The Mystery Religion – Jesus (The Sun of God)

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

so why did Jesus keep referring to the Old Testament religion and its laws, prophets etc.?

I don't know. Why don't you tell me?..

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

The OT religion was NOT about sun worship. As someone who reads the whole thing, why should Jesus be seen in isolation from the religion he was part OF.

In what way was he isolated?..

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

so why did Jesus keep referring to the Old Testament religion and its laws, prophets etc.? The OT religion was NOT about sun worship. As someone who reads the whole thing, why should Jesus be seen in isolation from the religion he was part OF.

Jesus came at the end of an age, and the "Christ" figure represents the ushering in of a "new age". The age that was ending was especially applicable to the Jews, as their temple was about to be destroyed that their children scattered to the "ends the world", diaspora.

The worship of Jesus Christ violated a Jewish person's resolve to keep the 1st Commandment of "no other Gods". The "Christ" figure assisted in the destruction of Jewish culture and Christianity was the method. Paul declares the "law" dead. Circumcision was no longer necessary and the Sabbath was replaced with "Sunday". The Canons of Laocidia virtually outlawed Jewishness!

sk0rpi0n
so why did Jesus keep referring to the Old Testament religion and its laws, prophets etc.?

If Jesus was just a mythical personification of the sun then he never said anything

So then your question should be how come somebody wrote as if there was a Jesus and he was concerned with incorporating the Jewish belief system into a new all encompassing (catholic) belief system?

reply to post by nenothtu

For the same reason that the numbers 3, 6, and 7 have that association. By your logic, the divisions of the zodiac were "appropriated" from the Shawnee Indians, because according to them there were 12 "first people", 6 male and 6 female, who were created in the sky and lowered to Earth in a basket. obviously the creators of the zodiac stole that association of "12" and "sky" to create their zodiac. How did the ancient Sumerians get in contact with the Shawnee to steal that for their zodiac? I guess we'll never know, but it's obvious by your logic that they did. There's just no other explanation - clearly "12" and "sky" are associated in both!

No, by my logic everyone on Earth sees the same star filled sky. There's a reason 12 is prevalent throughout history in myths, religions, and traditions spanning the entire globe. The reason is because there are 12 constellations no matter where you are on Earth. The sky doesn't change if you move to another part of the world you know.

You are being stubborn and you know it. Are you of any of the Abrahamic faiths by chance? Jewish or Islam maybe?

Why can I not take it up with modern-day astrologers, since they are perpetuating the same errors to make otherwise non-existent "points"? I can make any point under the Sun (pun intended) if I am allowed to arbitrarily make up "facts" like "transitions". Incidentally, the 1.5 degrees you mention aren't "between" the constellations, they are overlaps. If each 30 degree increment is overlapped by 1.5 degrees at each end, the overlap area is actually 3 degrees.

Because astrologers today base the zodiac on the zodiac which was invented thousands of years ago, not one they want to invent today. Again, you'll have to take up your issue with the ones who invented the zodiac wheel of which countless religions have based their myths off of.

Correct. No correlation, or more properly, a forced one. One has to chisel the corners off to make it fit into the puzzle. If I, as a "fisherman" get the hook caught in ME, as if I were the "fish", then I am doing it wrong.

If that sort of association had been meant, it would have been much simpler to call Jesus a "hunter of men" and made the association with Orion, the Hunter, which is also a cross-cultural stellar identity., or Reticulum, "The Net", which is what a fisherman catches fish with.

Jesus as the "fish-er" and Pisces as the "fish-ee" is a forced association at best.

It's obvious now that you are being dense, looking for any excuse NOT to see the connection. Let's say the sun is the fisher and Pisces is the fish, the sun "fishes" for the Pisces "fish" when it rises over the constellation. Stop being dense, the connection is there, you just don't want to see it.

Uncommon to first century Jews in Jerusalem, of course. Rome ha nothing to do with it, although I suspect it would have been easier to find a male carrying a jug of water in Rome at the time. How are you factoring the precession of the equinoxes into it? That precession, by the way, "moves" the equinoxes over time. The "First Point of Aries" (aka "vernal equinox", "spring equinox"), for example, is no longer IN Aries. It's now in Pisces.

