Scientific Facts In The Bible

WonderBoi
So, i guess all the animals on this planet; and all the insects, flowers, trees, oceans, mountains, etc, etc, just "appeared". Everything we see on Earth is all by pure luck? There was no divine intervention? No creator??? All the stars in the sky, that form pictures, just magically arranged itself, to appear as such?

That's harder to believe than any story i've ever read in the Bible. Matter of fact, if you look at some of the stories in the Bible, they're not as "far-fetched", as one may think.

This is GROSS GROSS oversimplification of how evolution of the universe and evolution of life occurred. If you look at it as you described it then yes it does sound far-fetched but if you actually read the science for these things you'd see that it isn't as far fetched as you made it seem. I mean you use words like "magically" to describe science. That is a joke, there is nothing magical about science. Science just is.

As for your second paragraph, you think that stories like some old man building a giant ark and putting two of every creature on earth on it sounds plausible? How did he feed the carnivores? What about the termites? Heck what about insects like the ant or bee that live in hives? What happened if one of the animals got sick and died on the ship? But yea THAT story makes SOOO much more sense then evolution does.

WonderBoi

Grimpachi
reply to post by WonderBoi

 

All the stars in the sky, that form pictures, just magically arranged itself, to appear as such?

I see stars you see pictures. You know if you stare hard enough at clouds people see faces and all sorts of things but anyone with half a brain knows they are still only clouds. enough said.

No magic needed. Magic belongs to the supernatural which can be found in fairytales.

I guess some people really are blind.

Pareidolia

Pareidolia (/pærɨˈdoʊliə/ parr-i-doh-lee-ə) is a psychological phenomenon involving a vague and random stimulus (often an image or sound) being perceived as significant, a form of apophenia. Common examples include seeing images of animals or faces in clouds, the man in the moon or the Moon rabbit, and hearing hidden messages on records when played in reverse.

Apophenia

Apophenia /æpɵˈfiːniə/ is the experience of seeing patterns or connections in random or meaningless data.

Krazysh0t

WonderBoi
So, i guess all the animals on this planet; and all the insects, flowers, trees, oceans, mountains, etc, etc, just "appeared". Everything we see on Earth is all by pure luck? There was no divine intervention? No creator??? All the stars in the sky, that form pictures, just magically arranged itself, to appear as such?

That's harder to believe than any story i've ever read in the Bible. Matter of fact, if you look at some of the stories in the Bible, they're not as "far-fetched", as one may think.

This is GROSS GROSS oversimplification of how evolution of the universe and evolution of life occurred. If you look at it as you described it then yes it does sound far-fetched but if you actually read the science for these things you'd see that it isn't as far fetched as you made it seem. I mean you use words like "magically" to describe science. That is a joke, there is nothing magical about science. Science just is.

As for your second paragraph, you think that stories like some old man building a giant ark and putting two of every creature on earth on it sounds plausible? How did he feed the carnivores? What about the termites? Heck what about insects like the ant or bee that live in hives? What happened if one of the animals got sick and died on the ship? But yea THAT story makes SOOO much more sense then evolution does.

you have to understand that a lot of the arguments against religion sound like they suggest that existence is completely random. I know that's not what you believe, but from a Religious standpoint, when you suddenly remove the idea of a creator, it suggests the random occurrence of existence.

A lot of people would have to completely abandon years of religious learning/teaching, THEN find purpose elsewhere. Not everyone is prepared or willing to do such a thing, although there are some who can understand others perceptions while holding true to their own values without any fear of abandonment.

Krazysh0t

WonderBoi

Grimpachi
reply to post by WonderBoi

 

All the stars in the sky, that form pictures, just magically arranged itself, to appear as such?

I see stars you see pictures. You know if you stare hard enough at clouds people see faces and all sorts of things but anyone with half a brain knows they are still only clouds. enough said.

No magic needed. Magic belongs to the supernatural which can be found in fairytales.

I guess some people really are blind.

Pareidolia

Pareidolia (/pærɨˈdoʊliə/ parr-i-doh-lee-ə) is a psychological phenomenon involving a vague and random stimulus (often an image or sound) being perceived as significant, a form of apophenia. Common examples include seeing images of animals or faces in clouds, the man in the moon or the Moon rabbit, and hearing hidden messages on records when played in reverse.

Apophenia

Apophenia /æpɵˈfiːniə/ is the experience of seeing patterns or connections in random or meaningless data.

