I read today that Scientist believe the fuel in reactor 3 has melted down into the groundwater..

reply to post by wishes


I don't think anybody said Fukushima was clean and harmless...If so can you link to that post?

I think the point myself and others have been trying to make is that right now this is a local issue to Japan that is in no way affecting anything outside of Japan and the ocean within a few kilometers away from Fukushima.

It is a very serious disaster and needs to be dealt with. However at this time is isn't affecting me and I continue to each sushi regularly...

Heck, this isn't even affecting all of Japan yet...

reply to post by raymundoko


Well said..

Nowhere did anyone say it wasn't a very serious issue, and that nobody needed to deal with it. What people have been saying is that it's not the Life Ending Event that some places would have you believe.

Does that mean we ignore it, hardly, the place needs to be secured and cleaned up before something does happen that causes a much larger problem, but as stated a few times, every nuke plant in the world could melt down at once and it would still not cause the death of every man woman and child on Earth.. it would be bad, but not Extinction Level..

There's the difference between treating it like a disaster and treating it like a calamity, a disaster is something we can and should deal with, a calamity is mass hysteria run rampant.

Is so easy to just brush off concerns about Fukushima completely forgetting the explosion aerosolized a whole bunch of 'crap' including plutonium thanks to their MOX fuel. They are also running radiated water 24/7/365 into the ocean. To say Fukushima is 'local' is a misnomer. To think raining dangerous levels of radiated water in Canada is 'normal' is ridiculous. It will be YEARS before rampant cancers show up, it is way to premature to believe it's not as bad as some of us believe it is going to be - especially when they have no end in sight for stopping it all. Nuclear reactors are one thing, MOX fuel is quite another!

Because plutonium does not release very much gamma radiation harmful health effects are not likely to occur from being near plutonium unless you breathe or swallow it. Plutonium may remain in the lungs or move to the bones, liver, or other body organs. It generally stays in the body for decades and continues to expose the surrounding tissues to radiation. This may eventually increase your chance of developing cancer, but it would be several years before such cancer effects became apparent.

When expressed as the amount of radioactivity deposited in the body per kilogram of body weight (kg bw) as a result of breathing in plutonium, studies in dogs report that 100,000 pCi plutonium/kg bw caused serious lung damage within a few months, 1,700 pCi/kg bw caused harm to the immune system, and 1,400 pCi/kg bw caused bone cancer after 4 years. In each of these cases the dogs were exposed to the plutonium in air for one day.

www.eoearth.org...

reply to post by wishes


Fukushima Dai-ichi was not a "fast reactor" and therefore unable to use MOX Fuel..

There are currently only 11 Fast Reactors in the world, none are located on the Japanese Island Chain. (Correction there is one, but it's a research reactor nowhere near the Dai-ichi site)


Secondary Edit: Some sites incorrectly assumed that Fukushima was using MOX fuel because of the continued shipments to Japan from France of this type of fuel. The Japanese GOvernment has not yet approved general power plants to use this fuel, and it is limited to the JOYO nuclear research reactor which is a developmental design to see if they cannot make a Fast Neutron Reactor that is safer than the current designs used, they are also testing Thorium-MOX mixed fuel there as well..

(more clarification)

vkey08
reply to post by wishes

 

Fukushima Dai-ichi was not a "fast reactor" and therefore unable to use MOX Fuel..

There are currently only 11 Fast Reactors in the world, none are located on the Japanese Island Chain. (Correction there is one, but it's a research reactor nowhere near the Dai-ichi site)

edit on 2512014 by vkey08 because: correction

Secondary Edit: Some sites incorrectly assumed that Fukushima was using MOX fuel because of the continued shipments to Japan from France of this type of fuel. The Japanese GOvernment has not yet approved general power plants to use this fuel, and it is limited to the JOYO nuclear research reactor which is a developmental design to see if they cannot make a Fast Neutron Reactor that is safer than the current designs used, they are also testing Thorium-MOX mixed fuel there as well..

(more clarification)

edit on 2512014 by vkey08 because: more claification

I don't recall all the details of discussions and would much prefer there was no MOX fuel anywhere on the planet- but there are plenty of reports that say there was MOX fuel at #3 in some capacity. Government approval has nothing to do with anything - what they say and what's going on are rarely the same - they have no control or say about them, never have. Governments are controlled and manipulated, if they go against the grain they are taken out one way or another, they are NOT at the top of the pyramid, they're just the administrators.