Uncommon to the common people maybe, but uncommon to those in the ruling class? Fat chance and a huge stretch of the imagination. The zodiac has been common knowledge among the elite for thousands of years, otherwise we wouldn't have the zodiac today. It has been preserved by those in power so it goes to reason that they knew about it.

Exactly, it's now is Pisces, which is why Jesus is considered to be a "fisher" of men. Thank you for reinforcing my point.

I always get a kick out of these theories of multi-generational Evil Plans by Evil TPTBs. What's the point of even having power if you won't live to see your Evil Plans come to fruition?

Those who are truly evil (those in power) go above and beyond what they "have" to do in their lifetimes, that's what makes them so evil. They are still in the lap of luxury while they are alive and I'm sure they want their children and grandchildren all the way down the line to have that luxury as well. They want their family line to stay in power for as long as possible which is why it sometimes takes generations for a plan to unfold.

reply to post by nenothtu

To illustrate the disconnect, which you now apparently agree with.

What disconnect? That cultures around the world experience the same phenomena as everyone else? I'm still confused.

Oh. My mistake. I failed to realize that the object of the discourse was to disprove the existence of anyone. Let me try my hand at that:

a Roman Centurion commanded 100 men.

There are 100 years in a century.

There are 100 pennies in a dollar.

There are 100 senators in the Senate.

The Vice President is "President of the Senate".

Obviously this proves that the vice president doesn't exist, because the number 100 can be traced back to the Roman Legions, so clearly the idea was stolen from them and incorporated into a mythology involving the existence of a Vice President.

Yeah.

I see how that works now.

What are you talking about? We're talking about religion, not politics or the military. Religions throughout hustory have borrowed from one another and built upon previous mythologies, which is why comparative religion exists. Comparative religion is a real field of study and the connections between religions throughout history are real as well.

That's not the connection the article made - it tried to connect the ancient Canaanite word "Baal" with the modern English word "bull" to make the association. I don't know much about Ugaritic mythology, but I do know that Baal was so named because he was "The Lord of Thunder", rather than "The Lord of Bulls".

Yet the connection with Ba'al and the bull still exists. Funny how that works isn't it?

reply to post by EsotericGod


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Good thread, i believe much is hidden in the bible. The part in the bible where it talks I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. Everything and all existence can be described by whats in the bible, but its hidden as you most likely know.

There is a message written in the stars so man is without excuse as to what the plan of God is. EW Bullinger wrote a masterpiece on it called, "Written in the Stars" which you can read for free here:

philologos.org...

From that link which explains each section of the Mazzaroth / Zodiac and how they show the Gospel truth for those not too afraid to challenge their beliefs:

Such are the contents of this wondrous book that is written in the heavens. Thus has God been speaking and emphasizing and developing His first great prophetic promise of Genesis 3:15. Though for more than 2,500 years His people had not this Revelation written in a book as we now have it in the Bible, they were not left in ignorance and darkness as to God's purposes and counsels; nor were they without hope as to ultimate deliverance from all evil and from the Evil One.

Adam, who first heard that wondrous promise, repeated it, and gave it to his posterity as a most precious heritage— ground of all their faith, the substance of all their hope, the object of all their desire. Seth and Enoch took it up. Enoch, we know, prophesied of the Lord's coming, saying, "Behold the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints to execute judgment upon all" (Jude 14).

How could these "holy prophets, since the world began," have recorded their prophecies better, or more effectually, or more truthfully and powerfully, than in these star-pictures and their interpretation? This becomes a certainty when we remember the words of the Holy Spirit by Zacharias (Luke 1:67-70):

"Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; For He hath visited and redeemed His people, And hath raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of His servant David He spake by the mouth of HIS HOLY PROPHETS WHICH HAVE BEEN SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN." The same truth is revealed through Peter, in Acts 3:20, 21: "He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you; whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all HIS HOLY PROPHETS SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN."

