Beyond OBE? Dissection of a Potential Accidental Shamanistic Experience

Disclaimer: This is not advice or instruction; I do not encourage you to drink to excess and smoke.

Hello,

I’ve talked about this before here but only mentioned it as an experience without given reflection or dissection and am motivated to do both.

The Experience:

I drink when I am happy, or I would drink when I was happy also when I did homework. I would unwind with scotch, specifically Oban 14 year given the preference. One night while writing for a philosophy class if I remember correctly … I over did it. I casually easily drank 80% of the bottle and when I closed my eyes I saw the outline of a place in what looked like neon light, when I opened my eyes I saw the outline of neon as well and upon blinking again despite knowing I was sitting in my living room I was also sitting elsewhere. I was sitting in what looked to be an Asian themed home with what looked to be rice paper doors open in front of me revealing a serene jungle scene. I was sitting in my living room but also when I opened my eyes couldn’t help but be in that other place. It was so much so that I was more planted in the other place than in my living room. What I saw was every bit as real as what I see at any other sober waking moment. I honestly thought I drunk so much I killed myself and it worried me, I took myself to the bathroom thinking about throwing up the alcohol despite not feeling sick where I stayed for a time debating it still seeing the other place having to focus very hard to see my home. Eventually I decided against throwing up as I could never stand throwing up and dragged myself to bed where I laid and went to sleep hoping I would not pass of drinking so much in merriment/folly.

Dissection and Reflection:

I later researched the phenomenon and found -very- few occurrences online of alcohol inducing that type of reaction in any account that I could find. I chalked it up to a potential NDE and went on about my life. I later developed a strong interest in afterlife research that lead me down a path that bloomed at shamanism. As a bit of background shamanism has spanned many cultures that are seemingly unrelated and has said to be the oldest basic beliefs in relation to life and the hereafter. I deduced that individuals stumbled upon the phenomenon and did their best to pass on the knowledge the best they could manage within the constraints of their language and preexisting cultural knowledge resulting in the cultural variations seen in shamanistic practices between different cultures. I decided a good course of action was to research various cultural variations and strip away the cultural influences to hopefully reveal the concept in it’s purest sense where I arrived at what I considered the basics (it was very interesting to research shamanism across many cultures and beliefs, I encountered the concepts in places I did not expect such as relating to the supposed experiences of the Norse Odin). The basics that I found to be relevant were there exists the world we know and “other world” or “spirit world” which are linked in a way. Shamans would cross the veil between this world and another for various reasons related to how their culture and individual handled the phenomenon.

One of the things I stripped away which I believe was a mistake was drumming but I will talk about that when I dissect the experience I had.

Things leading up to the experience:

-May have had sex prior to the homework, drinking and cigars that may have provided relaxation that was conducive to the experience.

-I was thinking in ways that seemed to cause me to feel like I was “think outside of myself”; I am aware that is an odd thing to read but it’s the best I can describe the feeling of encountering a philosophical conundrum and seeking to wrap the mind around it in a way to capture a perspective that provides a logical/rationale conclusion (which I succeeded at).

-I was drinking (scotch) which was not unusual for me when doing my homework as it helped focus and slow my thoughts down… What was unusual was the amount I had drunk as that night I unintentionally drank fairly heavily since I kept the bottle by my laptop and I felt no negative effects from the alcohol.

-I smoked quite a few cigarette-sized cigars (cigarillos).

-I was listening to a looping song… this I feel was relevant and made me rethink stripping away the drumming which was fairly common across many of the cultures I studied. (The song was played through headphones which may be relevant as it provided varying tones to the left and right ear). The song was a She Wants Revenge song “Take the World” via high quality mp3 not the link I’m providing to the song.

The Song:
youtu.be...

The experience:

The alcohol and cigars helped free my perspective I really felt like I was wrapping my mind around these philosophical questions that should have been far more challenging to a student than how I tackled them. I felt like I was not thinking like one may think regularly about something ordinary but more so like I was fishing for truth in a lake of information that I had access to. While discovering and typing my expositions I started to take apart/separate the sounds in the song. I began to feel like I was rooted in my body (this is unusual for me as I normally feel no such attachment/I have a high tolerance for pain and discomfort/really I don’t feel like I truly inhabit my body on a regular basis). I began to feel my body pulsate to the song but paid little mind as alcohol can have that effect, this progressed to feeling like my body was shaking inside it self an effect I was not familiar with. I was physically still but felt like my body was vibrating, shaking inside of it self. I lit another cigar and inhaled/exhaled in a relaxing manner; I felt free/lost in the melody and the additional stimulation of my sense of taste, smell, and feeling. I closed my eyes in enjoyment and saw the neon outline and encountered the experience I mention earlier. I have not had an OBE but from the accounts I have read this was not it, I was physically wherever I was and moved about the place in a physical manner much like I walked through a reality plastered on top of the reality that we know. I heard/saw/felt/smelled/moved about with my physical senses and eyes confusingly wide open (which according to my research OBE is not).

