20 Million Felons, 47 Million on SNAP, 13 Million on Welfare, 15 Million Unemployed

reply to post by Snarl


I can understand his jaded approach.

The prison system is very unique experience. You have to be really strong not to left the collective mindset of the prison population get to you. Especially if your in a bad place in your mind before you go.

Its a bad idea to put so many criminals together in one place. They all have a general consensus. This breeds more problems then it solves. In fact after incarceration most people become better criminals. They all network and teach each other about their cases and how they get caught.

Its really bad.

reply to post by onequestion


I am off to work my company job. I will respond in the AM.

reply to post by macman


I have heard stories about people on welfare but I haven't seen it first hand. I hear it happens in the south though.
I can't comprehend it because it is such a far cry from my experience of being on welfare.

My ex husband left me and my 3 children high and dry. I lost my job because I couldn't pay for daycare. We didn't have cable or a t.v. I lived on $555 cash and $450 approx in food stamps. $555 doesn't cover rent for even a 1 bedroom in California so I had to move into low income housing. Most of the people worked. There were a lot of secretaries and people who had been tricked into getting medical billing degrees who lived there.
No one had a nice car because you CAN'T! Any car valued at over 2k Kelly blue book value disqualified you from assistance.

Anyone living on welfare that has a nice car or a big screen t.v. needs to be investigated. Anything of any value gets sold to pay the bills.

This was in the early 2000's I am no longer in this situation, but welfare saved my life. However, the one thing that could have prevented me from even being there was government assisted day care. Many single moms can't work because they don't have anyone to watch the children.

I wanted off welfare more than anything but climbing out of that mess was a near impossibility until my kids were old enough to stay home alone.

reply to post by calstorm


I can relate in a way. My parents ran into a tough time for about 3 years we ended up living in some projects in town. Wic saved my little brothers and sisters ass. Then finally we got out and my dad started making decent money again.

reply to post by onequestion

His opinion was mine. That's the reason I retired from LE and moved on. There are no winners under that net.

You might think I have no respect for you, but you'd be wrong. What you won't get from me is sympathy. If you're out, AFAIC, you're square with the house. I know you've got a long row to hoe and I don't envy that.

reply to post by Snarl


Im not the type to look for sympathy. I work my ass off and i know i made the bed i lay in. I understand both sides of the fence.

Add - Theres also a difference between understanding and sympathy. Sometimes its nice just to have some acknowledgement. Its a tough road no matter what and its nice for some people to acknowledge that your sticking to your guns and staying out of trouble and its not much to ask to ask people for forgiveness after 5+ years.

DZAG Wright

Does this question REALLY need be asked? Wait...do you think every person has the same opportunities?

Everyone has opportunities period. Because of this everyone has the ability for success...Can you give a few examples of those that have zero opportunities?

reply to post by Xtrozero


Its really simple that there isn't enough high paying jobs lets make it so that people dont have to be miserable but can still be alive.

The system is reaching so far into our everyday lives that you HAVE to work within it. Theres very few homsteads and other communities that are contemporary that allow for people to farm and grow cattle and run their own lives.

onequestion
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

Its really simple that there isn't enough high paying jobs lets make it so that people dont have to be miserable but can still be alive.

The system is reaching so far into our everyday lives that you HAVE to work within it. Theres very few homsteads and other communities that are contemporary that allow for people to farm and grow cattle and run their own lives.

One must ask why?

Has it always been like this or just in the last 5 years? Why was it in the past that people could make low wage and be happy?

A few things have happen, one thing that doesn't help is when a Government makes it profitable to send 10s of millions of jobs overseas while allowing 10 of millions of low skill undocumented workers to live in our country. That has a huge affect on the non-available of jobs.

When in 2008 a family that made 50k could live ok, but in 2014 they go under since cost of living is going up faster than income can keep up has huge affect.

These are not helping, but I understand your point.

