Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


i have to agree and say i don't think we are alone on this planet, we share with more then type of ET, look at the different civilization on earth from some of the first right up to modern civilizations all have met or seen ET'S. But thats just my opinion

reply to post by nugget1


In terms of catalysts, I think that this is a big one...

During 1948, Amazing Stories ceased all publication of Shaver's stories. Palmer would later claim the magazine was pressured by sinister outside forces to make the change: science fiction fans would credit their boycott and letter-writing campaigns for the change. The magazine's owners said later that the Shaver Mystery had simply run its course and sales were decreasing.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Shaver stories, of course, belong to a different genre, but given the fact that it was Amazing Stories that ran the Kenneth Arnold UFO sighting stories as well, it stands to reason that dropping the 'sinister forces' meme there would have further reaching effects. Besides that, I would estimate that the majority of the initial data obtained, at various levels, for marketing purposes, for example, would have begun through the subscription list of Amazing Stories, as well as the collection of data about UFO and ET interactions...

Snowball sampling uses a small pool of initial informants to nominate, through their social networks, other participants who meet the eligibility criteria and could potentially contribute to a specific study. The term "snowball sampling" reflects an analogy to a snowball increasing in size as it rolls downhill [9]

Snowball Sampling is a method a used to obtain research and knowledge, from extended associations, through previous acquaintances, "Snowball sampling uses recommendations to find people with the specific range of skills that has been determined as being useful." An individual or a group receives information from different places through a mutual intermediary. This is referred to metaphorically as snowball sampling because as more relationships are built through mutual association, more connections can be made through those new relationships and a plethora of information can be shared and collected, much like a snowball that rolls and increases in size as it collects more snow. Snowball sampling is a useful tool for building networks and increasing the number of participants. However, the success of this technique depends greatly on the initial contacts and connections made. Thus it is important to correlate with those that are popular and honorable to create more opportunities to grow, but also to create a credible and dependable reputation.

en.wikipedia.org...

...the Snowball Effect of such a meme would be pretty much viral by the time any serious studies were conducted.

Just wondering if you are all aware of how tiny the voltages are that act on the membranes of nerve cells in the brain?

It's a really interesting little system. The cell's membrane is resting at -70mV (1 microvolt = 1.0 × 10-6 volts; that's 10 to the negative 6). Then when an action potential activates the nerve, the membrane voltage increases to +30mV.

That's only 100mV, a tiny, tiny amount of energy.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Good call. But maybe more complicated and derivative of the thesis here is the link between Arnold, Palmer, and Maury Island UFO.

I have a great link or two for that, but my 89 yr old pop is ready to go shopping (he reads all labels and takes FOREVER to make a decision---God bless him. A fine man indeed, but can talk your ear off. LOVE him dearly)

I'll dig the Maury Island stuff out after our shopping trip. Not sure if Bybyots is still reading here, but he has some impressive knowledge concerning this angle.

EDIT: ^^^^Freaking WEIRD...Bybyots posts while I'm composing...sheesh...what?!^^^^

reply to post by The GUT


I like most of what he has to say, from what I have read, and don't firmly agree or disagree with any of it, I particularly enjoyed his essays on crop circles, and his analysis on the data involved in their study.

I was joking about the infamy, that goes without saying, considering the neck of the woods that he has ventured into and if you watch the clip you might see what I was implying by that. He doesn't really put his own opinion out there though, which, if he is approaching the subject scientifically, he shouldn't, and as I have already stated my own opinion, and which the excerpt from Revelations that you just posted also states as being Vallee's, it seems a fair assumption that elements in the US are involved in generating much of the information, in one way or another themselves, though I am unsure how thoroughly he checked the specific reports that he referenced to support some of his assertions, the Iran aspect doesn't agree with me too much.

I personally feel that the Military-Industrial Complex has a lot to gain from generating the impression of a hostile enemy of an extra-terrestrial war and would be concerned with projecting such a future to ensure it's own, future, survival. So, as I say, I don't have an issue with him per se and definately feel he adds dimension to the debate, but nor do I think that he is being entirely forth-right in some respects or laying himself too far on the line.

KilgoreTrout
I personally feel that the Military-Industrial Complex has a lot to gain from generating the impression of a hostile enemy of an extra-terrestrial war and would be concerned with projecting such a future to ensure it's own, future, survival. So, as I say, I don't have an issue with him per se and definately feel he adds dimension to the debate, but nor do I think that he is being entirely forth-right in some respects or laying himself too far on the line.

Basically agreed, Ms. Braniac. This discussion is about to get GOOD.

Yeah, I'm here. I'm subscribd so I don't miss a post.