As I mentioned I previously stripped away the drumming from what I thought was the core of shamanism but I feel that was a mistake as it was fairly common across many of the cultures. Rhythm seemed to play an important though unexplained role in the experience, as I encountered it quite frequently as well as the drumming sometimes being accompanied by a rhythmic patting of the back.

Through my research I found I inadvertently simulated many of the factors thought to be a part of traveling from this world to the other. I found it was common for shamans to ingest/smoke substances which would help them break their perception free. The repeated rhythm of the song potentially replaced the drumming and patting which may have also helped enter the altered state. I may have also aided the experience by wrapping my mind around the philosophical conundrums/what felt like opening it up beyond what is required in processing everyday tasks.

Well… that is that… I hope I didn’t miss anything but that is the experience dissected and summarized.

-Thanks for reading

reply to post by Strayed


I will try not to be so confusing in my response, but because of the complexity of your experience, this may be something of a task. You have an understanding of OBEs. Know that when a person who feels that they are "out" of the body, are not "out" in a physical sense. You experienced bilocation of your consciousness. You were aware of the physical experience you were having in your room, but there was an energetic reflection.. a copy if you will 'elsewhere'. This 'elsewhere' is the reciprocal of the physical realm that we live in, the temporal realm. Here we experience space/time which has 3 dimensions of space to 1 dimension of clock time. Experiences in the temporal realm are in the realm of time/space which has 3 dimension of time and 1 dimension of clock space.

Space/time and time/space are reciprocals. I'll use simple math to try to help me here. 1/2 X 2/1 = 1. Reciprocals will always balance out at one. Imagine an infinity symbol shaped seesaw. On one side we have space/time (where you are now reading this) and on the other side, time/space (where we 'go' when we experience dreams/afterlife) The balance of these reciprocals (space/time--material realm and time/space--temporal realm) is motion. There is a theory called Dewey Larson's Reciprocal Systems Theory of the physical universe. In it, he argues that rather than simply existing in a universe of matter, we exist AS a universe of motion that is dependent upon the interaction between the temporal realm, (Larson calls this the Cosmic sector) and the material realm. I choose to stick with calling it the temporal realm as I feel it more accurately describes the area dominated by time, as compared to our physical universe that is dominated by space and matter, therefore the Material realm.

On 3d time/clock space... In the temporal realm, when we move through a landscape, which is actually a representation of our individual psyche (except when elements from the collective unconscious intercede into your awareness) we are moving in 3 dimensions of time and one of space. As an example... in the material realm, we move around from different reference points in space, from point A to point B and so on. In the temporal realm we move from different reference points in TIME, from moment A to moment B. When you stand still in the temporal realm, what you perceive around you is the your psyches representation of you, TO you, at the present time. When you take a step forward in the temporal realm, you are stepping forward in time.

"The physical body grows by the consumption of food, and so does the anima(soul, existing in 3dtime/clock space) but is eating "food for thought," what is termed in psychology as feelings (not to be confused with emotions). Just as "thinking" is a rational function to organize information in space, feeling is the corresponding, rational function to organize information in time. Because the body is normalized in clock time, and the soul in clock space, they evolve at different rates--which often may not appear to be directly correlated." -Bruce Peret, co-developer of RS2

That you saw an Eastern type of place, and were in the process of broadening the way you thought about different philosophy issues, this, to me, is indicative of opening your mind to new ideas, perhaps of the spiritual world, that are generally more accepted in Eastern theosophy over Western idealism.

The drinking and smoking definitely had an effect. If you were smoking enough, and depriving the physical brain of the necessary amounts of oxygen, it becomes very easy to make the switch over to the reciprocal side... this is why I think breathing is so important in meditative and shamanic practices. There is a technique that involves hyperventilating (that I do not recommend without thoroughly researching it first) that will allow you to shift your consciousness from the material to the temporal realm.

Bilocation is not an easy task, and this is coming from experience. I've had it happen a few times, but it wasn't because I was trying to bilocate. I was experiencing my goings on in the temporal time/space realm, and at the same time I was fully aware of my resting physical body in the material space/time realm.

