Ancient Sites & Monuments Aligned To "Ancient Equator"

A theory I heard once about Chicken gizard readers was that they were considered reliable because, over time, randomly choosing where you hunt prevents you from over-hunting any one area. So those tribes that followed a gizard reader burned through their food supply slower than those which did not.

Although I don't mean the gizard reader is the chief. In most tribes, "leadership" wasn't a top down thing. Different members made different decisions at different times, for different situations. You follow the war leader in time of war, the hunt leader in times of hunt, the chief when you need to settle a dispute, and.... the shaman when you are making a decision nobody else feels qualified to make. (He'll venture guess for you.)


If a shaman observes birds that are able to determine magnetic North, that doesn't mean that he's "using them to determine magnetic North". More likely, he's incorporating the subtle peculiarities of their behavior into his randomization algorithm. And it just so happens that he ends up with an alignment to magnetic north.

In short, I think many times, a shaman's job is just to be the tribe's "magic 8 ball"

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

A theory I heard once about Chicken gizard readers was that they were considered reliable because, over time, randomly choosing where you hunt prevents you from over-hunting any one area. So those tribes that followed a gizard reader burned through their food supply slower than those which did not.

Although I don't mean the gizard reader is the chief. In most tribes, "leadership" wasn't a top down thing. Different members made different decisions at different times, for different situations. You follow the war leader in time of war, the hunt leader in times of hunt, the chief when you need to settle a dispute, and.... the shaman when you are making a decision nobody else feels qualified to make. (He'll venture guess for you.)


If a shaman observes birds that are able to determine magnetic North, that doesn't mean that he's "using them to determine magnetic North". More likely, he's incorporating the subtle peculiarities of their behavior into his randomization algorithm. And it just so happens that he ends up with an alignment to magnetic north.

How would a shaman know if a bird can determine magnetic north?
If he had a compass, he wouldn't need the bird.
Without a compass, he doesn't even know magnetic north exists.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

How would a shaman know if a bird can determine magnetic north?
If he had a compass, he wouldn't need the bird.
Without a compass, he doesn't even know magnetic north exists.

Harte

I'm not saying the Shaman necessarily knows they are pointing North.

He just sees that something about their behavior is pointing somewhere. (And it so happens to be North.)

He has NO IDEA WHATSEOVER why. He just sees THAT there is a trend.


Modern scientists always want to know why things happen. Ancient people didn't always care why.

My point is, a shaman's job was to try and find order in chaos. He'd just observe and observe all day long, and if he saw a pattern - in anything - he'd make it magical/holy/special somehow.

We're talking pre-science here. Far in advance of any kind of "scientific process". No hypothesis followed by a test of hypothesis.

Maybe he sees the birds keep turning their head to face a particular direction (probably to calibrate their sense of direction).

He doesn't conclude that direction is North. (He probably doesn't even know he lives on a round Earth.)

He just concludes that direction must be special.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
My point is, a shaman's job was to try and find order in chaos. He'd just observe and observe all day long, and if he saw a pattern - in anything - he'd make it magical/holy/special somehow.

We're talking pre-science here. Far in advance of any kind of "scientific process". No hypothesis followed by a test of hypothesis.

Maybe he sees the birds keep turning their head to face a particular direction (probably to calibrate their sense of direction).

He doesn't conclude that direction is North. (He probably doesn't even know he lives on a round Earth.)

He just concludes that direction must be special.

C'mon, dude.
Have birds been observed "calibrating their sense of direction" since we began to seriously and scientifically observe avian behaviors?

Give it up.

Harte

www.scq.ubc.ca...

The mechanism is a kind of chemical in their eyes that gets activated by blue/green light. So, to use it, they have to turn their heads.

Birds are thought to use cryptochromes in some part of their heads to sense magnetic fields. Birds will often turn their heads from side to side a few times before flying off under normal conditions. When an abnormal magnetic field is present, they twist their necks as many as triple the number of times before take-off[13].

.....


Birds appear to be using a radical-pair mechanism, mediated by light sensing cryptochromes in their eyes, to sense magnetic fields and keep themselves pointed in the right direction during long migrations. Experiments have also shown that birds recalibrate their compasses once a day to insure that they are flying in the correct direction[16].

The point I'm trying to make, though, is that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Ethno-centrism is the bane of all archaeology. The presumption that ancient people must think how we think has prevented us from seeing many things that would have helped us to be less racist in the 20th century, and less holier than though toward other cultures in the 21st.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
www.scq.ubc.ca...

The mechanism is a kind of chemical in their eyes that gets activated by blue/green light. So, to use it, they have to turn their heads.

Birds are thought to use cryptochromes in some part of their heads to sense magnetic fields. Birds will often turn their heads from side to side a few times before flying off under normal conditions. When an abnormal magnetic field is present, they twist their necks as many as triple the number of times before take-off[13].

.....


Birds appear to be using a radical-pair mechanism, mediated by light sensing cryptochromes in their eyes, to sense magnetic fields and keep themselves pointed in the right direction during long migrations. Experiments have also shown that birds recalibrate their compasses once a day to insure that they are flying in the correct direction[16].

The point I'm trying to make, though, is that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Ethno-centrism is the bane of all archaeology. The presumption that ancient people must think how we think has prevented us from seeing many things that would have helped us to be less racist in the 20th century, and less holier than though toward other cultures in the 21st.

We have the same thing in our eyes.
I'll tell you about it later, after I snap my head northward a few times for "calibration." LOL

Harte

I think I've made my point.

It is clearly possible to determine magnetic north by means other than just a compass.

Did these ancient builders actually do it? I don't know.

If I were to estimate the odds, would I bet $1000.00 on it being so? No.

Would I bet $1000.00 against. ....... maybe........

But the odds are high enough to be worth looking into it (provided you are spending less than $1000.00 worth of your time.)