What does a person do who has made poor decisions their whole life get ahead once they have dug a hole so deep that they can not see an out to a miserable subsistence life. I personally would not wish that life on anyone, but the problem is you have competition that will out work you or has more qualifications than you. I don't know the answer, and a lot depends on your age. If you are in your 20s you have ways out but once you hit mid to late 30s and beyond your hurtles get larger.

One can also ask how did poor people survive in the 1800s and before and the answer is that they lived in the community. Life was harsher too, for those who screwed up their lives typically died early where today we might as well call them the walking dead. This is the problem today, we have many poor that live a singular life of one person or one family and much of the world does not live like that. If you think about it, 20 adults would do much better to have 20k a month with one rent, one bulk food bill, one utility bill etc than 20 people all trying to pay 20 different rents, 20 food bills, 20 utility bill on only 1000 per month each.

Xtrozero
One must ask why?

Has it always been like this or just in the last 5 years? Why was it in the past that people could make low wage and be happy?

It has been happening for about the past 35 years or so. Wages have stagnated for all but the top 5% or so. Minimum wage buying power in 1956 is about equal to a wage of $35,000 today. In other words minimum wage today has less than half of the buying power it did at a time of massive economic growth.

I'm not a fan of relinking my own posts but it seems I have to do it often with this subject.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

In that post I show the number of hours one had to work at minimum wage to buy the same item at various years.

The other answer to your question is that since about the 1920's we've used the concept of planned obsolescence to create jobs for people, this concept has been put into heavier and heavier use as time has gone on and is why we have phrases like "they don't make things like they used to", this was done for profit reasons but also economic ones as it allowed everyone to have a job through the creation of a higher need for goods. We've reached a point however where productivity has gotten so high, that we can't make things anymore disposable, this means that only 50% of the population is required to provide for the needs and wants of 100% of the population. The work for that other 50% to perform literally doesn't exist, and is never going to exist again.

The only solution is to lower the work week so that everyone can contribute again.

vkey08

FreeWillAnomaly
reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly

 

Talking to "my fellow Americans" about politics is like talking to a bunch of robots incapable of computing patterns that fall outside of any known programs.

Best to get back to promoting thought and individual free will.

That is simply not fair to most people in the country. Most of your "fellow Americans" are fed up but have no idea how to go about changing things, and therefore are just frustrated with it all. You talk as though you are "above" everyone, and that may be why people aren't responding to you as much as you would like, or debating you as well as you would like...

Something to think about..

The way you change things is not through debate. You act like I want to debate. You act like I want responses. I want to promote thought. Have you read any of the posts? While responses are welcome, they are not what I am after.

Don't you see that debate will never work to enact change in favor of anyone other than one of a few groups of the ruling class?

You have to promote individual thought and free will. That is what has been subverted. That is why we are subjected.

Don't you see this new generation of a subjected population arguing with each other over the symptoms when the disease has yet to be addressed? People watch presidential speeches, commercials, and news without taking offense to the insanely cheap psychological tactics being utilized. Until psychological coercion is taken as a personal insult to the people of America, America will continue to be on a self-destructive path. Take it personally. Get offended. You are being treated like a dog. They insert X stimuli to get A reaction out of Z group of the population. Rinse and repeat. It becomes a game won not through pure intent, but through the manipulation of the perceptions of the majority of the population. That is exactly WHY debate is pointless. It is a game of perceptions which leads no where.

What people fail to realize is that they have to relinquish their need for control. Your need for control is the exact mechanism by which you are controlled! Doesn't turning the TV on cause you to feel personally insulted? You are being mocked! That is what they think of you! Who is they? A collective of groups that think you are incapable of thinking for yourself! In fact, a few people got Nobel Peace Prizes for agreeing that you are incapable of thinking for yourself!

Sorry for the exclamation points.

This is useless. It is so wide spread that there is no stopping it. The primal circuitry in the human brain allows for this, and will continue to allow for it unless a class on resistance to cheap psychological manipulation is made mandatory in state-sponsored education systems (like that would ever happen).