Yes, that's right, KilgoreTrout. It's also important to note that Palmer heavily edited Shaver's manuscript to the point that it became a tome it was so large.

As noted in the WikiPedia entry on The Shaver Mystery, it was famous science fiction author Harlan Ellison and concerned science fiction fans that ultimately caused Palmer to close up shop on the Shaver Mystery.

They did the right thing and pointed out that Shaver seemed to be exhibiting all the signs of paranoid schizophrenia. That's particularly scary in this case, paranoid schizophrenia usually starts to become florid in one's early twenties, so poor Shaver was walking around like that for a long time. Bless his heart, what a hero, managing to care for himself at all for 20+ years like that.

KilgoreTrout

nugget1
There is evidence of earth being populated by more than just 'humans'. It's very old - petroglyphs , folklore, advanced civilizations, and it all came to an end. They died out? Left? No more contact, anyway.

I disagree that there is any such evidence. My opinion of course, but I have seen nothing at all to suggest otherwise just a great deal of cherry-picking and projection which necessitates ignoring much evidence to the contrary.

I understand your position! I am thinking of all the depictions in paintings and tapestries from the 1300-1500's of UFO objects, and all of the other artifacts from archeological sites depicting flying machines.
.Maybe it is nothing more than mans fascination with flight, and through this fascination we have modeled our technology. Or, maybe it's the other way around; maybe our current technology comes from recovering ancient knowledge.

Science is beginning to show some credible evidence for genetic memory. If you poke a certain part of the brain, you have an OBE. Poke another, and you see aliens. Take a drug...same thing. Shaman effect? Seems these 'memories' have been passed down for aeons....
I'm still waiting for the jury to return with a verdict....

Bybyots
Just wondering if you are all aware of how tiny the voltages are that act on the membranes of nerve cells in the brain?

It's a really interesting little system. The cell's membrane is resting at -70mV (1 microvolt = 1.0 × 10-6 volts; that's 10 to the negative 6). Then when an action potential activates the nerve, the membrane voltage increases to +30mV.

That's only 100mV, a tiny, tiny amount of energy.

I took my son to a 'family science day' at one of the local universities today, it was great fun, very hands on, lots of experiments. A couple of things reminded me of this thread about visual spectrums and the such like. But also, they asked for volunteers, and my son's arm was in danger of stretching all the way to the ceiling, so they picked him, as well as five others. My boy was given a jack linked to an amp to hold, a kid at the other end was given a jack from the speaker, then they all had to hold hands. The signal was then 'conducted' through them. They did it with lasers too, much the same way fibre optics work. This was all stuff that I have read and know about, but still, it is a thrill to see it in practice. Doesn't matter how much I learn, know, understand and experience, it's still magical and miraculous to me...

Which, is why, on so many levels the song that they chose to play, through my son, made me laugh out loud...

The GUT
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

Infamy? Could be. However, I must ask how much of his work have you read and how familiar are you with his accomplishments?

Vallee certainly has more depth than might be commonly recognized and a philosophical soul to boot. That's in addition to a rather daunting intellect. You might have more in common with him than you might now think.

He almost certainly has been compromised to some degree (more on that later) but he also seems to have reserved a part of himself that is--or at least was--willing to kick against the goads so-to-speak.

Star for you on this
Having read most of Vallee's work, including "Revelations" just last night, I don't see anything 'shady' about him nor any signs of 'collusion' with Aviary 'types' at all...

In fact, just the opposite, I see Vallee's outrage and disgust both at the manipulators and at how easily those in ufo 'research' have been manipulated...

Based on the reading I've done lately, I get the feeling that Vallee pretty much gave up researching the 'ufo' enigma (he hasn't written anything new since the 90's), either because he reached an investigatory dead end, or because he never really figured out a way to 'prod' the control system behind the enigma....

I can't think of any other reason that we wouldn't be seeing more recent updates of his work, except that he just hasn't discovered anything new to 'report'...

Well alright then,

I may as well make a pitch while the pitchin' is good, I suppose.

Now might be a good time for folks to visit my James Tilly Matthews thread.

It's about the first recorded case of paranoid schizophrenia.

Parts aren't bad and parts I am less than proud of, but the subject matter is especially pertinent at the moment.

Especially KilgoreTrout's contributions concerning Viktor Tausk's influencing machines.

Air Loom: The Curious Case of James Tilly Matthews



ETA: I am hoping that this will help to illustrate why I think it is important to visit the James Tilly Matthews story?

Shaver claimed to have worked in a factory where, in 1932, odd things began to occur.