Think I might have apophenia, but it's a pain in the ass. I can't control it, and it comes at different doses. It seems like I notice coincidences between my thoughts and my surroundings sometimes. It's because of something else though, nothing to do with religion.
I suppose I Could have pareidolia as well, but it's moreso related to apophenia. Like I would just label some experience I'd have of apophenia. I see it more as a handicap though, as it can be annoying and distract me from other things. I suppose it can be interesting at times, but for the most part, it just sucks, and I see it as an illness.

reply to post by Jarring


Well here's the thing with that. There is no premise in either the Big Bang theory or Evolutionary theory that says that God doesn't exist. It is actually religious people who added that premise to the theories. Now granted, there are many atheist scientists, but there are also religious scientists as well. So in evolutionary discourse, there is nothing wrong with saying that God or gods exist, but since it is pretty much proven, one has to come to the conclusion that if they do exist, they used evolution to develop life. Same thing for the Big Bang.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Jarring

 

Well here's the thing with that. There is no premise in either the Big Bang theory or Evolutionary theory that says that God doesn't exist. It is actually religious people who added that premise to the theories. Now granted, there are many atheist scientists, but there are also religious scientists as well. So in evolutionary discourse, there is nothing wrong with saying that God or gods exist, but since it is pretty much proven, one has to come to the conclusion that if they do exist, they used evolution to develop life. Same thing for the Big Bang.

yeah, I understand that, but when most people attack a religion, it typically doesn't have anything to do with Big Bang theory or evolution. You're simply trying to discredit some idea someone has about something. You get what I'm saying about how it suggests existence is random? Like, you're not inserting any idea in to replace what they believe. You're just removing an idea, and expect them to believe in something else. Even then, most people will not pursue that idea, they just assume what it is like to be without the idea that is removed without any other answer to it.

there was a new scientific discovery of the possible location of the conscience unique to humans

And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

www.independent.co.uk...

Conscience
www.openbible.info...

Oxford prof. attempts to bridge gap between faith and science

www.technicianonline.com...

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Krazy,
I'm not trying to get in a fight with you.....but you really aren't getting it. A bear being stronger than us and being able to rip us apart is not the same as am all powerful deity that created us and lives in a different dimension than us.

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


And you aren't getting what I am saying. I am saying that the first concepts of gods were very simple (ie a group of people would worship a local bear that periodically terrorized them or something). As time went on and generations passed they would pass stories of these gods down to the next generations, usually orally. I'm sure you've played the telephone game as a kid, things change with each retelling of events. So it wouldn't take a large leap of the imagination to come to the conclusion that these stories would end up getting embellished with each generation. Rituals would pop up to try to gain favor with these simple gods. As the gods evolved and grew more and more powerful (not literally, but as the stories about them get embellished, they become more powerful) they started to gain more and more abilities to control nature. As these people went to war or traded, naturally their gods went with them and were either stolen by other people or co-opted to fit these other people's beliefs.

For instance, the story could start out that the bear terrorizes the group of people. A few generations later, that may have morphed to needing to keep the bear at bay, so they offer sacrifices. These sacrifices become rituals, eventually the rituals become more elaborate and naturally more power is attributed to the bear god. Eventually this god (or his functions) are stolen by another group of people and they apply their own powers, abilities and rituals to him.

At no point did I suggest that the idea of a singular all powerful god just popped into people's heads, I AM saying that it is very likely and probable that various demi-gods were created by primitive people to explain their surroundings. Through the evolution of these gods, the concept of a singular all powerful god arose. Even the idea of the god living in a different dimension from us evolved from more primitive ideas. You can see this with the Greek Pantheon. Those gods lived on Mount Olympus. This mountain was worshiped as a place of the gods. The Romans stole the Greek Pantheon for their own purposes, but when they conquered most of the known world they couldn't put their gods in a singular location. The homes of the gods had to become more fantastical to accommodate these new beliefs and spread of their religion. I don't know why you are failing to understand this, I'm not sure I can explain this any other way.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

And you aren't getting what I am saying. I am saying that the first concepts of gods were very simple (ie a group of people would worship a local bear that periodically terrorized them or something). As time went on and generations passed they would pass stories of these gods down to the next generations, usually orally. I'm sure you've played the telephone game as a kid, things change with each retelling of events. So it wouldn't take a large leap of the imagination to come to the conclusion that these stories would end up getting embellished with each generation. Rituals would pop up to try to gain favor with these simple gods. As the gods evolved and grew more and more powerful (not literally, but as the stories about them get embellished, they become more powerful) they started to gain more and more abilities to control nature. As these people went to war or traded, naturally their gods went with them and were either stolen by other people or co-opted to fit these other people's beliefs.