I recommend for you, and anyone else reading this that's on a path of self discovery to visit this site and read the central information therein. Introduction to Magnum Opus

reply to post by joeyv23


Thank you very much for taking the time to reply in such a way,

Your response was not confusing but it was refreshingly the first time I've encountered an attempt at explaining the nature of the phenomenon so technically. I'll have to look into the theory and it's foundations more before I can form a meaningful perspective on it, but it certainly seems worth inspecting. Questions spring to mind regarding one form existing without the other, how it relates to other phenomenon and possible implications of such a theory being true in relation to "reality" and persistence, shared cosmic realities and an abundance of other curiosities but I'll research it before getting ahead of myself.

Honestly though the scene was alien to me, I didn't give much thought to the scene itself; I've always thought eastern scenes similar to the one I experienced to be peaceful as such didn't think much past that.

In regard to breathing, I've thought on and researched that as well. Are you familiar with Emanuel Swedenborg? He supposedly utilized a breathing technique to enter a potentially similar altered state. While I couldn't find his actual technique anywhere it did encourage me to experiment with different patterns, have you experimented at all with it?

Thank you again for your response, I will certainly take a look at the information you provided.

I gave the page and attached documents a good look, the theory of a reciprocal dimension seems on the surface seem some what logically possible but I found little supporting information regarding a strong foundation for the theory (I may have missed it?). I decided to further research the Reciprocal Theory itself and so far it's neither here nor there for said strong foundation.

Taking a look at some of the other things on the page... the presentation of some of it can be called interesting but much of the information at it's root reads like a structured belief system seemingly no different than a more technical (but not correct) bible. There are also some basic things that stand out as very…. baseless to say the least, such the suggestion life is the result of a stable combination of matter and antimatter…

It's possible my mind simply isn't open enough, but what I've read so far has not read like truth with a strong foundation or actual useful technical knowledge. Please don't take this as negative just a review so far, I'm still very thankful for your reply.

reply to post by Strayed


thanks for the thread, a fine representation of multi-logic principles overlapping time distortion, as it were. Things are usually what they don't seem, sometimes, although in this case many visits to the same place never bring you into focus all at once (which means nothing, filling the space).

You may have just popped into another viewpoint for awhile, having knocked yours for a loop. If the "theory" that all life is connected is true, then you just slipped into another's for a bit.

There is a very good technique where you get someone or some animals point of view, and then when you get it, you go immediately to another's point of view, then another, then another, etc., as quickly as you can once you can "see" through the others eyes. Practice at this and you can do dozens (if not more) a second, and then you get whole groups of point-of-view at once. Always end this exercise by "Being yourself" and then extroverting (taking a walk, moving around, lifting up things in the room, etc., something that sets you back in your environment again). I'm putting this out there on this thread because it may be one where people won't read it or read down this far, 'cause this one is pretty advanced. In fact I will hide it even more by putting a new first graph on my post to bore or confuse people away from it.

You may enjoy this story. I was once in a theater with two friends, watching the end of the original "Carrie". We were sitting in the third row, on the left side, in an almost empty very large theater. The ending, which you may know, was very serene and calm, with nice music and nice atmosphere, and I was actually leaning over with my arms resting on the chair in front of me (come to think of it that was the only time I've ever done that in a theater in my life). Suddenly, when Carrie's hand and arm sprung from the grave, I was in back of the theater, and I could see myself and my two friends all the way in front. When I realized I was "out" I went back in immediately, the entire OBE was about half a second. Fully out though, no doubt in my mind of that one.

Strayed
In regard to breathing, I've thought on and researched that as well. Are you familiar with Emanuel Swedenborg? He supposedly utilized a breathing technique to enter a potentially similar altered state. While I couldn't find his actual technique anywhere it did encourage me to experiment with different patterns, have you experimented at all with it?

I haven't but will be looking into it.

Strayed
I gave the page and attached documents a good look, the theory of a reciprocal dimension seems on the surface seem some what logically possible but I found little supporting information regarding a strong foundation for the theory (I may have missed it?). I decided to further research the Reciprocal Theory itself and so far it's neither here nor there for said strong foundation.

This would be because there is none. If I'm not mistaken, Dewey Larson deduced/intuited the theory, and it's so far away from the mainstream, that you'll be hard pressed to find out where he got his ideas from, unless you can figure out how to conjur up his consciousness in time/space and ask him.