As Bruce Lanier Wright notes, Shaver "began to notice that one of the welding guns on his job site, 'by some freak of its coil's field atunements', was allowing him to hear the thoughts of the men working around him.

More frighteningly, he then received the telepathic record of a torture session conducted by malign entities in caverns deep within the earth".

Richard Sharp Shaver

reply to post by Bybyots


Yeah, I've read all that, and other sources besides...and yet, given his well documented incarceration in a mental facility...Palmer's admission that he edited and rewrote most of Shaver's rambles...have you seen how many books there are regarding 'Lemuria' and the such like? Snowballs.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


You know, since you ask, no, I don't know all that much about Richard Shaver. I have been focused really hard on Maury Island and had not bothered to check out the scope of his full work. I have gotten a little taste, and I think that the guy was brilliant. I'm not surprised, as I happen to have ongoing friendships with two folks with paranoid schizophrenia, one from childhood, both are really over-the-top smart.

Anyhow, I certainly didn't mean to imply that Shaver is weak in any way, I think Palmer is the real asshole, personally. I'm glad that Shaver had the source of income and the creative outlet.



P.S. Remember Lemuria!: what a great title. I will!

reply to post by Bybyots


i have to agree

nugget1
I understand your position! I am thinking of all the depictions in paintings and tapestries from the 1300-1500's of UFO objects, and all of the other artifacts from archeological sites depicting flying machines.

It would depend on specifics, context and the such like, but look at Da Vinci, he was obsessed with manned flight, and if you read his notebooks he derived his ideas from observing nature. I kind of feel that if other painters were painting UFOs he, of all people, would have been aware of it and he seemingly wasn't...but he was aware of metaphors, which I think, in the majority of cases is what you are referring to. That an anthropomorphic depictions of celestial objects...extensions of the man in the moon and the such like, as well as word play. My favourite being comets, which in Greek means 'long hair', a reference to the comet's tail. So in some illustrations, the comet is depicted as a disembodied,flaxen haired women's head.

nugget1
.Maybe it is nothing more than mans fascination with flight, and through this fascination we have modeled our technology. Or, maybe it's the other way around; maybe our current technology comes from recovering ancient knowledge.

I very much doubt that it is the latter and certainly the former. Even given our limited understanding of our history in detail, we have sufficient information and data to be able to trace a clear path of discovery and technological development built up layer upon layer, with one thing, naturally, leading to another. There are no huge unexplained leaps, relatively few minor ones either.

nugget1
Science is beginning to show some credible evidence for genetic memory. If you poke a certain part of the brain, you have an OBE. Poke another, and you see aliens. Take a drug...same thing. Shaman effect? Seems these 'memories' have been passed down for aeons....
I'm still waiting for the jury to return with a verdict....

We have genetic memory certainly, it is what tells our cells what to develop into, there is also evidence that it can predispose us to certain illnesses and conditions, such as cancer and obesity, but there is no evidence that specific memories of a persons life time experiences can be passed generation to generation, although epigenetic memory may have some influence across generations. The human brain is awesome, best piece of kit ever, and it's capabilities are only starting to be revealed to us, but those capabilities require a complex set of interactions across many different regions of the brain. Those capabilities most certainly have been passed down through successive generations and their development has ensured our ability to survive and thrive, but they do not constitute memory in the sense that you are implying. We certainly store light periods over generations, which help in stimulating our hormonal activation, and set our circadian clocks, and it likely that those could also be linked in ways that would alert us to repetitive patterns throughout the history of AMM, as well as in recognising other forms of light related phenomenon...perhaps even dating back further into our hominid history. And, we can most definately use our brains to experience other realities, imaginatively or otherwise, as I have already stated, my brain is a time/light device. As I said, stonking piece of kit

Aliens are what we may see looking at petroglyphs and medieval tapestries but to assume that those who produced those illustrations intended that is projection. We have been cultured to see and expect aliens, our literature and media are drenched in them. In sleep paralysis cases, most, these days, if they have a visual to go along with it, will report a 'gray', prior to the 20th century, the common visual was a hag or crone. It depends much on what the imagination sources for infill...I'm not saying that there is nothing there at all, just that whatever is seen, unless directly or coherently viewed, is most likely to be filled in, particular if peripheral vision is involved in any sighting.

I'm sure you have seen this little test...

imgur.com...

But in 2008, Mark Williams and colleagues made a surprising discovery. Using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), they found that when people paid attention covertly to stimuli in the periphery, brain activity in the foveal visual cortex contained information about the stimuli. Specifically, they showed that the pattern of brain activity in the foveal cortex could reveal whether two stimuli in the periphery were the same or different.

