Husband of Pregnant Brain Dead Woman Who is on Life Support, Sues Hospital

A brain dead woman, who is 5 1/2 months pregnant, has been on life support since the end of November.
Her husband is suing the hospital to have her taken off life support.
He says it's what both he and his wife would want.
According to the husband, she said so.
But he doesn't say she said that while she was pregnant. That is a significant situation.
The hospital says it can't remove care from a pregnant woman because of the law.
The health of the unborn child is unknown - unknown if there was brain damage prior to the life support.
But the babies heart is beating otherwise the hospital would have declared the baby dead as well.

The woman is dead. But other children have been born to dead pregnant women whose bodies were on life support.
And, of those children tracked, they did fine and went on to live 'normal health' lives.

I understand the husband wanting the plug pulled on his dead wife .... but I don't understand him wanting
to pull the plug on his unborn child. The child is 5 1/2 months in the womb and he/she is alive.

The decision is between the husband and the law, but I thought I'd post this for discussion ...

Husband of Pregnant Brain Dead Woman on Life Support Sues Hospital

The husband of a pregnant, brain-dead U.S. woman on Tuesday sued the hospital keeping her on life support, saying doctors are doing so against her and her family’s wishes.

The lawsuit filed in Texas district court asks a judge to order John Peter Smith Hospital to remove life support for Marlise Munoz, who fell unconscious in November.

But the hospital says a state law prohibits life-saving treatment from being denied to pregnant patients. Experts familiar with the law say the hospital is incorrectly applying the statute.

Wow, that's a tough one.

I think if it were me, I would want to wait until the baby reached full term, have the doctors deliver via c-section (if natural birth isn't an option due the mother's condition). At this point I would ask the doctors to remove my wife from the support system.

Hope things work out for the Guy, must be tough.

Kallisti

reply to post by FlyersFan


Hmmm. Tricky one indeed. I've been sort of following this story, but hadn't read details on it.

As you said: "Why?" would he want to lose the baby too? Although s/he is probably likely to survive if taken by Cesarean Section and put in a NICU, what then? Does the Dad not want to have to raise the child himself? Perhaps it isn't his baby???

I dunno. Something fishy about this.

As for 'brain dead' vs 'dead' - I'm beginning to have my doubts about all that. I've seen reports that 'brain-dead' people who are 'organ donors' are often 'harvested' without anesthetic - but - do we know FOR SURE that the patient "feels nothing"?

Also, how did she 'fall unconscious'? I suppose I should read up on the case - to find out more.

S/F

reply to post by FlyersFan


Ahh, man..



Personally I'd let the baby go to full term.

What a sad situation to be in. I don't understand the father's way of thinking or reasoning. If I loved my wife and she was in this situation. I'd want something of her to have after I pulled the plug.

The child needs to go to full term. I am sorry but I agree with the hospital and the law. It is sick to me that anyone would want to murder their unborn child. Not talking about abortion. I am talking about this case. That child is all he has left of her. I seriously question this guys motives. If someone I loved was pregnant and brain dead and in this situation and it was my child I absolutely would want the baby. No idea how anyone can have the position that it's OK to kill the baby. This isn't abortion or about abortion. This situation is completely different.

But he doesn't say she said that while she was pregnant.

Of course not! I completely understand if you have a partner in a vegetative state that would just be warped to keep them alive forever because you want to hold on to them. I would feel selfish. I understand all that. I am sure most people do. However there is no way this woman said kill me and my baby if I am ever brain dead. What is this mans motives? He has no standing and the lawsuit will fail miserably. The judge interprets the law. Well the law is clear.

Is he doing all of this for publicity? Ugh I am half ranting. Maybe because I know what love is. Most people do not and have never experienced it although they will say they have. This man clearly has not. The law was actually signed in, in 1999 by G Dubya to establish a system to protect patients and hospitals both. Hospitals have used this law to deny care to babies as well as to enforce care to the unborn.

www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us...

Sec. 166.049. PREGNANT PATIENTS. A person may not withdraw or withhold life-sustaining treatment under this subchapter from a pregnant patient.

I wonder why. Maybe because shes PREGNANT?!?! Seems pretty clear to me. Skip down to Sec. 166.049 and read it for yourselves. They specifically put a clause into this law to protect the unborn from being killed. The law was put into place to protect the rights of those who are terminally ill. Before the hospital could pull the plug with no notice. This law forces the hospital to now give notice but also protects the unborn.

