Nibiru/Planet X The Thread...(Part Deux)

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DJW001
Here is a challenge to those who keep claiming that the ancients knew about Nibiru/Planet X. Post a photograph of a primary source. Not a quotation made up by Sitchin, or something allegedly channeled from an alien, but a photo of a Babylonian or Sumerian tablet that says that there are more than five planets. It should be easy. If you cannot, stop making that ridiculous claim. After all, astrologers never used more than five planets until the 20th century, and astrology goes back to the Babylonians!

Good question. Well, just off the top of my head without doing any further research I would posit the numerous "winged disc" or "winged sun" images that are common in ancient cultures. These do not have anything to do with the Sun, as there are many images that clearly depict the Sun as itself and not winged at all. They clearly represent something else, and it can be argued but of course not proven at this point these winged discs represent Nibiru and its associated red dust cloud.



As I said, not proof of anything, but certainly intriguing and lending weight to the argument that the ancients either knew about or experienced Nibiru/Planet X. And of course this is just a tiny piece of the puzzle, like the problem of angular momentum I mentioned in a post above.

NibiruWarrior
reply to post by DJW001

 

Challenge accepted:

What about the winged disk carvings in granite above many sacred Egyptian locations? I don't need to provide a picture of this as there are so many out there that are verified as genuine.

Also, Sumerian cuneiform tablets were created last week were they?

Lots of ancient carvings of our solar system with another planet in the mix, explain the other planet?

Pictures weren't around pre-18th century, so it is kind of hard to come by anything not shot in the last 2 or 3 centuries!

Silly and petty challenge.

There are no authenticated Egyptian tablets/writings/etc that have anything to do with Planet X , as far as the Sumerian stuff, again that's Stichen's mistranslation/misunderstanding of what they really say...

As far as ancient carvings with "extra Planets" etc, they weren't advanced enough to determine whether something was a planet or a moon way back when, as we have become more and more technologically advanced we can see what each object is, and also determine what things may have looked like, nothing that is out there, verifies in any way, that there was a PLanet X/Nibiru that comes through the solar system and smashes the Earth...

NibiruWarrior
reply to post by DJW001

 

Here you go doubting Thomas:

Analysis of Cylinder Seal VA 243:

www.thelivingmoon.com...

Plenty of pictures for you to peruse here as well (including the original photograph of a Sumerian carved "Winged Dark Star":

talesfromthelou.wordpress.com...

Not so clever now are you!

Ah! The infamous cylinder VA 243.

Sitchin bases his arguments on his personal interpretations of pre-Nubian and Sumerian texts, and the seal VA 243. Sitchin wrote that these ancient civilizations knew of a twelfth planet, when in fact they only knew five. Hundreds of Sumerian astronomical seals and calendars have been decoded and recorded, and the total count of planets on each seal has been five. Seal VA 243 has 12 dots that Sitchin identifies as planets. When translated, seal VA 243 reads "You're his Servant" which is now thought to be a message from a nobleman to a servant. According to semitologist Michael S. Heiser, the so-called sun on Seal VA 243 is not the Sumerian symbol for the sun but is a star, and the dots are also stars. The symbol on seal VA 243 has no resemblance to the hundreds of documented Sumerian sun symbols.

Emphasis mine.

Sitchin Translations

When looking in the sky, with out the aid of any type of optics, there are 5 planets visible to the naked eye: Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.

I would think that if they were able to see more than that, it certainly would have been documented in their astronomical seals, and of course the symbol for the sun that they used would have been used in VA 243. But it's not.

PlanetXisHERE

DJW001
Here is a challenge to those who keep claiming that the ancients knew about Nibiru/Planet X. Post a photograph of a primary source. Not a quotation made up by Sitchin, or something allegedly channeled from an alien, but a photo of a Babylonian or Sumerian tablet that says that there are more than five planets. It should be easy. If you cannot, stop making that ridiculous claim. After all, astrologers never used more than five planets until the 20th century, and astrology goes back to the Babylonians!

Good question. Well, just off the top of my head without doing any further research I would posit the numerous "winged disc" or "winged sun" images that are common in ancient cultures. These do not have anything to do with the Sun, as there are many images that clearly depict the Sun as itself and not winged at all. They clearly represent something else, and it can be argued but of course not proven at this point these winged discs represent Nibiru and its associated red dust cloud.

As I said, not proof of anything, but certainly intriguing and lending weight to the argument that the ancients either knew about or experienced Nibiru/Planet X. And of course this is just a tiny piece of the puzzle, like the problem of angular momentum I mentioned in a post above.

And you know they have nothing to do with the Sun how?