For instance, the story could start out that the bear terrorizes the group of people. A few generations later, that may have morphed to needing to keep the bear at bay, so they offer sacrifices. These sacrifices become rituals, eventually the rituals become more elaborate and naturally more power is attributed to the bear god. Eventually this god (or his functions) are stolen by another group of people and they apply their own powers, abilities and rituals to him.

At no point did I suggest that the idea of a singular all powerful god just popped into people's heads, I AM saying that it is very likely and probable that various demi-gods were created by primitive people to explain their surroundings. Through the evolution of these gods, the concept of a singular all powerful god arose. Even the idea of the god living in a different dimension from us evolved from more primitive ideas. You can see this with the Greek Pantheon. Those gods lived on Mount Olympus. This mountain was worshiped as a place of the gods. The Romans stole the Greek Pantheon for their own purposes, but when they conquered most of the known world they couldn't put their gods in a singular location. The homes of the gods had to become more fantastical to accommodate these new beliefs and spread of their religion. I don't know why you are failing to understand this, I'm not sure I can explain this any other way.

edit on 30-1-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

yes but the Greeks and Romans came much later and could have just been basing their "gods" off of the biblical God.....wouldn't you think?

Please, demonstrate how or why urbanized polytheists would have based their deities on some backward tribal cult from a desert. Show how Zeus or Jupiter derives from YHVH rather than Dyeus Pater, the Indo-European form for the Skygod Father.

In reality, the Hebrews adapted their godforms from the Canaanites and later from the Babylonians. Witness the myriad times that the word translated God is really the word "El" the chief of the Canaanite pantheon, or that YHVH Elohim is translated "Lord God" rather than Yahweh, Chief of the Gods.

UxoriousMagnus

yes but the Greeks and Romans came much later and could have just been basing their "gods" off of the biblical God.....wouldn't you think?

Um... no... First off, the Greek gods were most definitely based on earlier gods from other regions (Romans the same, but we know they were based on the Greek ones), but they certainly weren't based on the biblical god from the OT. If you look at many of the things attributed to God in the OT, you will see parallels to Canaanite and Babylonian gods

Yahweh (Canaanite deity)

Yahweh, prior to becoming Yahweh, the national god of Israel, and taking on monotheistic attributes in the 6th century BCE, was a part of the Canaanite pantheon in the period before the Babylonian captivity. Archeological evidence reveals that during this time period the Israelites were a group of Canaanite people. Yahweh was seen as a war god, and equated with El. Asherah, who was often seen as El's consort, has been described as a consort of Yahweh in numerous inscriptions.[1] The name Yahwi may possibly be found in some male Amorite names.[2] Yahu, an alternate pronunciation, may be found in names.

reply to post by WonderBoi


I have to ask:

What happens to your list of absolutes for "life as we know it" when some "form of life as we don't know it" shows up?

reply to post by Krazysh0t

For instance, the story could start out that the bear terrorizes the group of people. A few generations later, that may have morphed to needing to keep the bear at bay, so they offer sacrifices. These sacrifices become rituals, eventually the rituals become more elaborate and naturally more power is attributed to the bear god. Eventually this god (or his functions) are stolen by another group of people and they apply their own powers, abilities and rituals to him.

And, also there was the concept, "You are what you eat". So if a bear ate your mom or dad, to combat the grief and panic, one might adopt certain reverence and that bear may psychologically become a kindred spirit and/or a spirit guide, a totum.

Here is an example of that sort of belief in a Gnostic text, the Gospel of Thomas:

Jesus says: "Blessed is the lion which a man eats so that the lion becomes a man. But cursed is the man whom a lion eats so that the man becomes a lion!"

I think the concept of God comes from an even more primal fear though, something like thunder, lightning, earthquakes and volcanoes can rattle a people's resolve of superiority and independance.

My conception is that human consciousness evolved as a survival advantage. As such, it seems to have both individual and collective characteristics. As an individual consciousness develops it encounters or interacts with the collective aspects of consciousness and reacts at first with a sense of a greater and more cohesively whole "self" than it currently experiences that is external to its own awareness ("something greater than myself").

For me, all of the coding for these "conscious structures" are within our DNA.