There are two sub-chapters on pregnancy so yes they absolutely took into account the unborn when they wrote this bill. If I am not mistaken he could petition another hospital to take her if he doesn't like it. Which is in the bill. If they did he could try this process again with them but I guarantee you they would come to the same conclusion.

I suspect anyone who is a parent knows the guy should let the baby live.

He may not want the kid at this moment, but going through with his wishes now is a decision that can't be taken back ... what if he changes his mind?

This story really makes me sad.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Since she's already well over five months pregnant the baby will be allowed to come to term, if only by legal stalling of this guy's case. Even in the very unlikely chance of a court ruling in his favor, the judge will allow appeals, which will take up the additional time and make the case mute. Hopefully the child will not have suffered brain or developmental damage.

wildtimes
Also, how did she 'fall unconscious'?

Suspected brain aneurysm.
They can't do an autopsy until this life support/pregnant thing is resolved.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Yeah, I read the linked article and saw that.
It says they were both EMTs, and familiar with end-of-life/life-support issues.

I made a thread a few months ago about how doctors who KNOW what happens all refuse life support if they're ever in that condition....
but, we're talking about a baby here - and I certainly am against "late-term abortion" or "partial birth abortion" --

and Texas isn't known for it's 'liberal' attitude.

I don't know. Hard situation.

This is such a heartbreaking situation. Imagine when this child is older and reading stories surrounding this case, how his or her dad was fighting hard to end the pregnancy. What a terrible and tragic thing to carry with you throughout your life...

I have been following this for a couple of days. I was going to start a thread but after doing a search I found that Windword had already done so.
Basically the husbad has no say in this case. His wife is technically dead. Her rights no longer supersede those of the child.

Who is footing the hospital bill? If the hospital is keeping the woman on life support free of charge, then fine. If the husband is forced into bankruptcy over this then not good.

SLAYER69

What a sad situation to be in. I don't understand the father's way of thinking or reasoning. If I loved my wife and she was in this situation. I'd want something of her to have after I pulled the plug.

Even if that something is a lifelong burden? I dont mean to sound cruel but practical here. It isnt cheap to take care of a child with severe neurological impairments. Especially as a single parent. I don't what the means are of this man. Maybe he's wealthy, maybe he's not but practically speaking your wife dying and then getting sacked with a completely dependent child for the rest of your natural life sounds like hell.

I know, I know, love and all that stuff but reality trumps idealism every time whether you want to admit that or not.

If they could show me the baby was fine and suffered no brain damage I'd happily fight for it and love it and raise it. If they told me the baby may have severe brain damage and we're only half way into the pregnancy my heart would want to save it and hold it and love it but my sense would tell me to let it go unless I had the means/money to provide the care the child would require. Which I most certainly do not.

thisguyrighthere
I know, I know, love and all that stuff but reality trumps idealism every time whether you want to admit that or not.

Well I can only speak from my real life experience as a father of two and whether they were impaired or not I'd love them and do my best to care for them no matter what.

To each their own I suppose.

thisguyrighthere
Even if that something is a lifelong burden? I dont mean to sound cruel but practical here. It isnt cheap to take care of a child with severe neurological impairments.

- We dont know if any damage was done to the baby.
- The studies from previous pregnant brain dead women show most babies were born okay and lived normal lives.
- If the husband doesn't want the child then place the child up for adoption. Our daughter is adopted. There is a waiting list a mile long for domestic adoptions. People want babies.

thisguyrighthere

SLAYER69

What a sad situation to be in. I don't understand the father's way of thinking or reasoning. If I loved my wife and she was in this situation. I'd want something of her to have after I pulled the plug.

Even if that something is a lifelong burden? I dont mean to sound cruel but practical here. It isnt cheap to take care of a child with severe neurological impairments. Especially as a single parent. I don't what the means are of this man. Maybe he's wealthy, maybe he's not but practically speaking your wife dying and then getting sacked with a completely dependent child for the rest of your natural life sounds like hell.

I know, I know, love and all that stuff but reality trumps idealism every time whether you want to admit that or not.