For a long long time, ancients thought Jupiter was another star because of how bright it shone in the ancient sky to them, Same goes for Venus, again, if they have nothing to do with the Sun, they could in fact have something to do with the bright "morning star" that we still see to this very day.

The ancients weren't as "astute" on certain things as we would all love them to be. For all the "technology" they possessed (Which admittedly for the time, would make them about as advanced as we are now) they still lacked a basic understanding of how planets and stars worked, and didn't understand if what they were seeing was indeed a star or another planet.

The Egyptian carvings showing a disc with wings was indicative of the God Ra, a winged deity that travelled across the sky in his golden and shining chariot every day to bring life (in the form of light and heat) to the world. That went into an even more in depth depiction when the Egyptians combined two of their gods together as Amun-Ra , and all of the wing-ed discs were from around that time period.

This is not proof of Nibiru/PlanetX, it was a purely religious phenomena, and one indicative of their belief system, and a rather simplified representation of their God in flight....

This is proven, scientific fact. Why it is even still up for debate is way beyond me.

reply to post by vkey08


This information is wrong, they knew Pluto was blue and could not have possibly known that. We only found out less than 100 years ago. Also, Sitchin's translations are said to be correct by people who know about the language, people have come afterwards to try and discredit him and his life's work, but do they know more about the subject than Sitchin? The answer is no, abnd they are probably on the payroll. After all, why wait till he's dead if your new information is infallible, the author of the original works can not argue back then can he...

reply to post by NibiruWarrior

Here you go doubting Thomas:

Analysis of Cylinder Seal VA 243:

www.thelivingmoon.com...

Seriously? How many 'planets' do you count here?



Or here?



Is it possible that your source doesn't know what he is talking about? Those are not planets surrounding the Sun on those cylinder seals; if they were, the Sumerians were highly inconsistent about their number, weren't they?

Plenty of pictures for you to peruse here as well (including the original photograph of a Sumerian carved "Winged Dark Star":

talesfromthelou.wordpress.com...

Yes, it is a carving of the deity Shumash. So what? Have you ever seen a spacecraft with feathered wings? Seriously?

Not so clever now are you!

Please drop the attitude and educate yourself:

Ancient astronomical knowledge.

Ancient Sumerian language.

A genuine Sumerian scholar looks at Sitchin.

NibiruWarrior
reply to post by vkey08

 

This information is wrong, they knew Pluto was blue and could not have possibly known that. We only found out less than 100 years ago. Also, Sitchin's translations are said to be correct by people who know about the language, people have come afterwards to try and discredit him and his life's work, but do they know more about the subject than Sitchin? The answer is no, and they are probably on the payroll. After all, why wait till he's dead if your new information is infallible, the author of the original works can not argue back then can he...

I have yet to read anyone at a major university, scholarly center, or even historian of good standing claim that Stichen's translations are correct. As far as pluto being blue, they did not "know" for a fact Pluto was blue, there are no writings that say that anywhere, except for modern pseudo-science translations that rely upon colors used for painting as proof. (Heck they really didn't even know Pluto existed, what some ancient writings have been called "proof they know about pluto" turned out to be proof that they could understand the Jovian moons.

As far as Pluto being "blue" it's actually more of a whitish/reddish color, the blue we see in some depictions is a false color image created by our probes, all of which haven't been really close enough to get a great picture of it, but it's not "blue" if you were to look it at with the naked eye...

reply to post by NibiruWarrior


Pluto is not blue.




Here is the best image we have of it right now until New Horizons arrives there next year. The color that are there are exaggerated...but as you can see......there's not much blue there.

Source

reply to post by NibiruWarrior

This information is wrong, they knew Pluto was blue and could not have possibly known that.

Pluto is not blue.

reply to post by NibiruWarrior


Sitchin had a background in Economics. Dr. Michael Heiser has degrees in a number of ancient languages including Sumerian. He, along with every other Assyriologist, says that Sitchin is 100% wrong. And before you claim that Heiser is a shill it should be noted that he has his own theories regarding ancient aliens based off the Bible.

reply to post by NibiruWarrior


Also, many scholars were critical of Sitchin's work, well before he died in 2010. Plenty of articles and books published about it prior to that.

How can a economics major, who "self taught" himself to read sumerian text......know more than those who's knowledge extends to even other languages and experts in their fields?

Sitchin even tried to say that all languages stemmed from Sumerian.....which is completely wrong.

eriktheawful
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

Hey! Good post!

Unfortunately we know that if the sun had another body, it can not be of sizable mass, because then the "brown dwarf" would ignite and be visible, if even as a red dwarf. And I know you're smart enough to know that there would be no hiding that.