These words have new meaning for us, if we see the things which were spoken "since the world began," thus written in the heavens, which utter speech (i.e. prophecy), and show forth this knowledge day after day and night after night, the heritage of all the earth, and their words reaching unto the ends of the world. This Revelation, coinciding as it does in all its facts and truths with that afterwards recorded "in the Volume of the Book," must have had the same Divine origin, must have been made known by the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit. We now proceed to compare the two, and we shall see how they agree at every point, proving that the source and origin of this Divine Revelation is one and the same.

I have enjoyed the pleasant and funny answers directed towards the OP who appears to have posted a baiting thread. I will give this one reply, and leave, not because I cannot defend my points, but I know when to tap the dust off my feet, and have been on ATS for enough time to know when a deck is stacked to troll for Christians and bait us. I will also point out that the snide, rude, acerbic comments do your side no favors. The ill spirit is clearly seen by all, and 99% of people don't reply because of such antics anyway, so if you want debate, try playing a little nicer.

For Signs and For Seasons

racasan
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Dividing the year up into twelve’s is based on the number of full moons in one solar year and is probably one the oldest timekeeping systems known and this can still be seen in the language

Moon/months (english)
Monat/Mond (german)
Kuu/kuukausi(finnish)
And so on
The american indians give names the moon over the year
Januarys full moon = Wolf Moon
February full moon = Snow moon
And so on

More germane to the discussion, the western zodiac is divided into 12 segments because of the 12 full moons. Each "house" of the moon has 30 degrees, but the constellations do not. This is because Middle Eastern agrarian society was regulated by lunar phases, rather than solar wanderings. To this day both the Islamic and Jewish calendars are lunar-based.

I don't know about American Indians in general, but the Shawnee have 13 "moons" in a year.

EsotericGod

reply to post by nenothtu

 

12 donuts in a dozen. That doesn't mean christians got their religion from a bakery.

Say there are 1,000 references in the bible in regards to Jesus being the son of god.

Say that these 1,000 references can be interpreted by astronomy.

In comparison, there are 100 references to Jesus being a baker.

This means that although there is a chance that Christians got there religion from a bakery, there is a much higher chance that they got there religion from 'God' or 'Astronomy'.

Ignorance is bliss. Believe what you choose to believe.

So there are 1000 references in the Bible in regards to Jesus being the son of god that can be interpreted by astronomy? Do tell... otherwise, this is just a straw man argument by definition, a postulate set up only to be knocked down.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


The sky actually does change depending on your location of the planet. You are aware of that right? It is a round ball. Not all ends point in the same direction.

nenothtu

racasan
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Dividing the year up into twelve’s is based on the number of full moons in one solar year and is probably one the oldest timekeeping systems known and this can still be seen in the language

Moon/months (english)
Monat/Mond (german)
Kuu/kuukausi(finnish)
And so on
The american indians give names the moon over the year
Januarys full moon = Wolf Moon
February full moon = Snow moon
And so on

More germane to the discussion, the western zodiac is divided into 12 segments because of the 12 full moons. Each "house" of the moon has 30 degrees, but the constellations do not. This is because Middle Eastern agrarian society was regulated by lunar phases, rather than solar wanderings. To this day both the Islamic and Jewish calendars are lunar-based.

My point is our ancestors divided the year into 12 because there are 12 full moons in a year – there are some years that have 13 but it is mostly 12 – stuff about the zodiac and 12 houses and so on where probably details added later

I don't know about American Indians in general, but the Shawnee have 13 "moons" in a year.

There are some years that have 13 full moons but if someone was to try and constantly use 13 moons for a year then they would very quickly run into problems – so I checked this out and found this:

www.wwu.edu...

It says the Shawnee has 12 moons in its calendar – I have an interest in this kind of thing if you have any info about this 12/13 moon thing I would be grateful for the assistance

reply to post by pleasethink


The alignment of the stars do not change, everyone on Earth sees the same constellations as everyone else. Everyone sees the same stars at night no matter what part of the Earth you live on, that's how the rotation of the Earth works, the dark side is always facing the same set of stars on any given day. The positions of the stars relative to the Earth's revolution will change as the year goes by but the stars and constellations stay in their respective places.

