Hypogeum of Ħal-Saflieni history of a non human civilization?

Just mulling over this thread and this is my first ever post on this site but I was wondering about a few things....one of the most interesting things to me about the hypogeum is the archeoaccoustics found within...the walls resonates a frequency at precisely 110 Hz...why is this important? Well we know that certain sound vibrations alter the functioning of the brain when emitted within these walls...scientists monitored regional brain activity with EEG when exposed to different sounds vibration frequencies within these walls and found some interesting things...the findings indicated that at 110 Hz (the exact frequency the walls restimate at) the thinking patterns over prefrontal cortex shifted abruptly, resulting in the deactivations of the language centers and the temporary shifting from left to right sided dominance related to emotional processing and creativity....this was not found at 90Hz and 130Hz...so in addition to stimulating the creative and spiritual side of the brain, it appears that an atmosphere of resonant sound in the frequency of 110 or 111 Hz would have been “switching on” an area of the brain that bio-behavioral scientists believe relates to mood, empathy and social behavior. Deliberately or not, the people who spent time in such an environment under conditions were exposing themselves to vibrations that may have actually impacted their thinking. How ancient people knew about functional neurology, cognitive science, frequencies and how they impact our brain and marveled walls with stone chisels to resonate at the exact frequency our brain functions is beyond me but that is so broad will avoid it for now.
The connection I'm wondering about is where the skulls come in to play...now I saw many posts about hybrids but do you think the shape of the skull has something to do with this transformation in thinking and brain processes...did this knowledge impact their construction and incidently their skulls. Was the shape of their head caused or impacted by this brain transformation...am I making random connections because I'm bored...maybe Lol I have looked into the hypogeum, it's archeaoaccoustics, and it's effects but I wasn't aware that at this site they found elongated skulls...intrigued me because I was well aware of it's impact on our thinking pattern's and i wonder if there is a connection....like I said i am new to this site so go easy on me if this was a dumb post.....

-just a bored 20 year old kid

datasdream
While we are exploring the cross-breeding output possibility. Looking at that extended skull. Now imagine what kind of changes would have to occur to allow this skull form to be a normal birth. Need an expert on that before we jump to any conclusion.

Another question is who they needed protection from by building underground. Perhaps they only way to hear whispers from their gods was in absolute silence. The sound amplification in the caves would make an excellent connection for that OR if some of the caves were connected at one time would this make a way to do longer range secure communication?

the previous post was for you

reply to post by thenextgeneration14


Good Post actualy, cause there is a pattern with the frequencies found at the Hypogeum, they are also found in many of the above ground temple complexes on the island, all the same 110 or 111 hz frequency. There is a bit of a 'which cam first, chicken or egg' scenario where if the frequencies cause the brain to be more 'intune' or more developed which explains the advanced construction techniques. Then how was the complex made with accoustics in mind?

I must admit I have no real bearing on accoustics, I am always trying to find reasoning for most things in Malta and try to look at all options. What I want to see, but havent found yet, is any testing of the resinating frequency of limestone on its own which all the sites across the mediteranean have.

reply to post by dragonridr


Fascinating stuff S & F X 10
My Grand-Parents, one set from France & the other set from Austria, both sets spoke French. They would be about 135 if still alive. Both sets spoke of, The old Country." About having seen & heard of another species that would occasionally appear from, ' under ground.'
There is also a case in History about 40 or 50 years ago of 2 children were found almost dead, from underground, kind of reptile shaped heads and white-ish blue skin, but otherwise appeared normal. Kind of. Their eyes sometimes looked a, ' bit snake like or cat like. '
Both were in poor health as though having difficulty adjusting to top air and spoke an unknown language. ( Sorry... that was a quote from the couple who took them in )
They were apparently age 12 for the boy & 14 for the girl.
The boy died after about 6 months. No reason stated.
The girl apparently started to take on a normal skin tone and become more human after a time, married & had children.
The Gypsonville, Manitoba. Canada town should have archives somewhere and also read this on here before.
I believed it then, this only alleviates any doubts.