This period in history will be in the books as a period of nothing but widespread psychological coercion and most of the people living right now don't even know it. This is simply a result of a race of evil people making rapid advances in psychology and technology. It's like giving a 12 year old command over an entire battalion of F-22s. There is nothing I can do but get some popcorn and watch the fireworks, because there will be no stopping them. I should learn to resist the urge to even try.

ETA: The reference to "my fellow Americans" was a reference to a phrase that you should be familiar with. I guess you didn't get the joke. Watch a presidential speech sometime (if you can stand to, anyways). I wasn't trying to insult people or place myself above them.

reply to post by Aazadan


It's not about what is right. It is about control.

Have you ever seen the movie Metropolis?

That is the future we are moving toward. It is not about what is right. It is about control. There are plenty of resources to support twice the population we have right now and much more, but even with this low amount of people on the earth - there are people who are starving and people without access to clean water. People without access to medical care. Kids die every day, and needlessly at that. There are is even a push coming from within some groups in the ruling class to depopulate the earth.

Do you know why?

People are evil and have a need to control their environment and much more importantly - other people. It's not JUST the ruling class causing this. It's people. People are evil. From the homeless families to the Rockefellers - people are just no good. Even the few people who attain righteousness - they used to be evil.

So what can those who aspire to righteousness do to help abate the evil in the world?

Well, debating about politics isn't going to go anywhere. That much is certain.

onequestion
PS i stared your response. You may not care but your civil enough to respond for an intellectual perspective rather then emotional and for that i am willing to participate in furthering the discussion with you where i would usually stop. You may not care but im just relating to you.

Under my screen name, it states I am a really nice savage. I am a savage, that is without question. But, I can be nice.
I do personally care for my fellow man. That is why I give 10% of my income, which is quite a bit, and myself and my family volunteer for numerous things.
But.....But....that is MY choice. I am not forced to do that. That is where the issues are.

onequestion

Its not the good life trust me. Public housing is riddled with crime and children who grow up in these areas and attend the schools have a much lesser percentage success rate and in some communities they have a smaller percentage for suvival or staying out of prison. Dont give me personal responsability crap for people ages 13-16 either because they dont even know better. Hell most people dont get it figured out till their mid twenties. I know i dont have it figured out yet and im 28. I dont expect a 13 year old to figure it out either.

So, let me relate.
When my wife and I moved back to the current state we live in, we searched for apartments. One of the apartment complexes we came across was really nice. About 2 years old, really nice cars everywhere and the residents walking around were dressed well. Go in, talk tot he manager and she says he schpeel, and states rent was $250 a month. My wife and I look at each other in disbelief. She then asks for our state housing form for the low income housing apartment. Now, parking was filled with 2-4 year old nice cars. People were walking around with nice, really nice clothes. And it was low income.

Fast forward to a couple months back. In line at Walmart. Young mother and father, not married with 2 year old. Nice clothes, new iphone and purse and everything else. Girl buys milk and bread and such with Govt EBT card. Guy, after her transaction closes, pulls out a wad of cash, buys beer, smokes, and other crap.

So yeah, I got a real problem.

As a LEO in AZ. I saw it with illegals. 6 illegals, in a $300k house, all paid under the table, all getting Govt handouts, all living very very very well.
Saw it for citizens as well. Same people, day after day. All living off of Welfare. Wouldn't get a job to save their life.

On a small percentage, I saw the single mom working to get through a divorce.
SMALL Percentage.

onequestion
Right but a big screen tv cost 500 bucks. Its a one time charge thats easier to save up for then a consistant montly charge for rent. You can save up for a big screen easier then you can take on a car payment or rent.

Doesn't matter. That is $500 that should have been used for the basics in life. Tax payer money funded a TV. That is insane.

onequestion
Oh yeah? You rely on the community that buys the product of whatever industry your in. If something happens to that community youll be in the same situation like many people in the construction industry around the nation who lost their jobs when the housing boom stopped. Tell that to the millions of skilled trade worker reducating themselves while their family is put up in someone elses house so the husband can start a new career.