If they could show me the baby was fine and suffered no brain damage I'd happily fight for it and love it and raise it. If they told me the baby may have severe brain damage and we're only half way into the pregnancy my heart would want to save it and hold it and love it but my sense would tell me to let it go unless I had the means/money to provide the care the child would require. Which I most certainly do not.

No offence but I am glad you were not my parent!
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Doctors do not know everything. We all make mistakes but it should not cost someone else their life.
Quad

Quadrivium
No offence but I am glad you were not my parent!
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Doctors do not know everything. We all make mistakes but it should not cost someone else their life.
Quad

None taken.

So you'll take care of the child then should it be suffering from sever hypoxia frozen in state, staring at the ceiling, uncommunicative and being force fed through a tube?

I know adoption is a possibility but how often to kids like that get adopted? Serious question because I don't know.

I do know that the three couples I know who have adopted went out of country to adopt their children who do not have disabilities. The process was quite the ordeal and they chose to spend the time and money on a foreign born child because according to them a local adoption was impossible for them. Shouldnt they have adopted a child in this country if there are so many?

I don't know anything about the adoption process beyond what I've heard and seen from others going through it.

Is it really as simple as I give the kid up and some nice wealthy family comes in and takes care of it?

thisguyrighthere

Quadrivium
No offence but I am glad you were not my parent!
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Doctors do not know everything. We all make mistakes but it should not cost someone else their life.
Quad

None taken.

So you'll take care of the child then should it be suffering from sever hypoxia frozen in state, staring at the ceiling, uncommunicative and being force fed through a tube?

I know adoption is a possibility but how often to kids like that get adopted? Serious question because I don't know.

I do know that the three couples I know who have adopted went out of country to adopt their children who do not have disabilities. The process was quite the ordeal and they chose to spend the time and money on a foreign born child because according to them a local adoption was impossible for them. Shouldnt they have adopted a child in this country if there are so many?

I don't know anything about the adoption process beyond what I've heard and seen from others going through it.

Is it really as simple as I give the kid up and some nice wealthy family comes in and takes care of it?

Truth? I do not know anything about adoption.
If it were my child I would love and take care of them no matter the condition.
My mom and dad took a HUGE chance on me.
Her exact words to the doctor (who said I would be born a vegetable and she should abort me) were "I do not care if he is born a two headed monkey, I will have him!"
It's all part of being a parent. You have to take the good with the bad.
Children should not be like a box of chocolates. If you don't like the piece you have you shouldn't be able to spit it out and try another.
Quad

thisguyrighthere
I do know that the three couples I know who have adopted went out of country to adopt their children who do not have disabilities. The process was quite the ordeal and they chose to spend the time and money on a foreign born child because according to them a local adoption was impossible for them. Shouldnt they have adopted a child in this country if there are so many?

When we adopted, the wait for an in-country adoption was 10 years. We were open to adoption of any ethnic background. The only thing ... it was our first child and we wanted a healthy baby because we were new at parenting and didn't want to start out with special needs. We didn't want to wait 10 years for a baby.

Also, when we adopted, it was at a time that there were a handful of headline cases of judges giving toddlers back to birth parents ... ripping them from the arms of their adopted families and transplanting them back with birth parents .. even though the children had been legally adopted and with the adoptive parents for years. That was a frightening thought for us.

So we went to Bolivia for adoption. It was a 9 month wait. Our daughter was 9 months old. We would have adopted more children but it was too expensive. She was considered 'healthy' ... but she wasn't really. 1/5 of the children in her orphanage would die. It was an open air orphanage .. ants and bugs and neighborhood cats meandering through ... the children were covered in bug bites ... our daughter had double pneumonia and hepatitis, as well as other health issues, when we adopted her.

But anyways, to answer your question ... the wait in the USA was WAY too long.
There is a shortage of babies for adoption.

I say let the father/husband decide. Like his decision or not - it is his decision to make. He feels it's the right thing to do, obviously he thinks the baby is brain damaged - who knows what specific medical information he has or has been told?

The state is putting him in an even more impossible position. Say the child is born with severe brain damage? It's life full of pain and anguish. And then some would expect this father - who loves the baby so much that he would end its suffering at the cost of that weight on him forever, not to mention a lifetime of being judged by strangers - to just walk away and give it up his adoption? To be "cared for" by the state? At that point it's too late - there is no choice. Now there is.

I don't think he came to this decision lightly.