Thx for an amazing post. Can't wait for more

This is why I joined ATS. Comprehensive and well formed discussions of a very interesting subject. Thank you all for your contributions, its a refreshing change

Hi all, Sorry I know I have been posting alot on this thread. I am in need of opinions connecting or figuring a purpose with accoustics and regards to the Hypogeum and the temple sites.



As you can see the indented dots that seems to be on the facade of all the ancient structures in Malta and Gozo. Since I was a child I always thought of them as either decroative or as a clever way to move the stone by hand. As the indents are near perfect size for thingers and thumbs to latch onto and just like a bowling ball (where having the perfect fit makes the ball feel lighter)

But today I have a new theory, The acoustics?

The last few days I have been going through everything I ever had on the Hypogeum and the Sites and found something that may disproove (for me at least) the use of indents to give better leverage. Because of the Hypogeum.... As it was mostly dug out, it wouldnt need the same process purley for construction. So why are they there? for decorative purposes makes sense to me but after trying to learn about the accoustics, could it be that the indents provide the same effect as a modeern recording/sound room? Which tend to have triangular indents.



I finally managed to get pics up now! and something Id like to add, only certain walls have the indents how odd??

Maltese5Rhino
reply to post by LABTECH767

 

Thanks for the read, I believe all stories derive from something, just some may be more fantasy than reality. But its all we have nowadays, like a skeleton we can see what a site has become and know the stories that may be associated but the life it lived? Always hard to unearth.

The rumors are all over Malta with people trying to dig themselves a basement and then stumble on to graves or man made tunnels. Some proven and some not. Unfortunatly I heard of a rumor that there was a 'Mark 2' version of the Hal-Saflieni Hypogeum in Zejtun on Tal-Barrani Road (Lies close to the Hal-Saflieni Hypogeum and Tarxien Temples Wiki... Tas-Silg where a local farmer found over 3000 skeletal remains. Then destroyed them and the complex underneath to allow construction permits to rebuild his Farmhouse. This pattern of descruction in Malta is common because the country might as well be a museum with no housing or any where to work if everything was preserved. The Maltese Goverment knows this and selects certain projects to go ahead or to be 'buried' and litterally for that matter. Back in 1990s 3 more small temple sites were found within walking distance to Ghar Dalam but as so much funding was already placed into Ghar Dalam the order was to have 2 of the sites buried again after photo and sample collection and the 3rd has remained behind a sheet metal fence ever since. In the future there are plans to re-enquire into the sites all over Malta but at this time. Not going to happen.

That happened in Turkey too - and it was true . They discovered a whole series of underground cities carved into the sandstone. Some of these were large enough to house over 10,000 people at any one time. Local history has it that a spiritual character called Zoroaster (of the Zoroastrian religion) was a Noah like character who warned everyone of imminent catastrophe and that they had to build underground shelters. These buildings even had their own primitive airlocks (circular stones) and water supply.



The mystery is why these were built - anything from the Roman army to Islamic invaders to aliens. My theory was the idea of an asteroid impact in the ocean - enough to vaporise large quantities of water into the stratosphere). That would have created a rainstorm that lasted for at least a week, followed by a tsunami. Every religion has their own Noah character who either built a raft, an underground bunker or a boat to prepare for a flood.

reply to post by stormcell


Thank you for the Vid and the information I have heard a little about Cappadocia but havent been able to visit at all.



By the looks of the terrain, it must be quite harsh. High winds very hot summers and very cold winters. They might have seeked to dig underground for shelter.

I do beleive that something such as an impact to the mediteranean could have caused heavy rain for a perlonged period of time. The only problem I find with digging underground to protect from a flood would be that water flows downward. Meaning if the doors werent sealed tight, surly the underground cities would be flooded. Then again Cappadocia is over a 1000ft above sea levels in Places so this probaly wasnt an issue

www.environmentalgraffiti.com...