Strayed
Taking a look at some of the other things on the page... the presentation of some of it can be called interesting but much of the information at it's root reads like a structured belief system seemingly no different than a more technical (but not correct) bible. There are also some basic things that stand out as very…. baseless to say the least, such the suggestion life is the result of a stable combination of matter and antimatter…

It's my understanding that Larson was attempting to work out a ToE, and while he deduced the reciprocal relationship of space/time and time/space, didn't go very far into explaining exactly what time/space is... which is why we have the continuation of the work, RS2 which deals more with the metaphysical aspect of our reality. As for the matter/antimatter thing, it will make more sense as you go further into learning the math and mechanics of the theory. Larson talks about what he calls "Life units" which would be each 'particle' of motion, that is the result of the combination of a 'particle' of anti-matter and anti-matter.

To give you my understanding of this... each of these life units, is Light. I am not speaking of the light that fights the dark in our dualistic matrix reality, but rather of the Light that is the life and consciousness of the intelligent infinity of which we are a part of. Each unit in the infinity holds within it, the entirety of infinity. This Light is still, but constantly shifting it's form in both the Material and Temporal realm, which creates the motion that we perceive. (Don't beat your brain up over this yet, it's one of the more difficult concepts to wrap the mind around)

Strayed
It's possible my mind simply isn't open enough, but what I've read so far has not read like truth with a strong foundation or actual useful technical knowledge. Please don't take this as negative just a review so far, I'm still very thankful for your reply.

I don't take this negatively, the information is well outside the accepted view of our existence, in fact Larson maintained (and I'm inclined to agree with him) that everything we were taught is backwards!

Dewey Larson
Somewhere along the line, that which is true is being made to appear false, because that which is false is accepted as truth.

It took me all year last year to absorb the information enough to even begin to start talking about it. HERE is a link to a set of papers that does a really good job of breaking down some of Larson's theories, and applying them to our existence. There's a LOT of alternative info here, my advice is to stay open mined and push through, even if something in your head screams "NO THIS ISN'T RIGHT", because that is a programmed reaction to truth that we all suffer from at one point in time. Again, because the premise of the papers is that mainstream science was intentionally designed to be backwards, to keep us ignorant, it could take some time for the concepts to sink in.

I recommend "The Uncommitted Investigator" first which is listed on that page, but not at the top, to give you an idea of the mindset of the author --daniel. He was a project employee of the Montauk Project, specifically the Pheonix Project that dealt with working on a chair taken from a downed UFO. I'm not saying everything there is right. I'm still learning the stuff myself, and there are some things that I've yet to verify, but if you give yourself a genuine chance with the stuff, after reading and rereading the info, the pieces will start to fall together and create a picture that is bewildering and exciting, and though it may not seem so now, (because our minds are already conditioned a certain way) is based in very simple logic.

You're welcome for the headache lol Enjoy!

Aleister
reply to post by Strayed

 

thanks for the thread, a fine representation of multi-logic principles overlapping time distortion, as it were. Things are usually what they don't seem, sometimes, although in this case many visits to the same place never bring you into focus all at once (which means nothing, filling the space).

You may have just popped into another viewpoint for awhile, having knocked yours for a loop. If the "theory" that all life is connected is true, then you just slipped into another's for a bit.

There is a very good technique where you get someone or some animals point of view, and then when you get it, you go immediately to another's point of view, then another, then another, etc., as quickly as you can once you can "see" through the others eyes. Practice at this and you can do dozens (if not more) a second, and then you get whole groups of point-of-view at once. Always end this exercise by "Being yourself" and then extroverting (taking a walk, moving around, lifting up things in the room, etc., something that sets you back in your environment again). I'm putting this out there on this thread because it may be one where people won't read it or read down this far, 'cause this one is pretty advanced. In fact I will hide it even more by putting a new first graph on my post to bore or confuse people away from it.

You may enjoy this story. I was once in a theater with two friends, watching the end of the original "Carrie". We were sitting in the third row, on the left side, in an almost empty very large theater. The ending, which you may know, was very serene and calm, with nice music and nice atmosphere, and I was actually leaning over with my arms resting on the chair in front of me (come to think of it that was the only time I've ever done that in a theater in my life). Suddenly, when Carrie's hand and arm sprung from the grave, I was in back of the theater, and I could see myself and my two friends all the way in front. When I realized I was "out" I went back in immediately, the entire OBE was about half a second. Fully out though, no doubt in my mind of that one.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-1-2014 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

I didn't consider that one due to the nature/feeling of the situation though it is an interesting alternate theory. I honestly came here to ATS to discuss such things, figuring there would be a large portion of the population here who has experienced such things/would be interested in things such as this or figuring them out though mainly I've been seeing more of an interest in "In my past life" this… or "Orb" that or "Reincarnation this…" etc… etc… It's all good, different strokes for different folks.

