Utah Petroglyphs in light of the Skinwalker Phenomena.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


I understand that your OP was more or less based on the concept of archetypes as they relate to the skinwalker ranch myth (I personally don't believe much of that tall tale), but I still think you are drawing certain conclusions based on how you interpret certain images.

For instance, you remarked on the triangular formation of these shapes and sort of implied this is linked to triangle craft seen at the skinwalker ranch, but I see a depiction of ceremonial dress. The triangular portion itself could be a type of vest that covers the torso. I've highlighted the belt and necklaces, and haven't bothered with the head dresses as I think that part is obvious:



In this next image, you sort of claimed these were fridge beings, and that the animal depicted is cattle of some type, but I see people drawn in a primitive fashion (one of which appears to be holding a snake), and the animal to me looks like a dog. Viewed in that context, their sizes in relation to one another suddenly make much more sense:



The next image, you claimed to be a depiction of shadow people, but there is no reason to make that leap. What we are seeing is a relief image of people (you can even make out clothes on some of them):



So I think my point is still valid. It's all in how you choose to interpret these images. It's fun and can be interesting to try and pick out oddities or link them to the supernatural but I don't think there is any reason to do so in this case. Why should we jump to the conclusion that these petroglyphs depict anything other than mundane events, ceremonial dress, and spiritual and cultural beliefs? I see no reason to make the leap in linking them to triangular ufo's coming out of portals in the sky or any of the other events that supposedly took place at the skinwalker ranch.

reply to post by darrellabbott


I'm not sure why your posts keep getting ignored - I found that info you linked absolutely fascinating. To me, it explains without a doubt why we see very similar images of the "squatting man" with the dots on either side, from all over the world. It could also explain the early images of the "tree of life". This must have been a HUGE plasma discharge to be seen over the world, and I could imagine it would spark many, many images on rocks and cave walls. Very interesting...

reply to post by DeadSeraph


When the natives did depict themselves this tended toward natural scaling, often seen on horseback with bow and arrow hunting;



I would think it obvious those large scale figures do not represent the natives themselves, even though they might be adorned in the status trappings of that culture, in some sense they are Deities. I do suggest these relate to the forms seen in the Skinwalker narrative, the triangular shaped craft, which would have been seen as sentient beings of some type, and that have been suggested as leaving triangulated circular impressions upon the ground, so for my part i would be interested in the lower section of the figures seen here for example, and be thinking more in terms of landing gear than weird alien feet.





I can't see anything in the examples you suggest are simply the people themselves that would make your case, those stylized forms can't be seen in anyway relating to the everyday lifestyle and customs of such. The context there is always going to be spiritual in some way, but there is always correspondence between Divine archetypes and human form, so for example this image below might be taken as people enjoying drawing their hands;



However it represents the eye in the hand, or the hole in the sky located at the constellation of Orion, which the mothman creates a spiral vortex in order to transcend and which the spider spins the web that guards, so all sorts of complex ideas can be attatched to the seemingly mundane, and the status trappings the figures wear will have such connotations.



The difficulty here lies in correlating that which has been described and experienced within the context of native American spiritual traditions, i don't think it's helpful to simply try and minimize what is seen.

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Rosinitiate

 

You do realize that many native american tribes utilized head dresses with horns?

Yes I do realize that. Did it ever occur to you that maybe they were trying to emulate something/someone?

Like for instance a strange visitor with a breathing apparatus, the horns and feathers are symbolic.

Rosinitiate
reply to post by hiii_98

 

I respect your opinion about not looking into petroglyphs for "answers" but what is your take on the petroglyphs that were dynamited. It seems as though there was no rhyme or reason for said dynamiting other than to keep the bigger picture from us.

What is your understanding of the dynamiting of petroglyphs?

There is a documentary called "Angels, Aliens & UFO's (available on Netflix) at 32 minutes into the documentary it starts talking about the dynamiting of petroglyphs. Might be worth checking out. I tried to find it on YouTube but found it available also on amazon for 1.99

edit on 7-2-2014 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)

I saw that documentary some months ago and enjoyed it (did you recommend that to me?). Many times there are very down-to-earth explanations for what seems like extraordinary events. I just want to make it clear we do not have a frame of reference to property and definitively interpret the early Pheblo natives artwork, and they do have their own unique style (like most cultures) which can easily be misinterpreted due to its modern day obscurity. I am far more intrigued by modern day clues than rehashing ancient dead ends.

Even the dynamited rocks "could" have a very mundane explanation for them. Not everyone holds the reverence we do for ancient rock art. Or it was a cover up? I do not have the answers, just want to be grounded and rational before leaping to conclusions.

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Rosinitiate

 

You do realize that many native american tribes utilized head dresses with horns?

I really think this is a stretch. People can read whatever they like into such carvings or cave paintings. The reality is that we don't know what the creators intent was. They could be recording ceremonial dress and rituals (which is what most of these images look like to me), dreams, visions induced by hallucinogenic herbs/plants/fungi, depictions of their religious and/or spiritual ideas and myths, etc. Combine all of that with the fact that we are dealing with a primitive people who had no advanced artistic skills, and the box like figures really aren't all that remarkable. In fact, that's how I used to draw people when I was 4. It's nothing but wild speculation to suggest these are primitive depictions of aliens.