How do you know, as a fact, there was no MOX fuel even on site contrary to many reports that claim otherwise over the past few years? And if France was shipping 'this type' of fuel to Japan, isn't that in itself also suspect? My understanding is some power plants used MOX fuel to make weapons, in secret and that's what is suspected at #3 in Fukushima. They seem to like to make weapons that will keep on killing for centuries like they've been unloading by the ton in the middle east.

wishes
Is so easy to just brush off concerns about Fukushima completely forgetting the explosion aerosolized a whole bunch of 'crap' including plutonium thanks to their MOX fuel. They are also running radiated water 24/7/365 into the ocean. To say Fukushima is 'local' is a misnomer. To think raining dangerous levels of radiated water in Canada is 'normal' is ridiculous. It will be YEARS before rampant cancers show up, it is way to premature to believe it's not as bad as some of us believe it is going to be - especially when they have no end in sight for stopping it all. Nuclear reactors are one thing, MOX fuel is quite another!

Because plutonium does not release very much gamma radiation harmful health effects are not likely to occur from being near plutonium unless you breathe or swallow it. Plutonium may remain in the lungs or move to the bones, liver, or other body organs. It generally stays in the body for decades and continues to expose the surrounding tissues to radiation. This may eventually increase your chance of developing cancer, but it would be several years before such cancer effects became apparent.

When expressed as the amount of radioactivity deposited in the body per kilogram of body weight (kg bw) as a result of breathing in plutonium, studies in dogs report that 100,000 pCi plutonium/kg bw caused serious lung damage within a few months, 1,700 pCi/kg bw caused harm to the immune system, and 1,400 pCi/kg bw caused bone cancer after 4 years. In each of these cases the dogs were exposed to the plutonium in air for one day.

www.eoearth.org...

MOX doesn't matter all uranium reactors produce Pu so even the none MOX reactors released Pu. I don't know why even one was so conceded about the MOX.

reply to post by wishes


MOX fuel can only be used in a Fast Neutron Reactor, and there is one at the Joyo Facility which is a research reactor used to develop safer and more efficient Nuclear plants, so it's not so suspect that France, the primary manufacturer of MOX fuel would have sold some to Japan for use in that particular (Joyo) reactor. Using MOX fuel in a NON-Fast Neutron reactor would not produce enough of a reaction to power a light bulb much less the turbines, it absolutely requires that faster Neutron bombardment. Knowing that, any "reports" that TEPCO was using it at Fukushima Dai-ichi would have been false, as the older GE Reactors cannot handle the fuel. (You would have seen a major league mushroom cloud over the plant the moment they tired and every living thing in a 50 mile radius would have vaporized, a slight exaggeration of course but you get the picture, not a smart move)

As far as fast neutron reactors there are presently only limited ones in use, two (plus one research) in the United States and 9 or so others scattered around the world, most are for research only as the design hasn't been perfected yet. (1000kw/hr plants)

reply to post by vkey08


No, they did reactor 3 was currently running on it and number 4 had unused fuel in the fuel pool eating to be loaded when the accident happened. This story is from before the accident I don't know why they would falsify that information. It even states TEPCO said it them selves.
www.reuters.com...
But again it doesn't matter MOX or no MOX Pu is still involved during an accident if the reactor is running or spent fuel is involved.

BGTM90
reply to post by vkey08

 

No, they did reactor 3 was currently running on it and number 4 had unused fuel in the fuel pool eating to be loaded when the accident happened. This story is from before the accident I don't know why they would falsify that information. It even states TEPCO said it them selves.
www.reuters.com...
But again it doesn't matter MOX or no MOX Pu is still involved during an accident if the reactor is running or spent fuel is involved.

It's actually quite impossible to run with MOX in the Dai-ichi reactors, they could have confused it with a generation mixed fuel that was used in those reactors, but not MOX, it is a rather easy mistake to make, I've seen it even in the manufacturing end of the fuel. Tepco was converting the reactor to burn it's own waste fuel, that is not true MOX, it's just leftovers that is then refined out again internally..

vkey08

BGTM90
reply to post by vkey08

 

No, they did reactor 3 was currently running on it and number 4 had unused fuel in the fuel pool eating to be loaded when the accident happened. This story is from before the accident I don't know why they would falsify that information. It even states TEPCO said it them selves.
www.reuters.com...
But again it doesn't matter MOX or no MOX Pu is still involved during an accident if the reactor is running or spent fuel is involved.