I have worked at least 2 jobs since I was 16. If I can be successful, so can everyone else.

onequestion

Its simple math. There isn't 50 million middle America jobs. This is due to an ever integrated world economy, a falsly inflated real estate market and advancing technology.

Sounds like people need to be able to retool themselves to work in the emerging industries.
If this was really the issue, people would be rioting in the streets when the electronic refrigerator came into the house, thus putting the guy out of a job that delivered blocks of ice.

onequestion
Most of these jobs will never come back due to technology. Do you suggest we round these poor people up and kill them?

The only persons suggesting rounding up people is you and DZAG. If that is your solution, I would suggest you go and investigate Eugenics. Seems that Progressives have this deep in their closet.

onequestion

Right there should be no income tax. A sales tax i can agree with but not an income tax. Here we agree.

Or a flat tax.

onequestion

Right but your not offering a solution which means you are not a part of the solution.

If your not a part of the solution then your a part of the problem. Were not diasgreeing with you on your stance on government were trying to tell you we need a solution before we create a situation of chaos in America which will destroy you and everyone in it.

No....
I did offer a solution. It is responded to with statement that people will die, riot and anarchy will reign.
Seems that these things weren't happening before all of this welfare crap started.

onequestion
Everyone including myself is agreeing with you on this. However this is not what point is being made, the point being made is that we need to discover the steps necessary to get these people off of welfare without starving or killing them. Thats the point.

People will not starve or die without welfare. That is a farce.
People lived and thrived without it.

onequestion

Right but giving chairyt isnt creating sustainable jobs. Youd be better off finding an apprentice and moving them into your house and teaching them your trade. Now that would help the problem.

All things done on a personal level. All a personal choice. All require no intervention of Govt.

onequestion
Were not disagreeing on anything were just not agreeing on a solution. It would help more for us to unify under the same umbrella and work towards a solution. Can you help do that instead? The division in this thread is pointless. Lets all agree to work towards a solution instead of disagreeing over symantics can you get down with that?

Individuals are the solution. Not Govt.

calstorm


I wanted off welfare more than anything but climbing out of that mess was a near impossibility until my kids were old enough to stay home alone.

You stated the biggest factor, that most don't follow.

I wanted off welfare more than anything

Most don't.

reply to post by macman


Uh...people WERE starving without welfare. Even with welfare, people are still starving in America - to death in some cases (and that's with soup kitchens factored in). That's why food stamps were created in the first place. People were not getting adequate nutrition and some were starving. People are viewed as an asset. Even lazy people turn a long term profit if they manage to raise kids, because the rate of geniuses being born into the country increases with every person born. Many of them are born into poor families, and in this drug consuming country - often with drug addicted parents. In the end, all of those people turn a long term profit.

But, as the rate of consumption increases in first world countries, the ruling class has realized that there is a threshold approaching where it is no longer profitable for the population to grow. The technology boom is right around the corner (literally about a decade off). After that, it will actually be profitable to depopulate the earth.

Sadly, people are not viewed as people but instead are viewed as resources. Hence resource management and food stamps.

Of course, political theater doesn't cut to the truth of the situation and what is in store for people. Never has and never will. That's just there to give you the illusion of choice.

FreeWillAnomaly


Uh...people WERE starving without welfare. Even with welfare, people are still starving in America - to death in some cases

And there you go.

So, even with the Govt fighting to end poverty, or hunger or what ever is the buzzword this month, it fails. And not only fails, but fails miserably with a huge appetite for Tax payer money.

macman

FreeWillAnomaly


Uh...people WERE starving without welfare. Even with welfare, people are still starving in America - to death in some cases

And there you go.

So, even with the Govt fighting to end poverty, or hunger or what ever is the buzzword this month, it fails. And not only fails, but fails miserably with a huge appetite for Tax payer money.