The hypogeum in Malta I am still searching for more clues to 'city living' as the place would be habitable if the population where dwarfs of somekind , I am an Average Modern Day Maltese hight of about 5ft6inches and I can barley crawl through some of the passage ways of the Hypogeum and all the open spaces where filled with nicley placed skeletons at the time it was unearthed. The Oracle room which is definatly where people could sit and comunicated some how as there are semi circular stone benches and some decent hight for one or two people to stand in, maybe like a spokesperson? Its a hard one with the Hypogeum as it was used by different people at different times and was added to and changed each time, some things left the same some changes to suit the new patroners of the place. Time after all is something to consider when they first dug into the rock all over the world, If it was because of an event such as flooding, aliens or other people to protect from they would have to have alot of warning before hand i would presume.

SLAYER has a fantastic thread that share's similaritys to this as it covers many interesting facts from south america as well as the deformation of the skull's and asks some questions that are pertinent to this thread, it also has the best artistic impressions and rendering of some of the ruins that we now see in south america and if they are correct show the true gradeur and excellence of the culture's of that long bygone period as the thread was shared with me and this is an important topic I pass it to you,
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also have you considered the ancient Nordic mythology of the Troll's a race whom lived underground, Trollheim litterally mean's trollhome and it is my understanding there is an extensive cave system in the region now mostly sealed.

reply to post by stormcell


It is a given fact the most ancient cultures accepted the concept of other races and not just spirits, this is a good page that is related to the hopi legends of there people being sheltered by another race called the ant people whom lived underground.

www.firstpeople.us...
www.mysterypile.com...
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Of course in many of these the authors have allowed there preconcieved notions to colour there page but read between the lines as there are some interesting clues.

I personally believe,
We are not the first intelligent species
There may be alien races that could have and may still visit the earth for there own agenda
There may have been a catastrophic occurance at a time of intelligent races living on the earth and some may have survived underground and adapted to there new environment
Somebody knows the truth and is sitting on it for there own control, greed and power reasons or maybe to keep us safe in our blind ignorance of a world they think we could not handle.

This transcript of the hopi tale is interesting,
www.freedominfonetwork.org...

Vibrational chakra atop the head, following a star by night and a cloud by day to a place of safety, Telepathic race's whom were different but understood one another.
The underground city or base is called an anthill but it is really interesting.

LABTECH767
reply to post by stormcell

 

It is a given fact the most ancient cultures accepted the concept of other races and not just spirits, this is a good page that is related to the hopi legends of there people being sheltered by another race called the ant people whom lived underground.

www.firstpeople.us...
www.mysterypile.com...
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Of course in many of these the authors have allowed there preconcieved notions to colour there page but read between the lines as there are some interesting clues.

I personally believe,
We are not the first intelligent species
There may be alien races that could have and may still visit the earth for there own agenda
There may have been a catastrophic occurance at a time of intelligent races living on the earth and some may have survived underground and adapted to there new environment
Somebody knows the truth and is sitting on it for there own control, greed and power reasons or maybe to keep us safe in our blind ignorance of a world they think we could not handle.

This transcript of the hopi tale is interesting,
www.freedominfonetwork.org...

Vibrational chakra atop the head, following a star by night and a cloud by day to a place of safety, Telepathic race's whom were different but understood one another.
The underground city or base is called an anthill but it is really interesting.

edit on 24-1-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

I dont believe aliens from another world were here however i dont think we were the only species to develop intelligence either. We were probably just the most violent of the species killing the others. There is to many stories of other races in myths and lore not to have some basis in fact. Remember there has been elves dwarfs and all other manners of creatures reported. We discovered pygmies living in areas easily be interpreted as dwarfs for example.And then there is the titans or giants of lore i see this aas very possible.Here at this site we have skulls which by our standards aren't human. Since we see no signs of advanced technology we can safely assume they didnt travel here from another solar system meaning they are terrestrial. Now how did they develop a mutation of Homo erectus or something else entirely?