However, a brown dwarf can be down to only 15 Jupiter masses, and even at that mass, the same size as Jupiter. That qualifies as a binaries with large mass difference. If they have large mass differences, then we are looking at two different kinds of orbits:

One in which both bodies orbit around a common point:

Or the smaller mass body orbits the sun:

And while either of those might still be possible............it means if there is something out there, it can't be Nibiru or Planet X.

Here is why: the binary body does not have a orbit that brings it into the inner (or even outer) solar system. Nibiru is suppose to make pass bys the Earth every 3,600 years.

Again, we know that even if there was another body out there, either orbiting the sun or with a common point, it can not be influencing the planets of our system, else the eccentricity of their orbits would be different. This goes for any speculation that the theoretical body orbiting our sun has planets and it is they they are sweeping into our system: their masses would disturb the eccentricity of our planets too.

So while your article is interesting, and I think it might have merit, it doesn't fit Nibiru's MO I'm afraid, so it doesn't really support it.

Here is a link to 90377 Sedna, a dwarf planet who's major axis of it's orbit takes it out to 937 AUs....that's astounding. It takes 11,400 years for it to complete it's orbit:

As you can see, the shape of it's orbit is....highly suggestive, heh.

I know, that's not exactly critical thinking, but still, if your trying to compile things that suggest a binary companion to the Sun, I would think 90377 Sedna would at least spark the suggestion in someone's mind.

However, again, a binary companion Nibiru can't be.

Thank you for the thorough and informative response, Erik.

So in the hypothetical Nibiru/Planet X case (either designating a small unignited binary body) it would have to be orbiting the Sun, if both were orbiting a fixed point there would be only a negligible affect on the planets in the inner solar system, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Okay, so I'm trying to follow your reasoning and understand your assumptions. Why is it not possible for a theoretical small binary body to have a highly elliptical orbit that passes through the inner solar system?

Also, your are making assumptions about eccentricity which use circular logic. If Nibiru did exist, it would only have a noticeable affect on the eccentricities of the planets when it was closer to perihelion. Thus, to see if the eccentricities of the planets were affected by a hypothetical Nibiru you would have to know their values before the last hypothesized passage, 3600 years ago, and compare them to today. If they were the same then you could make your case. If they were not you would have to explain the cause of the difference. However, we don't know what the eccentricities were 3600 years ago.

reply to post by eriktheawful


Irm, actually, all languages do stem from Sumeria, formerly Bablylon, where at the tower of Babel God mixed up the languages. Its right there in the Bible take a look.

reply to post by NibiruWarrior

Also, Sitchin's translations are said to be correct by people who know about the language

Who are these people?

After all, why wait till he's dead if your new information is infallible, the author of the original works can not argue back then can he..

That is an extreme misrepresentation of the truth.

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with Heiser's challenge to debate this on Coast To Coast?

Why did Sitchin refuse to defend his "interpretations" against Heiser?

The Nibiru cataclysm is a supposed disastrous encounter between the Earth and a large planetary object (either a collision or a near-miss) which certain groups believe will take place in the early 21st century. Believers in this doomsday event usually refer to this object as Planet X or Nibiru. The idea that a planet-sized object will collide with or pass by Earth in the near future is not supported by any scientific evidence and has been rejected as pseudoscience by astronomers and planetary scientists.[1]
The idea was first put forward in 1995 by Nancy Lieder,[2][3] founder of the website ZetaTalk.

Lieder describes herself as a contactee with the ability to receive messages from extra-terrestrials from the Zeta Reticuli star system through an implant in her brain. She states that she was chosen to warn mankind that the object would sweep through the inner Solar System in May 2003 (though that date was later abandoned) causing Earth to undergo a pole shift that would destroy most of humanity. The prediction has subsequently spread beyond Lieder's website and has been embraced by numerous Internet doomsday groups, most of which linked the event to the 2012 phenomenon.

Although the name "Nibiru" is derived from the works of the late ancient astronaut writer Zecharia Sitchin and his interpretations of Babylonian and Sumerian mythology, Sitchin denied any connection between his work and various claims of a coming apocalypse.

Emph mine....

Nibiru/PlanetX coming to destroy us all started with Nancy in 1995, before that, Planet X referred to the search for more/previously undiscovered planets in our solar system. It is interesting to note that at one point Pluto was called Planet X until they gave it a name.

But the doom porn bit of all of this started and should have ended with Ms Lieder..

reply to post by vkey08


The winged discs are found in many cultures, Persian, Babylonian, Aztec none of whom knew about Ra.