How is this possible? The foveal cortex should have been blind to the stimuli because they didn’t occur on the fovea. Williams and colleagues ruled out a series of obvious explanations for their results, before concluding that information was somehow being fed back from the periphery to the foveal cortex.

There are many theories of how feedback works, but one idea they all share is that it influences existing neural representations. So, for instance, if I wanted to use my peripheral vision to identify an object, traditional theories would predict that feedback from higher brain regions helps by boosting the representation of that object, in the region of visual cortex that is hardwired to represent that specific peripheral location.

But Mark Williams and colleagues found evidence for a very different kind of feedback: one that doesn’t just tune existing brain activity but which instead constructs an entirely new representation, and at a location in the retinotopic map where, literally, nothing should be happening.

This leads to us to ask whether feedback mechanisms are doing more than just tuning and pruning. Could feedback instead be rebuilding our visual world? There are reasons to think this might be a good idea. Feeding information to the foveal cortex could help enhance our peripheral vision by running the sensory data through the equivalent of a neuronal super computer: the most powerful and accurate processor of visual stimuli we have.

neurochambers.blogspot.co.uk...

Lots of different, unseen stimuli, can effect what we see, or what we think that we see...

Lesions in the visual pathway affect vision most often by creating deficits or negative phenomena, such as blindness, visual field deficits or scotomas, decreased visual acuity and color blindness. On occasion, they may also create false visual images, called positive visual phenomena. These images can be a result of distortion of incoming sensory information leading to an incorrect perception of a real image called an illusion. When the visual system produces images which are not based on sensory input, they can be referred to as hallucinations. The visual phenomena may last from brief moments to several hours, but they also can be permanent. They are generally associated with other symptoms but occasionally are isolated. Conditions causing these phenomena include disruptions in the visual input along the pathways (retina, optic nerve, chiasmal[disambiguation needed] and retrochiasmal lesions) lesions in the extracortical visual system, migraines, seizures, toxic-metabolic encephalopathy, psychiatric conditions and sleep apnea, among others. The mechanisms underlying positive visual phenomena are not yet well understood. Possible mechanisms may be: 1) defect in the sensory input causing compensatory upregulation of the visual cortex, 2) faulty visual processing in which inputs are normal but lesions result in an inappropriate pattern of cortical excitation, 3)variants of normal visual processing. Of all forms of hallucination, visual hallucinations are the least likely to be associated with psychiatric disorders. For example most patients with visual hallucinations do not have schizophrenia and most patients with schizophrenia do not have visual hallucinations.

en.wikipedia.org...

Electromagnetic fields, or electric shocks, have induced specific hallucinations in people. Those who are exposed to them, even in laboratory settings, have caused people to complain about a feeling of people following them, talking to them, or watching them. This is not always an uncomfortable sensation. Some people interpret this presence as a malevolent presence, especially if it's coupled with a feeling of unease, but others say they felt an inspiring or comforting presence. Ghost hunters will sometimes say the reverse - that ghosts cause a high electromagnetic field, or sometimes that a high electromagnetic field will allow ghosts to appear. Nobody is sure, yet, what these fields do to ghost brain DNA.

io9.com...

According to Technology Review:
“If this happens in the lab, then why not in the real world too, say [researchers] Joseph Peer and Alexander Kendl… They calculate that the rapidly changing fields associated with repeated lightning strikes are powerful enough to cause a similar phenomenon in humans within 200 metres.”

So when lightning strikes nearby, it can induce fields similar to the ones created by transcranial stimulation. That means you could experience luminous lines and spheres, just like subjects do in the lab.

“As a conservative estimate, roughly 1% of (otherwise unharmed) close lightning experiencers are likely to perceive transcranially induced above-threshold cortical stimuli,” say Peer and Kendl. They add that these observers need not be outside but could be otherwise safely inside buildings or even sitting in aircraft.”

That makes us wonder when else naturally occurring electric or magnetic fields might be strong enough to create hallucinations. Far out.

blogs.discovermagazine.com...

reply to post by Bybyots


As I said, I like the fantastical stories so Shaver caught my attention, same way as your James Tilley thread did...I happen to be very partial to the ramblings of mad men. Plus the underground race narrative is as old as the hills - literally. The Idaean Dactyls for example...

In Greek mythology, the Dactyls (from Greek Δάκτυλοι "fingers") were the archaic mythical race of small phallic male beings associated with the Great Mother, whether as Cybele or Rhea. Their numbers vary, but often they were ten spirit-men so like the three Curetes,[1] the Cabiri or the Korybantes that they were often interchangeable.[2] The Dactyls were both ancient smiths and healing magicians. In some myths, they are in Hephaestus' employ, and they taught metalworking, mathematics, and the alphabet to humans.