It's actually quite impossible to run with MOX in the Dai-ichi reactors, they could have confused it with a generation mixed fuel that was used in those reactors, but not MOX, it is a rather easy mistake to make, I've seen it even in the manufacturing end of the fuel. Tepco was converting the reactor to burn it's own waste fuel, that is not true MOX, it's just leftovers that is then refined out again internally..

edit on 2512014 by vkey08 because: (no reason given)

MOX fuel was first used in a thermal reactor in 1963, but did not come into commercial use until the 1980s. So far about 2000 tonnes of MOX fuel has been fabricated and loaded into power reactors.

As you should Know thermal reactors are slow neutron reactors.

In Japan about ten reactors are licensed to use it and several do so. These reactors generally use MOX fuel as about one third of their core, but some will accept up to 50% MOX assemblies.

Heres a PDF from the IAEA in section 4 they discuss the use of MOX in light water reactors.
www-pub.iaea.org...

But like Ive said multiple times now it dose not mater all reactors currently in use produce Pu by neutron capture.

reply to post by vkey08


They used a few Rods of MOX in F'Shima Daiichi Nr. 3 with afaik less
than 1% MOX inside.

MOX-fuel elements were exclusively used in unit 3 and only for the period of 5 months until the accident at 11 March 2011 /ANS 11/.

Source

reply to post by wishes


This is Bs.!

There was no Explosion that aerosolized MOX
or any other Fuel!

Nada!

You based your Opinion on unreliable Sources,
there is Zero Evidence of your Scenario,
you should use the nice Words: " in my opinion ..."!

In any case, our study supports previous findings that indicated that the environmental plutonium inventory in Japan has not significantly increased after the Fukushima nuclear accident.

Nature. com

Human0815
reply to post by wishes

 

This is Bs.!

There was no Explosion that aerosolized MOX
or any other Fuel!

Nada!

You based your Opinion on unreliable Sources,
there is Zero Evidence of your Scenario,
you should use the nice Words: " in my opinion ..."!

In any case, our study supports previous findings that indicated that the environmental plutonium inventory in Japan has not significantly increased after the Fukushima nuclear accident.

Nature. com

Convenient how all your sources (like Tepco) are the only reliable ones and any sources that say otherwise are condemned by you. You just admitted in a post you refuse to believe in any negative news, how is that supposed to help these discussions fact find. No wonder your posts are so argumentative instead of constructively adding. There was obviously an explosion, calling that "BS" is not appropriate and telling me to use words you prefer is ridiculous. Go after the ball, not the player! How many warnings have you had?

reply to post by wishes


For sure i don't believe in L. Moret, Arnie or anyone else from
the Pseudo-Scientific Community, lol!

They created so much unneeded Suffering and Pain with
their Bs-Stories that they should be banned!

And how many Warnings i got is not your Business


PS: i did not called the Explosion Bs, i think this is clear!

If it hit groundwater then we know what the steam is. You have a mini radioactive hydro volcanic eruption going on. It's erupting through the pool of sea water they are dumping on it. It would not surprise me if every bit of water dumped on these reactors is being flushed right out into the pacific on purpose. You will only see a small eruption from this at first and this is how it starts. You will have your naysayers (although there are few) but those are the type that would argue that no Tsunami is coming because they see no 100 foot wave even though all of the ocean disappeared from the beaches.

Fact is nay-saying is sticking your head in the sand until its too late. Or as Riddick puts it, just hide in the dark until you can't tell whats eating you. Whether this actually reaches China syndrome levels is dependent upon how much fuel is there to burn to the magma. It will be spread out as it burns through the ground and the ground water will no doubt spread it out and carry some away. So this is both good and bad. We will end up with an extremely large dose in the water but that wont been digging a hole to the magma.

In the end I am not sure how the fuel from the core will propagate. If it spreads out we might get lucky. I don't know. This disaster has reached an unprecedented level. At Chernobyl they stopped it before it ever got to this point. We are treading new water. If it did reach the magma it would cause a radioactive volcanic eruption. There is no ifs ans or buts about it. However that would take a very long time. Not sure how many years. The steam spewing radioactive material into the air is bad enough. The force of a volcanic eruption could send the material even higher.

I implore you all to look up china syndrome if you have not done so already.

reply to post by crazyewok



People should not be messing with anything that is capable of destroying the entire ecosystem. Scientists think just because they can, that they should. NOT true. There shouldn't be any nuclear reactors period.