reply to post by dragonridr


All extremely good points and the only logical conclusion based on the AVAILABLE evidence and its interpretion (which can be a matter of contention especially between geologists, archaeologist and there usual allies anthropologists but all three camps do not always agree and claim the other are wrong).
I do not think alien visitation or even similar life from elsewere is impossible just very unlikely (unless the univers is truly infinite in which case it is 50/50) but I do think that the presence of intelligent life on earth may have happend before and possible several time's but yes humans are the dominant species or are they.
An ancient chinese parable read "the most cunning animal is the one no man has yet seen", I also think our own race may have had many other branches and that it is not just survival by merit but that a random hand may have been dealt many times by natural and perhaps none natural catastrophy's.
What if the model of evolution to the large brained neanderthal was wrong and there was a vast missing segment were they where actually descendants of a devolved group of survivors with a limited gene pool whom interbred and suffered forced adaptation while seeking shelter from the hostile world they had found themselves thrust into in the only place they felt safe, underground, hiding from the sky were they could light there cooking fires were they could not be seen or attacked from the terrible sky, there have been several example of primitive structures believed to have been made by neanderthal and other earlier peoples such as three sided structure's with a suspected hide forth side so they did not need to live in caves as they could have been nomadic hunters unless something drove them into the cave's.
What if the neanderthal were actually the ruined devolved survivors of an even more advanced race than the cro magnon whom they may have shared a lost common ancestor with other than the badly pieced together parts of the accepted evolutionary tree (one which is based on evidence that if presented in isolation to each of the three camps may reveal schism's and rifts in there sciences that could not be bridged without one camp to the other accepting defeat, we know Now they could probable speak perfectly well and the long held belief they could barely grunt is totally wrong.

Scientist are human beings and we sometime bend the result's or tweak the theory to support our cherished view's and we are not alway's correct, sometime's doing this most unscientific of actions can result in a cascade of erroneous data that can in time result in undermining an entire scientific field., Remember what happens when the mis place a decimal in the calculations for a moon shot and these three camps are no were near as rigorous as a rocket scientist are they so how many mistakes that have built up have they made over time and how solid are the foundation of there hypothesis which is regarded as correct in the absence of competing theory's with strong backing.

When reason is not reasonable it is no longer reason.

StormyStars
There is also a case in History about 40 or 50 years ago of 2 children were found almost dead, from underground, kind of reptile shaped heads and white-ish blue skin, but otherwise appeared normal. Kind of. Their eyes sometimes looked a, ' bit snake like or cat like. '
Both were in poor health as though having difficulty adjusting to top air and spoke an unknown language. ( Sorry... that was a quote from the couple who took them in )
They were apparently age 12 for the boy & 14 for the girl.
The boy died after about 6 months. No reason stated.
The girl apparently started to take on a normal skin tone and become more human after a time, married & had children.
The Gypsonville, Manitoba. Canada town should have archives somewhere and also read this on here before.
I believed it then, this only alleviates any doubts.

The story comes from Woolpit England at around 8oo to 900 years ago.

The legend of the green children of Woolpit concerns two children of unusual skin colour who reportedly appeared in the village of Woolpit in Suffolk, England, some time in the 12th century, perhaps during the reign of King Stephen. The children, brother and sister, were of generally normal appearance except for the green colour of their skin. They spoke in an unknown language, and the only food they would eat was beans. Eventually they learned to eat other food and lost their green pallor, but the boy was sickly and died soon after the children were baptised. The girl adjusted to her new life, but she was considered to be "rather loose and wanton in her conduct".[2] After she learned to speak English the girl explained that she and her brother had come from St Martin's Land, an underground world whose inhabitants are green.

The only near-contemporary accounts are contained in Ralph of Coggeshall's Chronicum Anglicanum and William of Newburgh's Historia rerum Anglicarum, written in about 1189 and 1220 respectively. Between then and their rediscovery in the mid-19th century, the green children seem to surface only in a passing mention in William Camden's Britannia in 1586,[1] and in Bishop Francis Godwin's fantastical The Man in the Moone,[3] in both of which William of Newburgh's account is cited.