I'm not that dense to think we live on a planet where stars follow you when you travel, you misunderstood me.

3NL1GHT3N3D1

No, by my logic everyone on Earth sees the same star filled sky. There's a reason 12 is prevalent throughout history in myths, religions, and traditions spanning the entire globe. The reason is because there are 12 constellations no matter where you are on Earth. The sky doesn't change if you move to another part of the world you know.

Then your logic is flawed, because not everyone on Earth sees the same set of zodiacal constellations. Since there are 88 constellations (in western traditions) I must assume that you are referring to only the zodiacal constellations here. The Maya divided the zodiac into 19. The Aztecs divided it into 20. Continental Druids divided it into 22. Insular Celts divided it into 13. There are many other cultures with different traditions and divisions.

Not everyone sees "12", much less the same 12.

Every culture has their own arbitrary division - and they ARE all arbitrary. Nothing inherent in the stellar landscape causes those divisions - only the minds of men.

You are being stubborn and you know it. Are you of any of the Abrahamic faiths by chance? Jewish or Islam maybe?

No. If I were a Taurus I would be being stubborn. I'm a Leo, so I'm being regal.

"Abrahamic" perhaps, but not Christian, Jewish, OR Muslim. You don't have a label for what I am, and that's pretty much the way I like it.

Because astrologers today base the zodiac on the zodiac which was invented thousands of years ago, not one they want to invent today. Again, you'll have to take up your issue with the ones who invented the zodiac wheel of which countless religions have based their myths off of.

By "countless" I presume you mean "really big number, more than I can count". We can go with that, I guess. Who can really be bothered to try and count them? It might be a disappointing number, and lead to arguments as to the validity of astrology and whatnot. Can't have that. Since the folks that invented it - and they DID invent it, rather than taking it from the stars - are all dead, I guess I'll just have to take it up with the modern adherents - meaning you, I suppose.

It's obvious now that you are being dense, looking for any excuse NOT to see the connection. Let's say the sun is the fisher and Pisces is the fish, the sun "fishes" for the Pisces "fish" when it rises over the constellation. Stop being dense, the connection is there, you just don't want to see it.

Can't see what isn't there. Your attempts to force it to be there does not actually PUT it there. Floundering about looks good on you. Get it? "Floundering"? I got a million of 'em!

BTW - does the Sun ever catch those fish? does it eat them? Not much of a "fisherman" if it never catches them...

Uncommon to the common people maybe, but uncommon to those in the ruling class? Fat chance and a huge stretch of the imagination. The zodiac has been common knowledge among the elite for thousands of years, otherwise we wouldn't have the zodiac today. It has been preserved by those in power so it goes to reason that they knew about it.

So "elites" would be able to see a MAN carrying a jar of water across the street, but to mere peons he would be invisible?

So the zodiac is power magic for the power elite, but us mere peons can't touch it? If we could, I'd imagine some of the superstitious peons would have preserved it just as easily.

Exactly, it's now is Pisces, which is why Jesus is considered to be a "fisher" of men. Thank you for reinforcing my point.

NOW who's being obtuse? "Pisces" is represented by FISH, not men, and not fishermen.

Those who are truly evil (those in power) go above and beyond what they "have" to do in their lifetimes, that's what makes them so evil. They are still in the lap of luxury while they are alive and I'm sure they want their children and grandchildren all the way down the line to have that luxury as well. They want their family line to stay in power for as long as possible which is why it sometimes takes generations for a plan to unfold.

Who am I to disabuse you of your strange superstitions about those "power elite" and their multi-generational schemes to take over the world (BWAHAHAHAHA!)? Carry on then, and believe as you will.

I'm going to try to sum up this whole thread like so.. On one hand you have a book which many hold to be the word of God. This has caused life changing affects to many men throughout history, myself included. There are many historical account of Jesus life outside of scripture. There are even more historical accounts of the apostles outside scripture. These men actually existed. They are not constellations. They were men.
On the other hand, look at the parallels. Look at things that have nothing at all to do with Christianity and how they are similar. Wow, they must be the same.

