Afghan atheist granted UK asylum

reply to post by Bassago

As far as the overall impact of this, that's going to be the question. Seems to open the door for every person who wants to flee an Islamic controlled country. UK may have shot itself in the foot on this one.

If this man is truly an atheist...than he is most likely not to cause trouble. If all immigrants in the UK were atheist, you wouldn't be having immigrant problems.

Atheists don't go around forming hate groups and cause trouble with the native population.

So I wouldn't say they shot themselves in the foot with this...but more likely they did it when they didn't make it a rule for immigrating to UK.

edit:

Hooray for UK on this one...

Atheists don't go around forming hate groups and cause trouble with the native population.

I dunno, have you seen some of the people on this site?

As a "British" (and from now on I shall say that for all of time) I welcome anyone and everyone to the country who:

1. Has a legal standing
2. Is not here illegally (just hopping over to work, I don't mean asylum seekers - real cases that is)
3. Can care about the community and others around them regardless of race/religion/creed.

This man has been in this country from the age of 16 and deep down it might be 100% true, that living among others of different backgrounds has changed his world views and religious views; so good luck to him!

Quick question for windword

Next will be the homosexuals. What with Russia's new crackdown and Nigeria and Uganda both criminalizing homosexuality, there's sure to be people applying for asylum....and with the US normalizing homosexuality, it's sure to be an issue.

I know this must have just be me reading between the lines and the pills taking effect; but the term "normalizing" sounds like "its not normal and shouldnt be" to me - I am not trying to start a flame war dont worry, like I said its most likely me reading too much into it. If people are gay and they could be punished for the way god / rock / space monsters from the outer reachers / tree's made them then they, like anyone else should be protected

Quite - it is a dangerous precedent to set, because any Tom, Dick and Abdul could simply claim this, whether it be true or not. In fact, we could even open the flood gates to Jihadists looking for a way in - they only have to claim they are Atheists (how do you prove it?)

Bacon Sandwich ????

I think this is brilliant, for all of the reasons already stated.

In all honesty though, I'm actually surprised that this is being reported as an unusual event. I thought our asylum rules covered political and / or religious persecution, and as this clearly demonstrates, you do not need to be religious to suffer from religious persecution.

reply to post by thekaboose

I dunno, have you seen some of the people on this site?

I know what you mean...but trust me...there is a whole lot of difference loud mouthing over the net and doing it in the physical. People feel more brave because they are hiding behind the monitors, and sometimes they go overboard. But in reality....they would hardly lift a finger to hurt someone.

i can sometimes be rather aggressive verbally...and might come of as brute...but in reality I shy away from physical conflict, and would never attack anyone for any reason but for defending my own life or of those dear to me. If you let me be, you don't bother me.

I think most people you refer to from your ATS experiences feel the same way.

As a "British" (and from now on I shall say that for all of time) I welcome anyone and everyone to the country who:

1. Has a legal standing
2. Is not here illegally (just hopping over to work, I don't mean asylum seekers - real cases that is)
3. Can care about the community and others around them regardless of race/religion/creed.

I have nothing against your stance...and it should be the standard for anyone emigrating to any country.

Yay! I'm happy for this man to find sanctuary.
Canada is also another awesome country to flee too. There is more then enough space up here for many people.

thekaboose

Atheists don't go around forming hate groups and cause trouble with the native population.

I dunno, have you seen some of the people on this site?

As a staunch Athiest I firmly believe you have the right to believe whatever you want, providing you don't deny others their rights and it has no influence on the state. That's a world away from countries who arrest or kill people for not following a country's religious beliefs. Though Dawkins certainly doesn't do any favours. I'm more than happy to debate with people about it and hopefully win them over to my viewpoint but I'd never physically hurt someone for believing in a god.

Agree with everything else you said though - homosexuality was never an issue in most cultures until present day religions gained political influence. What two consenting adults get up to in the bedroom is their business and theirs alone - no one else should ever have a say in these sorts of things.

idmonster
I think this is brilliant, for all of the reasons already stated.