Two approaches have dominated explanations of the story of the green children: that it is a folk tale describing an imaginary encounter with the inhabitants of another world, perhaps one beneath our feet or even extraterrestrial, or it is a garbled account of a historical event. The story was praised as an ideal fantasy by the English anarchist poet and critic Herbert Read in his English Prose Style, published in 1931. It provided the inspiration for his only novel, The Green Child, written in 1934.

Wiki

Harte

Maltese5Rhino
By the looks of the terrain, it must be quite harsh. High winds very hot summers and very cold winters. They might have seeked to dig underground for shelter.

Nah, Turkey is quite mild overall. That's a big part of why early humans thrived there. Not that caves wouldn't come in handy in unusually harsh winters, cold mini-ice ages, but the people didn't have to dig out most of the spaces themselves; nature had already created a landscape full of caves.

The terrain is actually mostly the result of a particular sort of chemical reaction rather than physical weathering. It's called Karst topography.
en.wikipedia.org...

The bedrock generally comes from the sea floor of an ancient ocean. It's limestone, or some other carbonate type. It's a sedimentary rock full of dead coral, seashells, and the remains of lots and lots of other small and even microscopic type life forms that made little hard shells for themselves. Over many thousands of years, and with not much else going on in the area, the result was whole layers of this shell/bony material accumulating and being accreted into rock layers.

But sea levels changed and these layers ended up on the surface. Then water flows over them, as water is in the habit of doing. You get rain and melting snow and such. Water generally picks up some CO2 in its travels, but usually not so much. In this case the CO2 being transported by the water eventually encounters and chemically reacts with the carbonate rock, and one of the end results is actually that this leads to even more CO2 being available to break down even more carbonate rock.

On the ocean floor, the small amount of available CO2 would react and then be spent and not so quickly replaced. On the surface, flowing water brings new CO2 in all the time, and it transports loose material away. Or a puddle will fill with rain one day and the CO2 will react with the carbonate and be used up, and then the rest of the water in the puddle evaporates. Then it rains again and there's new water with a fresh supply of CO2 in the puddle, and in this way the puddle becomes a very big puddle and then a sinkhole.

Why are there caves there? There are practically always caves in Karst terrain. The caves start from those sinkholes. At typical surface temperatures and pressures, a high concentration of CO2 will of course bubble and fizz out of the water, but as the water cuts a path underground, the CO2 concentration can approach saturation and so be as high as in a typical can of Coca Cola etc. Flowing water will do quite a lot of excavation throughout a large Karst landscape.

So rather than dig it all themselves, people simply found quite a lot of the 'excavation work' already done for them by nature. They found caves and then did some additional work themselves to put the spaces to use.

reply to post by 11andrew34


Thank you for the informative post, and agree that the cavern systems where already in place before hand. Just was trying to debunk the idea of the underground dwellings being a direct prevention method against an apocalyptic event such as a flood. When as you said it makes sence to use an excisting cave to then 'work' on to make a more comfortable habital space.

Wiki Hypogeum...

The first level is very similar to tombs found in Xemxija in Malta. Some rooms are natural caves which were later artificially extended. The second level was only opened when the original builders found that this level was no longer adequate. This level is only ten metres below the surface

To my point where the hypogeum in Malta isnt a very habital space. In Maltese recent history (couple of hundred years ago) people still lived in the caves made by Karst as you perfectly explained.
The Amazing Cave People of Malta

Now the link talks about Ghar il-Kbir (Big/Great Cave) and how it was populated as recently as 1830s -

The population gradually decreased, but some inhabitants still remained there at the beginning of the nineteenth century. According to popular accounts, the British colonial government forcibly expelled the last residents in the 1830s and resettled them in nearby villages.

On the basis that most cave systems in Malta that inhabited people were on a much larger scale and had 'living' space so to speak makes me very uneasy to an idea that the Hypogeum was used for the same purpose. Especialy with details such as 7,000 skeletal remains being found. The caverns that had habital populations on the Island did not bury thier dead in the caverns themselves. More like the odd feeling we would have today if we placed a deceased family member in our own household. Doesnt really work unless cremation is involved. Which the next culture after the builders of the Hypoguem started to do so.