The Dactyls of Mount Ida in Phrygia invented the art of working metals into usable shapes with fire;[4] Walter Burkert surmises that, as the societies of lesser gods mirrored actual cult associations, guilds of smiths corresponded to the daktyloi in real life.[5] They also discovered iron. Three Phrygian Dactyls, in the service of the Great Mother as Adraste (Ἀδράστη), are usually named Acmon (the anvil), Damnameneus (the hammer), and Celmis (casting). Of Celmis, Ovid (in Metamorphoses iv) made a story that when Rhea was offended at this childhood companion of Zeus, she asked Zeus to turn him to diamond-hard adamant, like a tempered blade. Zeus obliged.

Later Greek attempts to justify and rationalize the relationships of Dactyls, Curetes and Corybantes were never fully successful. Strabo says of the mythographers:

"And they suspect that both the Kouretes and the Korybantes were offspring of the Daktyloi Idaioi; at any rate, the first hundred men born in Crete were called Idaian Daktyloi, they say, and these were born of nine Kouretes, for each of these begot ten children who were called Idaian Daktyloi." (Strabo, Geography 10.3.22)

The Cabiri (Kabeiroi) whose sacred place was on the island of Samothrace, were understood by Diodorus Siculus[6] to have been Idaean dactyls who had come west from Phrygia and whose magical practices had made local converts to their secret cult.

An Idaean dactyl named Herakles (perhaps the earliest embodiment of the later hero) originated the Olympic Games by instigating a race among his four "finger" brothers. This Herakles was the "thumb"; his brothers were Aeonius (forefinger), Epimedes (middle finger), Jasius (ring finger/healing finger), and Idas (little finger).

en.wikipedia.org...

Kind of fits in with the reactionary technophobia/Air Loom aspect too, don't you think?

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Kind of fits in with the reactionary technophobia/Air Loom aspect too, don't you think?

Uhhhhh.

All I have on the brain now is the phratries and cults of ancient Greece, thanks to your quote. It knocked the Richard Shaver right outta my head.

What were we talking about?



Seriously though, what a killer chunk of text that is. It just reminded me that those people lived on islands where being an outcast is a whole different ball of wax. Ancient Greece would have been a tough living.

Yes, and at this point I think the thing that is most applicable here is Tausk's influencing machine thing. It is reminding me of Persinger's silly helmet. He can just wave the thing at certain people and they start to "experience stuff".



ETA: Yeah, it sure looks like you have found the ancient antecedent for the Cthonic-Techno-Dwarf meme. That was stunningly fast. Thanks, I picked up a lot from that and it caused stuff from a class a couple of years ago to snap in to place and extend; to where I'm not sure yet.

I'm not big on the renaissance (including pre- & post) paintings as offering much in the way of clues. However, I'm in basic agreement with ms. nugget that we have a body of historical content that commands our attention.

It's an "either/or," but a very pregnant either/or it seems to me. It's actually the same "either/or" that many of our cast of characters seem preoccupied with actually.

'Either' the vast historical record suggests actual contact with non-human intelligence, 'or,' we have a record that suggests consciousness by it's lonesome self is the most intriguing--and possibly revealing--question we face…and as such holds the answers to our greatest mysteries.

Now, back to the present. "Deep Throat" of Watergate fame suggested, "Follow the money." Good advice, that.

In the same spirit, I suggest that we "follow the intelligence operatives" as regards modern "ufology."

Coincidence becomes laughable, and strange--albeit mysterious--intent becomes palpable.

Close Encounters of the PSYOPS Kind Part I: visupview.blogspot.com...

(Superior blog, btw and, imo, worth digging thru.)

There's also a third possibility: Not so much "either/or" but all of thee above.

Regardless: Don't sell yourself short and fail to "follow the intelligence operatives."

It's kind of like that awe-inspiring ride at Disney World or Six Flags: You have to be this TALL to ride. Other than that, you're on the bench and full of emotional guesserology about what it might be like.

For what it's worth, here is the Ancient Aliens Debunked version of "UFOs in Art":



It's only 10ish minutes long and puts a great deal of the mess to rest.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


I wanted to follow up on where that dactyl thing took me. It reminded me of that video that Runciter33 posted about the European Witch Hunt and secularization and how there was this fear of people from the mountains. The Phrygians were from the mountains and they were the source of a lot of cult stuff in Greece, if I'm not mistaken. It also makes me think of Solingen Germany which is known for steel manufacturing which is also couched amongst mountains and foothills. Is it just me or do we all as a group often land on this iron thing.