For instance, this is what I see:

This clearly looks like ceremonial attire to me. In the next image, we see almost identical features: Head dresses, Necklaces, earrings, etc, with one difference:

We can see the bottom part of the figures more clearly. What are they wearing? Loin cloths. Why would aliens be running around on a foreign planet wearing necklaces and loin cloths?

edit on 8-2-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-2-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

I agree, I don't see refrigerator alien monsters I see traditional dress attire. No more than us crudely drawing a stickman with a modern day suit and tie.

reply to post by hiii_98

You probably need to clean up some crap from your website. Not to mention the highly-interpretive "experiences" you relate in your book.

Video & blurb for another very "speculative" and interpretive "event" found on your website

this is one of many many flying noiseless drones on the ranch. It is working with the military personel who are patroling the ranch. It had detected investigators early in the night and was emitting extremely bright pulsating flashes. It started out in the trees and ended up resting on the ground about 150 yards away. You may notice the light actually moving as if it had shape/form near the end of the clip. NIDS/ navy security personel and dogs eventaully arrived on scene where the spybee was being filmed.

I understand what you are saying here, Ryan, but what's good for the goose...

reply to post by Rosinitiate


yes, I've wondered about the significance of horned entities in Ute artwork myself... considering how prevalent they are, it does make you wonder, doesn't it?

some more photos!

photo.1

photo.2

photo.3
(the earrings on the two smiling figures almost end up looking like rosy cheeks to me)

photo.4

photo.5
(yet another horned figure for your interests)

photo.6

photo.7

photo.8

photo.9

photo.10
(now, this fella is definitely NOT wearing a loincloth, alien or not)

photo.11

I keep seeing the word "primitive" tossed about. Why is that, exactly?

The point is that to a culture without the vocabulary to express, say, a flying triangle, or whatever, they are going to express that visual in terms of things they already relate to.

Now I am not saying that these people are depicting chupas cutting cattle in half NECESSARILY, but what I AM saying is that considering the modern reports from the area, and looking at the artistic renderings, such a conclusion is not the least bit outlandish.

Yes, you will be able to interpret it in a mundane manner if you like, but that is because these people are likely assigning attributes that relate the thing in question to their culture.
This is actually a requisite of a glyph type language system.

There isn't a symbol for "nuts and bolts flying machine".

So in the end, everyone here knows this argument will go nowhere.

But let's not be disingenuous, shall we?

reply to post by JayinAR


Nobody is being disingenuous. Why jump to fantastic conclusions when there are perfectly reasonable explanations available? As for the assertion that any of these petroglyphs depict cattle being mutilated, Native Americans didn't keep cattle until the 18th or 19th century, and were nomadic hunter gatherers prior to that.

In the one particular image in question (where some claim to see fridge beings and a mutilated cow), Why can the animal in question not be a dog? It's tail is curved up like a dog (no deer or "cattle" I've seen have tails like that), it's the right size compared to the figures beside it to be a dog, and the gap in it's body could be a harness, or possibly just a portion of the rock face that was either chipped away or didn't get painted due to surface abnormalities. Why do we need to jump to cattle mutilations and fridge demons? Is that really the most likely explanation?

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I wasn't suggesting you were being disingenuous. Just trying to keep it that way.

If we take skinwalker at face value (spooky) (which I know you consider it a "tall tale") (which I find odd because there has literally been a panel of scientists from aerospace engineers, computer scientists/astronomers, to government reps sent to investigate, but I digress), and accept it as spooky, or paranormal, then we must be willing to accept spooky connections such as the one Kantz has potentially uncovered in this thread.



ETA: In other words, I wasn't speaking to you or referring to you at all.
But your attempt to dominate the conversation is duely noted.

JayinAR
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

ETA: In other words, I wasn't speaking to you or referring to you at all.
But your attempt to dominate the conversation is duely noted.

edit on 8-2-2014 by JayinAR because: (no reason given)

I wasn't aware that differing points of view weren't welcome, and that any efforts to present alternative theories to the OP would be viewed as an effort to "dominate the conversation". With that, I'll take my leave. Have a wonderful day

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Please check your U2U and accept my apologies for any misunderstanding.

reply to post by SoldierCarryingHashbrowns



The horns will simply indicate 'power', horned Deities or Demons are found in plentiful abundance around the world, or Kings and warriors wearing horned helmets, it's a representational symbolic attribute, all they really indicate in this context is those beings were seen as powerful.

The phenomena that is represented here cannot be understood simply by looking at the trimmings, especially if one isn't even aware of what they in themselves indicate...

Did anyone notice mushroom motifs on the triangular "crafts"?

The so called "horned" humanoid petroglyphs are possible examples of antennas.

reply to post by The GUT


the second video is the real deal (for whatever that's worth). The first video is too interpretive and has personal meaning only to me.

this is one of many many flying noiseless drones on the ranch. It is working with the military personel who are patroling the ranch. It had detected investigators early in the night and was emitting extremely bright pulsating flashes. It started out in the trees and ended up resting on the ground about 150 yards away. You may notice the light actually moving as if it had shape/form near the end of the clip. NIDS/ navy security personel and dogs eventaully arrived on scene where the spybee was being filmed.

my knowledge of the matter increases daily , I believe I posted that several years ago. I made several statements then that I now disagree with. It is not working with the military (Bigelow's people) in the traditional sense. The whole Navy bit also is not true. I posted information I was told by other investigators at the time. The guards typically have a Army background, but are not currently enlisted.