Human consciousness also evolved within a very strict and limited social structure that had only a few positions of freedom at the "top" of the order, an Alpha male and female(s), several Beta males (that either assisted or stood apart from the Alpha) and the rest of the tribe (or troupe) acting within a certain concert and cooperative structure. When humans started to gather in larger groups, we attempted to apply the same innate (hard-wired) social structure on a larger scale, with considerable success and massive failures in terms of the individual or personal experience. We are programmed to listen to an authority figure(s) that directs us and explains survival strategies in the world.

As human consciousness continued to form we noted effects in the natural world (sun, rain, storm, wind, human fertility, prey animal availability, success of agricultural efforts, fire, and in some locations, waves, floods, earthquakes and volcanos) and assigned those to "entities" like ourselves only more powerful. Logically, the Alpha male (or females) would have been the logical individual to interact with these powerful entities, thus creating the first King-Priests, which in larger groupings (cities) would have administrative structures of sub-priests (Beta males and females), that slowly became invested with political power of their own, etc. etc.

Add a few thousand years and Voila! Religion.

Got news for you folks.


Anyone with an agenda, can make any "facts" look as though they are saying precisely what would be in line with that person's agenda.

Hence, a fertilizer company will sponsor testing that will come out with positive results when their products are used.

Also, The US Gov't is like to sponsor groups who would test the use of certain drugs such as marijuana that result in a a decidedly negative light on the use of that drug.


Frankly, when a "Scientist" writes a book or a study, that predicts the outcome in the title of that book or study, I question their ethics and practices to begin with.

Except that science demonstrates the methods by which it arrives at conclusions,displays the evidence, describes in detail the methods of acquiring the evidence, discloses the means of measurement, and disseminates these conclusions to others in the field who can replicate or disprove these findings on their own, time after time, day after day. When the evidence has been reviewed repeatedly and carefully, subjected to the criticism of peers, only then is the material published as scientific fact.

That is what places real science in a category above mere "fact making."

Attempts to equate scientific methods with mere belief-based wordsmithing are paltry, in my opinion, although sadly prevalent in today's society. Thus, we continue to fall behind most nations in the world in math and science achievement ...

... while we debate whether magic is real or not, who's imaginary friend can beat up another's imaginary friend, and which witch-doctorin' is really the best.

Sci of the bible code, source= www.divinecoders.com search term = "LHCNUKE" from GENESIS
Matrix Sample
l ye bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to the grave. 1 And the famine was sore in the land. 2 And it came to pass, when they had eaten up the corn which they had brought out of Egypt, that their father said unto them: 'Go again, buy us a little food.' 3 And Ju - Genesis

Term Index ELS P-Value T-Test
LHCNUKE 126739 1109 0.000000991031 HIGH
YID 126740 360 0.000002291092 HIGH
RUN 126743 122 0.000002303601 HIGH
IGO 126744 2 0.000002296823 HIGH
IRUN 126744 637 0.000001730095 HIGH
GOD 126746 341 0.000002301311 HIGH
GOG 126746 292 0.000002265688 HIGH
FISION 126788 328 0.000001159708 HIGH
FOR 126788 232 0.000002301491 HIGH
WIND 126794 776 0.000001733093 HIGH
CMS 126815 1298 0.000002265796 HIGH
YARD 126832 878 0.000001742318 HIGH
COME 126846 192 0.000001747402 HIGH
EDGY 126857 1100 0.000001738157 HIGH
FALL 126873 343 0.000001727465 HIGH
FIVE 126873 687 0.000001736021 HIGH
SOIL 126894 235 0.000001736642 HIGH
FROM 127004 399 0.000001716211 HIGH
NULL 127127 369 0.000001714692 HIGH
BLAST 127176 138 0.000001397964 HIGH
BOMB 127183 390 0.000001698049 HIGH
YELL 127189 1432 0.000001736220 HIGH
SAUDI 127632 614 0.000001396527 HIGH
FAIL 127808 1171 0.000001736126 HIGH
KING 129023 722 0.000001706610 HIGH
SWISS 129489 475 0.000001381935 HIGH
ITALY 129813 831 0.000001397337 HIGH
BARAK 130265 878 0.000001390681 HIGH
PARIS 130722 103 0.000001390548 HIGH
RUSSIA 137056 724 0.000001161400 HIGH
FRANCE 144112 858 0.000001172025 HIGH
PROTON 145593 537 0.000001166185 HIGH

Perhaps a fision nuke destroy a LHC and debris to italy, Paris France, Russia etc.