Now, if I was to just go by these facts, I would have to say that even if I was unbiased, I would side with the first. Your argument lacks any real substance, and that is why people get frustrated, but you know that already I'm sure. It's like saying that the earth and a bowling ball are similar, therefore one was made as a secret attempt to subvert the true knowledge of the almighty bowling ball. Pens were created in secret, to spread the knowledge of pencils to an unknowing population of people who even after they accepted pens still did not possess the knowledge which was supposed to be secretly transmitted by pens about pencils. Oh yeah, and the pens really posed a threat to those poor pocket protectors, who didn't at all use to pwn them daily. Hmm. Not at all roflmao. This literally has to be a troll thread, because as one who has information about many diverse topics, I cannot believe you are that dense. Concede due to HUH? brbconfused/idiedofstupid

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I would take a picture if you feel better. There are actually constellations only visible from some parts of the world. This is a fact. One night I will get Orion. Next the big dipper. It is not always the same. You're a smart person, you should know this.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


If you are in America, above Florida, try to identify the Southern Cross in any time of the year. You won't. Trust me. I'm sorry man. This is not fun anymore, I'm starting to feel bad.

reply to post by nenothtu

 

So there are 1000 references in the Bible in regards to Jesus being the son of god that can be interpreted by astronomy? Do tell... otherwise, this is just a straw man argument by definition, a postulate set up only to be knocked down.

1000 was a random number. There are possibly many, many more. You have got to be kidding me if you really think that i am going to list each of these. If you are interested in an example then here is a link to the OP - The Mystery Religion – Jesus (The Sun of God)

3NL1GHT3N3D1

What disconnect? That cultures around the world experience the same phenomena as everyone else? I'm still confused.

But they interpret those phenomena in radically different ways. You want to interpret christianity as some sort of horoscope, but seem sublimely unaware that it is only YOUR subjective interpretation, and are trying to make an objective argument on subjective interpretations.

The point is that you are taking objective and unassociated things, and "connecting dots" from them that otherwise are not connectable (besides in your mind, your subjective interpretation), and expecting everyone else to reach the same subjective conclusions.

What are you talking about? We're talking about religion, not politics or the military. Religions throughout hustory have borrowed from one another and built upon previous mythologies, which is why comparative religion exists. Comparative religion is a real field of study and the connections between religions throughout history are real as well.

No, we're talking about "connecting dots" where connections are otherwise unavailable outside of our own minds. I illustrated that sort of connection. The field of study is irrelevant to the premise. The number "!00" runs through the entire venue I specified, and is every bit as valid a series of "connected dots" as your is, regardless of the field it is applied to.

Yet the connection with Ba'al and the bull still exists. Funny how that works isn't it?

I must defer to your expertise on Ugaritic religion, since I have none of my own. I don't think Jesus or Christians factor into Ugaritic religion, however - and that's based upon what I know about them.

reply to post by pleasethink

 

It's like saying that the earth and a bowling ball are similar, therefore one was made as a secret attempt to subvert the true knowledge of the almighty bowling ball. Pens were created in secret, to spread the knowledge of pencils to an unknowing population of people who even after they accepted pens still did not possess the knowledge which was supposed to be secretly transmitted by pens about pencils. Oh yeah, and the pens really posed a threat to those poor pocket protectors, who didn't at all use to pwn them daily. Hmm. Not at all roflmao. This literally has to be a troll thread, because as one who has information about many diverse topics, I cannot believe you are that dense. Concede due to HUH? brbconfused/idiedofstupid

Yes it is just like that but you probably don't understand why therefore instead of questioning, you simply dismiss it with gibbersh.. "idiedofstupid"

Ever heard of the quote "Knowledge equals Power"?..

reply to post by nenothtu

 

Since there are 88 constellations (in western traditions) I must assume that you are referring to only the zodiacal constellations here. The Maya divided the zodiac into 19. The Aztecs divided it into 20. Continental Druids divided it into 22. Insular Celts divided it into 13. There are many other cultures with different traditions and divisions.

There are also many other cultures that studied astronomy.