Interesting take, story and technique.

-Thanks

joeyv23

Strayed
In regard to breathing, I've thought on and researched that as well. Are you familiar with Emanuel Swedenborg? He supposedly utilized a breathing technique to enter a potentially similar altered state. While I couldn't find his actual technique anywhere it did encourage me to experiment with different patterns, have you experimented at all with it?

I haven't but will be looking into it.

Strayed
I gave the page and attached documents a good look, the theory of a reciprocal dimension seems on the surface seem some what logically possible but I found little supporting information regarding a strong foundation for the theory (I may have missed it?). I decided to further research the Reciprocal Theory itself and so far it's neither here nor there for said strong foundation.

This would be because there is none. If I'm not mistaken, Dewey Larson deduced/intuited the theory, and it's so far away from the mainstream, that you'll be hard pressed to find out where he got his ideas from, unless you can figure out how to conjur up his consciousness in time/space and ask him.

Strayed
Taking a look at some of the other things on the page... the presentation of some of it can be called interesting but much of the information at it's root reads like a structured belief system seemingly no different than a more technical (but not correct) bible. There are also some basic things that stand out as very…. baseless to say the least, such the suggestion life is the result of a stable combination of matter and antimatter…

It's my understanding that Larson was attempting to work out a ToE, and while he deduced the reciprocal relationship of space/time and time/space, didn't go very far into explaining exactly what time/space is... which is why we have the continuation of the work, RS2 which deals more with the metaphysical aspect of our reality. As for the matter/antimatter thing, it will make more sense as you go further into learning the math and mechanics of the theory. Larson talks about what he calls "Life units" which would be each 'particle' of motion, that is the result of the combination of a 'particle' of anti-matter and anti-matter.

To give you my understanding of this... each of these life units, is Light. I am not speaking of the light that fights the dark in our dualistic matrix reality, but rather of the Light that is the life and consciousness of the intelligent infinity of which we are a part of. Each unit in the infinity holds within it, the entirety of infinity. This Light is still, but constantly shifting it's form in both the Material and Temporal realm, which creates the motion that we perceive. (Don't beat your brain up over this yet, it's one of the more difficult concepts to wrap the mind around)

Strayed
It's possible my mind simply isn't open enough, but what I've read so far has not read like truth with a strong foundation or actual useful technical knowledge. Please don't take this as negative just a review so far, I'm still very thankful for your reply.

I don't take this negatively, the information is well outside the accepted view of our existence, in fact Larson maintained (and I'm inclined to agree with him) that everything we were taught is backwards!

Dewey Larson
Somewhere along the line, that which is true is being made to appear false, because that which is false is accepted as truth.

It took me all year last year to absorb the information enough to even begin to start talking about it. HERE is a link to a set of papers that does a really good job of breaking down some of Larson's theories, and applying them to our existence. There's a LOT of alternative info here, my advice is to stay open mined and push through, even if something in your head screams "NO THIS ISN'T RIGHT", because that is a programmed reaction to truth that we all suffer from at one point in time. Again, because the premise of the papers is that mainstream science was intentionally designed to be backwards, to keep us ignorant, it could take some time for the concepts to sink in.

I recommend "The Uncommitted Investigator" first which is listed on that page, but not at the top, to give you an idea of the mindset of the author --daniel. He was a project employee of the Montauk Project, specifically the Pheonix Project that dealt with working on a chair taken from a downed UFO. I'm not saying everything there is right. I'm still learning the stuff myself, and there are some things that I've yet to verify, but if you give yourself a genuine chance with the stuff, after reading and rereading the info, the pieces will start to fall together and create a picture that is bewildering and exciting, and though it may not seem so now, (because our minds are already conditioned a certain way) is based in very simple logic.

You're welcome for the headache lol Enjoy!

That would explain pretty well why I had so hard of a time finding a strong foundation, I'll try to keep an open mind though many holes seem to exist when looking from a perspective built on a different (subjectively stronger) foundation of knowledge gained through personal research/empirically based reasoning.

Regarding your understanding mine is some what similar if only said differently. My currently held theory is that we and everything else is energy (vs. light) and due to a complex interaction of lower and higher frequency energy the we that we know eventually came about through an evolution of consciousness related to an every increasing complexity of the interactions of sorts. It may certainly seem dispassionate but it doesn't depend on knowledge of anything too far outside of what we may know fairly solidly.

-Thanks again for your reply, and I'll keep an open mind