounddoghowlie

no it was mice.

The Hebrew word used is 'akbar' Kindof demonstrates the enimity between Arabs and Jews I suppose. Much like how the Canaanite deity named 'Baal Sebul' (Lord of Rising) was pervaded into 'Baal Sebub' (Lord of Flies) by the Jahvists, changing the meaning completely.

I am not really satisified about the first set/pair of Tables of Stone which Moses shattered in anger & in disgust of the Israelites


Moses or the Priests really had to scour the area to recover every piece & fragment of those tables of stone containing the words of the Law & the Covenant with the people...
otherwise leaving the shattered fragments of God's Law written in stone getting trampled under the feet of anyone present would amount to 'Dis-Respecting' the 'Word' ( remember that the 'Word' became 'Flesh' )


so. the actual stone tables, that were inscribed with the Laws & the Covenant (which possibly means Laser Cut into granite)
actually turns into a prophetic drama....along with being a physical reality

the Stone inscribed with the 10 commandments AKA; the 'Word' was destroyed
just as the 'Word' that became 'Flesh'... i.e. Jesus reenacted the same story-line as the 10 commandments, rejected and destroyed


i think the Mt Sinai 2 tablets drama is working on two different levels...both the immediate reality of the event and as a prophetic 'code' of what will happen to a future Messiah


note in the Link that in Revelation the Arc-of-the-Covenant is presently up in Heaven in the Throne Room of God

Revelation 11:19 ESV
Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

www.openbible.info...



remember too that the Arc also doubles as a Seat (or even a Footstool)


there's a lot of double & triple meanings for the Arc/Covenant, as a functional piece of furniture or commode, perhaps even as a metaphor for an osstuary (bone box)

reply to post by St Udio


Aaron just designed a golden calf, it was Moses who actually broke the law.

Literally.

Utnapisjtim


Aaron just designed a golden calf, it was Moses who actually broke the law.

was Moshe=Moses from the tribe of Judah or was he an Israelite
Aaron directed the golden calf be constructed he did not merely 'design' it
so they both 'broke' with the Law & the Covenant... but in different ways... study that point & see if it all isn't prescient of the arrival & ministry of the Anointed One some many centuries in the future... there is a tapestry woven...but it takes a wise person to 'see' the designs being presented in a 'coded' way

reply to post by St Udio


Moses and his brother Aaron were Levites. Had they lived today they would probably carry the surname Cohen or Levi or similar. The Cohenim is "The Tribe that Never was Lost". One can trace their ancestry back more than 100 generations or more than 3300 years (traditionally) to Aaron, Moses' (Mosche's) brother. Moses was married to a Kenite, a decendant of Cain.

The truth is that there were several Arks, in those days boxes with holy objects were brought into battle to help your side win, Egyptians had them, Babylonians, Assyrians etc

The Hebrews has more then one God too but in later time they turned all these gods into one and all the arks into one

As it turns out there are two arks of two covenants written on two pairs of slates received on two different mountains. One pair, I think, shows the Moral Decalogue (Ex 20:2–17 and De 5:6–21) that was written upon the pair Moses broke and possibly stored the remains from inside the golden ark (spontaneous uranium reaction? Static uranium capacitor/battery? Oy vey!)— and the other pair, containing the Ritual Decalogue (Ex 34:11-26) which is contained in the pitched wooden ark?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Few know about the second Ark, the one that contained the actual slates God himself wrote the commandments upon, and not the two Moses broke when he saw Aaron had made the golden calf:

The ark of testimony is a good study and controversial matter. Good post Utnapisjtim.

Just as there were two distinct trips up the mount, so there could be two distinct containers of the commands. Most people are shown Moses carrying the two slates of engravings but in reality they were carried in the ark by the Levitical family of Kohath with the slates in the Ark. According to tradition this was the second trip and second set of commands.

So it could have been that Moses did carry the first set and the ark was instigated to prevent another mishap as being broken again. Nevertheless of tradition, it is said in the Soncino b Talmud Yoma 72b that there were three arks made which were that the center wood ark was placed inside the gold inlaid ark and both were then placed inside of the outer gold inlaid Ark. All in all there were then two gold inlaid Arks and one wooden Ark with the wooden Ark being the center Ark.
www.jewishencyclopedia.com...