In all honesty though, I'm actually surprised that this is being reported as an unusual event. I thought our asylum rules covered political and / or religious persecution, and as this clearly demonstrates, you do not need to be religious to suffer from religious persecution.

edit on 16-1-2014 by idmonster because: too many words

Aye, all the laws were already in place, it's just the first time in UK history someone has successfully claimed asylum on religious grounds based on them not following any religion. Globally policies differ wildly as atheism is not recognised as atheism is not recognised in the original UN refugee convention.

reply to post by stumason

Quite - it is a dangerous precedent to set, because any Tom, Dick and Abdul could simply claim this, whether it be true or not. In fact, we could even open the flood gates to Jihadists looking for a way in - they only have to claim they are Atheists (how do you prove it?) and once you're in, off you go to Finsbury Park for a Jihad refresher course

The amount of crap you'd have to endure in the Uk from the local Muslims would deter most Muslims from claiming atheism. They harass apostates ruthlessly if they come 'out', even here. There's a pretty large ex muslim community hiding in plain sight in the UK. Having lived with the crazies their parent's religion produces they are generally coy and quiet about their apostacy. I've seen one documentary where a guy had stuff thrown at him by a car full of young men in front of the camera crew, after he converted to christianity. Car torched etc.

Alternatively, offer them a beer and a bacon sandwich with their asylum application form.

I regularly drink beer with Muslim mates and they're partial to the odd bacon butty. The Qur'an doesn't ban the consumption of alcohol, just getting smashed on it. Same with pork - they should try to avoid it, but if they're really hungry Allah will forgive them for eating it. Shock, horror - they're no different from Christians who range from fundamentalists to liberals. Maybe the reason you have so many bad experiences is down to your assumptions and attitudes?

reply to post by bastion

I regularly drink beer with Muslim mates and they're partial to the odd bacon butty. The Qur'an doesn't ban the consumption of alcohol, just getting smashed on it. Same with pork - they should try to avoid it, but if they're really hungry Allah will forgive them for eating it. Shock, horror - they're no different from Christians who range from fundamentalists to liberals. Maybe the reason you have so many bad experiences is down to your assumptions and attitudes

Well then they aren't following the koran: I have two copies in the house, have read it. Mind you they aren't supposed to go whoring or gambling, which seems to be the favored pastimes of the Muslims around Marble Arch.

Attittude comes from the experience of being repeatedly harassed by muslim men when living in London (as a young woman), Before that I honestly had no idea they were different from Hindus (both brown and ate curry, wore sarees etc).

Assuming that the dislike of a religion/group is down to prejudice and not experience is a result of PC mind poisoning. You should try being assaulted by half a dozen at once then tell me they have respect for women. Got constantly bugged by asorted Pakistanis and Turks for sex they have a nasty tendency to assume they can ignore a 'no' if you you don't have a man with you.

Islam leads to some nasty cultural attitudes. That footage of that apostate guy being attacked by Muslims is on youtube. Look it up.

reply to post by Antigod


Read Surah 2, Ayiah 173 and 219 then as they clearly state both can be consumed within reason - the more hardline claim that reffers only to if you're starving/dying of thirst, the more moderate claim they can be consumed but not to get carried away.

Sorry to hear you've had such bad experiences but also I'm not going to pretend I'm not disgusted by your labeling of Muslims and Sikhs as 'brown people who eat curry'. I have plenty of female friends who've traveled around the middle east on their own for several months at a time without ever being hit upon so tarring everyone with the same brush is very narrow minded. Just like every culture, the majority are respectful decent people who don't wish harm on others, but a vocal minority spoil it for everyone else.

reply to post by bastion

Sorry to hear you've had such bad experiences but also I'm not going to pretend I'm not disgusted by your labeling of Muslims and Sikhs as 'brown people who eat curry'. I have plenty of female friends who've traveled around the middle east on their own for several months at a time without ever being hit upon so tarring everyone with the same brush is very narrow minded. Just like every culture, the majority are respectful decent people who don't wish harm on others, but a vocal minority spoil it for everyone else.