Yes, it was a band-aid on a gunshot wound and you could only get the band-aid if you were obedient (or at least didn't get caught being disobedient). Otherwise, it was deemed to have already been proven that you were not going to turn a profit for the ruling class. Although, in the theater it wasn't worded like that.

Yes, it costs the tax payers.

What you fail to realize is that no matter what happens - it is coming out of the middle class's slice of the pie (and the somewhat rich, but not truly rich). Food stamps could get turned off tomorrow and it would come out of the middle class's pocket. You still don't understand the nature of the game. It is chess not checkers, as the old saying goes.

FreeWillAnomaly


What you fail to realize is that no matter what happens - it is coming out of the middle class's slice of the pie (and the somewhat rich, but not truly rich). Food stamps could get turned off tomorrow and it would come out of the middle class's pocket. You still don't understand the nature of the game. It is chess not checkers, as the old saying goes.

Being born a southern redneck, maybe my math skills aren't what they should be.
Explain to me how exactly I will pay more taxes, if welfare is cut. Along with other Govt handouts.

reply to post by macman


There ain't nothin' wrong with your math skills. I was born in Big Creek, Mississippi in 1951, I get that "I am stupid so don't blame me, but I'm cute" philosophy.

Whether you have a moral objection to food stamps or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that gas, food, clothing stores will suffer greatly. Then more jobs will be lost. But I get the point. The only answer in your world is suffering and death in the disguise of being a "redneck". When was your neck red and cancer ridden after 40 years in the fields?

macman

FreeWillAnomaly


What you fail to realize is that no matter what happens - it is coming out of the middle class's slice of the pie (and the somewhat rich, but not truly rich). Food stamps could get turned off tomorrow and it would come out of the middle class's pocket. You still don't understand the nature of the game. It is chess not checkers, as the old saying goes.

Being born a southern redneck, maybe my math skills aren't what they should be.
Explain to me how exactly I will pay more taxes, if welfare is cut. Along with other Govt handouts.

edit on 5-2-2014 by macman because: (no reason given)

My family is full of red necks. Red necks do fine math.


Like I said, it is a long term game that will always end with the middle class getting shorted more and more every year. It has very steadily been that way since WWII, at the very least. Currently, having food stamps is more profitable for the ruling class (don't confuse this to mean rich people, or government - I am talking about the ruling class - Koch brother, Bloomberg types) than not having food stamps as far as the next decade or so is concerned. If you take them away all at once, the middle class will have to make up for what that human resource didn't provide (trust me, it always comes back to the middle class - there are many ways to ensure that). Whether that human resource lives or dies - you and I will pay for that human resource. That's why food stamps will be slowly phased out, unless those in the ruling class have a sudden change of heart and decide they don't mind sharing a little bit. Like I said, once the technology boom hits - it will no longer be profitable because less human resources will be required for optimal efficiency and leeching (don't forget, they make a lot of money off of all of those people in prison that your tax money goes to - that is a multi billion a year industry) - geniuses included. We are approaching the threshold. You will most likely be getting your wish soon enough, but I hate to tell you that it won't work in your favor. That is, unless there is some use for the human resource that I am not seeing.

To understand why political theater is playing out the way it is (and make no mistake - politics is one big sit com with deadly consequences, but the politicians ARE actors) - you have to look at the long term goals. Thankfully, they tell you the long term goals outright. You just have to be willing to pay attention to the things the ruling class and their think tanks are saying instead of what Obama and Christie are saying. The current plan is to socially engineer depopulation for the foreseeable future. That and to devalue the American dollar to replace the reserve currency. But don't take my word for it. Look into it. I could go get you some links if you would like.

Really, there is nothing any of us can do about this stuff. I don't know why I bother talking about it. I'm just happy for the bones that ARE thrown our way - like food stamps - even if it is out of convenience and not benevolence. By us I mean everyone who is not in the ruling class.