Talmud - Mas. Yoma 72b
Rehaba said in the name of Rab Judah: Three arks did Bezalel make: the middle one of wood, nine [handbreadths] high; the inner one of gold, eight high, the outer one of gold,9 a little more than ten high. But it was taught: A little more than eleven [high]?- That is no contradiction: the one opinion agrees with the view that the thickness thereof10 was one handbreadth, the other was in accord with the view that the thickness thereof was not one handbreadth.11 And what purpose served the ‘little more’?12 — It is the space of the crown.13

R. Johanan said: There were three crowns: that of the altar, that of the ark, and that of the table. The one of the altar Aaron deserved and he received it. The one of the ark, David deserved and received. The one of the ark is still lying and whosoever wants to take it, may come and take it.14 Perhaps you might think it is of little account, therefore the text reads: By me kings reign.15

In Yoma 72b, and Yer. Sheḳ. vi. 49d, it is recorded that Bezaleel made three arks which he put inside of one another. The outside and inside ones were made of gold, and measured respectively ten cubits and a fraction and eight cubits, while the middle one was of wood and measured nine cubits. Again, according to one opinion (Yer. Sheḳ. vi. 49c), there were two arks travelling with the Israelites in the wilderness. One contained the Law, in addition to the tablets of the Ten Commandments, and the other the tables of stone which Moses had broken. The one that contained the Law was placed in the "tent of meeting"; the other, containing the broken tables, accompanied the Israelites in their various excursions, and sometimes appeared on the battle-field. According to still another view, (l.c.), there was only one Ark, and it contained both the Law and the broken tables (Ber. 8b; B. B. 14b). R. Johanan in the name of Simon ben YoḦai, basing his opinion on the repetition of the word "name" ( ) in II Sam. vi. 2, maintains that the Ark contained the Ineffable Name and all other epithets of God (B. B. l.c.; Num. R. iv. 20).

In Deut. x. 1-5 a rather different account of the making of the Ark is given. Moses is made to say that he constructed the Ark before going upon Mount Sinai to receive the second set of tables. The charge of carrying the Ark and the rest of the holy utensils was given to the family of Kohath, of the tribe of Levi; but they were not to touch any of the holy things until after the latter had been covered by Aaron (Num. iv. 2-15).

As said before this is a great study and even the most Jewish scholars have opinions of difference.

a reply to: Seede

And I expect you are aware of the two sets of ten commandments?

There is the usual moral code in two more or less identical versions of course, but then there is another set of 10 laws, and to top it off, they are the only ten commandments to be called the ten commandments in the Hebrew text:

The Covenant Renewed

[Covenant expectancy] 10 And he said, “Behold, I am making a covenant. Before all your people I will do marvels, such as have not been created in all the earth or in any nation. And all the people among whom you are shall see the work of the LORD, for it is an awesome thing that I will do with you. 11 “Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

[First commandment] 12 Take care, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you go, lest it become a snare in your midst. 13 You shall tear down their altars and break their pillars and cut down their Asherim 14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), 15 lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and when they whore after their gods and sacrifice to their gods and you are invited, you eat of his sacrifice, 16 and you take of their daughters for your sons, and their daughters whore after their gods and make your sons whore after their gods.

[Second commandment] 17 “You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal.

[Third commandment] 18 “You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the time appointed in the month Abib, for in the month Abib you came out from Egypt.

[Fourth commandment] 19 All that open the womb are mine, all your male livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep.

[Fifth commandment] 20 The firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. And none shall appear before me empty-handed.

[Sixth commandment] 21 “Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest. In plowing time and in harvest you shall rest.

[Seventh commandment] 22 You shall observe the Feast of Weeks, the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year’s end. 23 Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel. 24 For I will cast out nations before you and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land, when you go up to appear before the LORD your God three times in the year.

[Eighth commandment] 25 “You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with anything leavened, or let the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover remain until the morning.

[Ninth commandment] 26 The best of the firstfruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the LORD your God.

[Tenth commandment] You shall not boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.”

[Covenant summarised + Proof of divine presence] 27 And the LORD said to Moses, “Write these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
What will it be: More gold than you can carry, or the word of God, written by God himself?

Gold leaf is very light and adds very little to the weight of something. It's not really even that expensive, since you can find it in every bottle of Goldschlager booze.

a reply to: Blue Shift

«All the gold that was used for the work, in all the construction of the sanctuary, the gold from the offering, was twenty-nine talents and 730 shekels, by the shekel of the sanctuary.» [ESV] Exodus 38:24

==> A talent was about 75 pounds or 34 kilograms; a shekel was about 2/5 ounce or 11 grams

==> That's about a METRIC TON OF GOLD! Gold leaf? Not quite.

==> And with a current gold price of about £23 000 per kilo, we're talking about roughly £23 MILLIONS worth of gold! Not all of this was used on the ark, but the mercy seat was thick with gold and the cherubim were solids slabs of gold, you wouldn't be able to lift the lid off alone if you wanted.