As to the 'brown people and curry' remark, when I was sixteen this was pretty much my entire familiarity with anyone Asian, I'd only ever seen them on tv back in the eighties. Comment on how I thought then, not now.

Really? Single women walking around the middle east not being hit on? Violates everything every other white women familiar with Muslim men and middle eastern culture has said told me. I had a flat mate who used to bring home one after the other (god knows why she liked them, but she did) so I have a fair amount of experience with them on the street and personal. Mainly Turkish and Pakistani but a couple of Lebanese. Maybe it's just the sight of a white women with large breasts that triggers misbehaviour as thier behaviour towards me was less than respectable. Given the amount of people, non Muslim and Muslim, that I met working in my twenties I can tell you the Muslims really were the ones that caused 90% of the grief, and made up a minority of the men I met. Given I have a fairly huge sample size of men to work with, I think my statement 'Muslim men behave worse on average' is not due to a small number of misbehaving but a genuine observation of a behavioural trend.

Having said that not all of the Muslims were arses, just a disproportionate number. I only met one the whole 14 years I was in london I'd describe as pious.

A clue as to cultural attitudes to women is the prevelance of group offences. I suggest you do some research into the gang rapes rather common to assorted muslim groups across Europe. The higher the frequency of group sexual assaults the worse the attitude to women is with the men. Basically, you need to know your mates think it's okay to do this before you raise the subject. Europeans rarely get involved in group sex attacks because it's so unlikely they'll suggest it and meet a like minded soul.

The Koran okays sex slavery of infidel women, their behaviour probably has that as a root.

reply to post by bastion


Those Suras are abrogated by later ones that forbid alcohol.

reply to post by bastion


You should also probably google all the items about the rates of sexual assaults on foreigners as well as local women in Muslim countries, as well as the rape epidemic in teh Nordic countries where nearly all their stranger rapes are by immigrant Muslim men

However, getting OT. Last post on this subject.

during his time in England gradually turned to atheism.

Hah what? In 7 years, no, the level of atheism neither increased nor decreased so drastically.

At least he sticks to his convictions.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

An Afghan man is believed to have become the first atheist to be granted asylum in the UK on the basis of his views on religion.

The 23-year-old, who has not been identified, feared that if forcibly returned to his homeland he would face persecution for having renounced his faith.
The Home Office's decision to accept denial of the existence of God as grounds for protection could set a significant precedent in asylum and immigration cases. The application was granted before the hearing stage at an immigration tribunal.
The Afghan was brought up as a Muslim and fled the conflict in his native country. He arrived in the UK in 2007, aged 16. He was initially given temporary leave to remain until 2013 but during his time in England gradually turned to atheism.
His case was taken up by Kent Law Clinic, a free service provided by students and supervised by qualified practising lawyers from the University of Kent's law school along with local solicitors and barristers.
They helped him submit his claim to the Home Office under the UN's 1951 refugee convention, arguing that if he returned to Afghanistan he would face persecution on the grounds of religion – or in his case, lack of religious belief.

read more at theguardian

Well this is something I hadn't considered before however I have known as many others have that non-belief in many parts of the world is a death sentence if found out. Many in the UK may not like this because it could open a door to several million people to immigrate but at least they will not be bringing ideas of sharia law with them. The article explains why this wouldn't be possible in the US in fact non-belief in a deity has been an obstacle to become a citizen in the US this thread explains.

Well I applaud the UK if they give those oppressed a way to escape such cruelties.

while I somewhat agree with that it does still leave doubts in my mind. How many others can now claim asylum because of their religious beliefs (or lack of). And what sort of people are they? What use is someone to an already struggling nation if he's not a radicalised muslim etc but is still a criminally minded person? This is not necessarily the lesser of two evils.