IMO all the sites across the island where connected as part of a network for all purposes and each site had its purpose, The Hypogeum as a holy/grave site where storage for food could also be used. Above the surface of the Hypogeum at the time could have been as 'built' up as it is today. Much like Rome at its hieght where you would have the city and then the underground catacombs. The people on the Maltese Isles could have been a similar culture thousands of years prior to the Romans.

Text Purplereply to post by Harte


I am not referring to your, " Green Children. '
This really happened.
Here.
In Gypsomville
Manitoba
Canada.
It was ONLY 50 years ago
It had been in archives of Newspaper and Television news.
It's in their, " Town Offices."
Which is akin to, " Hall of records."
The girl found is STILL alive
She recently was interviewed on a documentary.
I can't recall her darn name though! Pfft!
Write to CBC yourself for the original story, or the Newspaper there?
If you really want to know.
I think there is a video of them on youtube.
It would be about 50 years old yet is still a form of evidence.
I only repeated it, for a reply
you want proof...get some
& no. I said," Check their Town Hall Archives."
If you wanted proof.
I don't live there
I don't care if YOU believe it or not

It's the same story. Unless, that is, you purposefully blind yourself.

And you imagine, for some unknown reason, that I didn't look?

Sorry your story is bogus. Didn't mean to spoil your childhood or whatever.

Harte

LABTECH767
reply to post by dragonridr

 

All extremely good points and the only logical conclusion based on the AVAILABLE evidence and its interpretion (which can be a matter of contention especially between geologists, archaeologist and there usual allies anthropologists but all three camps do not always agree and claim the other are wrong).
I do not think alien visitation or even similar life from elsewere is impossible just very unlikely (unless the univers is truly infinite in which case it is 50/50) but I do think that the presence of intelligent life on earth may have happend before and possible several time's but yes humans are the dominant species or are they.
An ancient chinese parable read "the most cunning animal is the one no man has yet seen", I also think our own race may have had many other branches and that it is not just survival by merit but that a random hand may have been dealt many times by natural and perhaps none natural catastrophy's.
What if the model of evolution to the large brained neanderthal was wrong and there was a vast missing segment were they where actually descendants of a devolved group of survivors with a limited gene pool whom interbred and suffered forced adaptation while seeking shelter from the hostile world they had found themselves thrust into in the only place they felt safe, underground, hiding from the sky were they could light there cooking fires were they could not be seen or attacked from the terrible sky, there have been several example of primitive structures believed to have been made by neanderthal and other earlier peoples such as three sided structure's with a suspected hide forth side so they did not need to live in caves as they could have been nomadic hunters unless something drove them into the cave's.
What if the neanderthal were actually the ruined devolved survivors of an even more advanced race than the cro magnon whom they may have shared a lost common ancestor with other than the badly pieced together parts of the accepted evolutionary tree (one which is based on evidence that if presented in isolation to each of the three camps may reveal schism's and rifts in there sciences that could not be bridged without one camp to the other accepting defeat, we know Now they could probable speak perfectly well and the long held belief they could barely grunt is totally wrong.

Scientist are human beings and we sometime bend the result's or tweak the theory to support our cherished view's and we are not alway's correct, sometime's doing this most unscientific of actions can result in a cascade of erroneous data that can in time result in undermining an entire scientific field., Remember what happens when the mis place a decimal in the calculations for a moon shot and these three camps are no were near as rigorous as a rocket scientist are they so how many mistakes that have built up have they made over time and how solid are the foundation of there hypothesis which is regarded as correct in the absence of competing theory's with strong backing.

When reason is not reasonable it is no longer reason.

edit on 26-1-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

Dont get me wrong i dont think there aliens but i do believe wee were not the only intelligent species on earth either. We just sort of won the game in the end and killed everyone else. There are to many tales in history to presume that people just made things up i believe there were other hominids the stories were based on. Just like Dragons i think people saw some dinosaurs that managed to survive extinction at least until the knights got to them.